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I'm experiencing something similar, but can't say I notice the fish being oddly shaped. More YP this year coming to feed than ever.
I'll be watching this post, as I'd like to say I've got "taller" YP, but I'm not seeing that. Bigger, yes, but seem to be well proportioned in general.

No toad trilling here in Northern Indiana. Temps too cold I think. Every day this week at sunrise it's been 37°F with the exception of Thursday morning, when it was 25°F.

Re: The salt bath during transport. How much salt will be used? (i.e. what % will the salt water be?)

Salt in the water for transport is completely different than using a salt dip to kill external parasites. You cannot transport them in water salty enough to kill external parasites, it would kill the fish for that length of time. You dip them in a 3% salt solution until they lose equilibrium, then remove them immediately and place in fresh water.

The salt "dip" duration could be as short as 30 seconds or a few minutes, but once they start to turn on their sides, remove them immediately and place in fresh water.

I would not use ANY of the water that they were in from the original BOW to put in the pond. Here's what I'd do if it was my pond.

Transport them in 1/2% salt solution using the water from the BOW.

Net them out and place in a tank of 3% salt solution that is the same temp as the transport water.

Once they lose equilibrium, dip net them out and place them in a 2nd tank that has your pond water in it, at the same temp as the transport water temp.

Once they recover, then use pond water to bring the water temp in the 2nd tank to pond temp, not changing temp more than 5 degrees in an hour. Make sure that there is plenty of O2 in the water. If you see them piping at the surface, you have to have a way to introduce O2 quickly. OR, move them to a 3rd tank with the same water temp.

I'd even go as far as having an aquarium water test kit and use it to monitor ammonia in the water that the fish are in if you are hauling a goodly number of fish - i.e. more than 1/4 pound per gallon of water. If you use O2, you might be able to go to 1/2 pound per gallon depending on water temp.

Thanks, appreciate the thoughts. I'll give it a try and post my results

liquidsquid has the bacterial decomposition correct. ""If you have aeration and add bacteria, but no flow through, aren’t all those nutrients just getting into the water column? Then what? Trading one problem for another - such as algae or some form of more plant growth.

Nutrients are trapped and will accumulate in a basin to grow some form of plant life. Where will all the added nutrients go??? It is a law of nature. More fertility = more plants. Fertilize your lawn grass, garden, or any crop and more plants will grow. Decomposing leaves adds or releases the nutrients bound up in the leaves.

Thanks guys! Life is good in the Hoosier state, the Livingston clan is doing well. This past year's maple syrup season wasn't the best, weather wise, but I had built a new high vacuum collection system over the summer and it allowed us to salvage what is generally being described as one of the worst seasons in recent memory. Oh well, that's farming. Hey Bill Cody: you can indeed make syrup from a hickory, but unlike traditional maple, walnut, or birch syrup, you don't collect any sap.... hickory syrup is made by boiling the bark and adding sugar. It tastes good, but the thought of needing to add sugar to make it sweet just sits sideways with me, so we've never made any. The HBG are still very much a big part of our pond life here on the farm, I feel like I've got a really good handle on what it takes to raise these fish without suffering the dreaded GSF apocalypse that so many seem to fear as inevitable.... Spoiler alert: it isn't! I tied into what I think was my personal best YP a few weeks ago, got it up clear of the water and eyeballed it before it came unbuttoned and splashed its way to Freedom. I hardly think about it now, except whenever I'm awake. It was huge, a trophy for sure. But I'm not bitter. Dang that was a big fish.

I believe I mentioned a year or two ago that we had purchased a sawmill. After owning one for some time now, I can wholeheartedly endorse it as a surefire way to use up all that extra free time that we all struggle to deal with. Scouting trees, cutting down trees, bucking trees into logs, skidding logs out of the woods, loading logs onto the mill bunks, milling the logs into lumber, and stacking the lumber for drying. Then you get to actually build the whatever-it-is you needed the lumber for in the first place. All kidding aside, I get tremendous satisfaction from being able to mill our own lumber. Very satisfying. If you're on the fence about buying your own sawmill, i recommend you just do it. I'm betting you won't regret it. And, it might help take your mind off that day you hooked and lost a new world record YP. Dang that was a big fish.

I think that just about wraps it up, I really appreciate the birthday wishes and I hope you all are doing well!:

I would dig the rest of the way, at 7' deep, very small chance of them burying anything or any kind of field tile or drain deeper then that, you may find the culprit, other then that, as I understand your situation, I am not sure what could be the problem.

draining it into a perforated pipe that daylights to a drainage ditch would simplify the effects it will have on your house structure and fotting integrity but thats not solving your pond leaking issues.

Good Luck! let us know what you find.

Totally agree with liquidsquid.

I deepened a little groundwater pond last fall and just dumped the heavy, saturated clay on the bank. It was so dense, that it was unworkable with the low HP equipment I had.

Went through there last week and that clay has been turned into loose powder. Where there were old toothmarks, you can even see how the clay clods have expanded through miniature versions of frost heaving.

IMO, if you have a pond that is only sealed due to a clay blanket, AND that pond remained dry over the winter in a freeze-thaw climate, then you may need to moisten and compact in the spring before the rains return.

Todd got back to me.

He's struggling right now, and has had some setbacks.

He'll get more information next week after some tests are run.

If anyone wants to offer support, send me a PM and I can share details with you on how to help out.

Is there a source for dolomite stone or similar available to you? lining the pond and inlet with a variety of sizes up to riprap may be a long term option as dolomite contains mostly magnesium carbonate and some calcium carbonate which will buffer the PH to some degree.
Not as efficient as ag lime, but may be able to sustain the buffer after initial treatment.

Thanks, I’ll give him a try!

Have the soil and water tested (inexpensive). Everything else starts there. Read as much on the forum as possible. Like most of the comments above.

According to Lusk, about 95 percent of all the eggs laid never get old enough to spawn. They get eaten. But, there a lot of eggs.

I just responded in your old thread, but now I see you have gone to Plan B!

Are the sides of the pond also cut down into bedrock, or are they unconsolidated material? Concrete block walls are not great at resisting lateral forces if there is water-saturated, unconsolidated material on the outside of the wall is trying to push into the pond.

Of course, the water in the pond will somewhat help resist the external lateral force. Will your pond usually remain full, or will the water level cycle up and down?

Is there any chance that the bedrock itself could be a seal for your pond? Even if there are natural fractures or a visible joint pattern in the bedrock, sometimes those cracks can be "blind", and not connect to any significant additional void spaces.

Can you drill into the bedrock with a hammer drill and a masonry bit? If so, rebar drilled into the bedrock that also extends up into your concrete pours would make an exceedingly strong foundation.

There are several "construction guys" in the forum. Hopefully some of them also have some expertise in concrete foundations to answer your specific questions.

Good luck on finishing your pond utilizing Plan B!

Sorry your bentonite application probably won't work!

Time to think outside of the box.

If you think you can seal the bottom effectively, then maybe try a pond liner on vertical sides? If you cut your sides vertical, you could have a little more pond volume within your restricted space.

You could tuck the pond liner into a trench in the pond bottom and then backfill to anchor it. I think it would be very unlikely to get punctured since no animals or humans would be able to effectively put weight on it.


Alternatively, I have seen applications of cement modified soil. However, that material was used for erosion control in emergency spillways subject to erosive water flows. I have not personally seen it used in applications where perfect sealing is required.

I have attached an engineering paper from my files to give you a little more information if you have to go the "Cement Modified Soil" route.

chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://secement.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/EB242.pdf

Sorry to hear about your fish kill.

Big rains can cause fish kills by suddenly altering the chemistry of your pond water.

However, in your case, I think it was probably the cold rainwater that did the damage. Your pond was probably just now warm enough to get a nice thermal stratification established. The warm, oxygenated water was on top, and there was cold, low-oxygen water at the bottom of your pond.

The cold rainwater was denser than your warm water on top, and perhaps even colder (and denser) than your bottom water. This may have caused some partial to complete turnover of your pond water. Your fish were then subjected to a big temperature shock, plus were exposed to low-oxygen water if all of your bottom water came up.

One solution (beforehand) is to have some aeration at your pond. If you have a much deeper column of oxygenated water, then the big rain event is not quite so disruptive.

I do NOT know what you can do right now to benefit your remaining fish. Hopefully, one of the experts can give you some advice.

Good luck getting the rest of your fish through this stress period!

Happy birthday Theo dude!

Happy spring, all!

The system that I inquired for guidance on last year is back up and running this season! Thanks again for everyone who helped me think through that.

[img]https://photos.app.goo.gl/WBURwXt38Jbf9zpT9[/img]

As I mentioned at the end of that thread (but never got around to trying late last summer), I'd like to try expanding the setup a bit to two diffusers.

To recap:

I started pretty small & simple - a single 9" diffuser on 50 feet of 3/8" airline, powered by the HIBLOW HP-60. HIBLOW specs say this puts out 60lpm and 2.13 PSI.

The Matala diffuser lists air inflow range as 0.88 to 3.53 CFM, which converts to 24-98lpm.

I'd like to add a 2nd diffuser, towards the other side of the pond.

Ideally I'd like to go ~75-100 feet with the 2nd line. Is 3/8" still Ok for this?

And, more generally - will I be bumping up against the lower end of the diffusers' inflow range?


Any other concerns / issues with this plan?

I stocked something similar just under a year ago. I spot minnows daily, a few catfish have started coming up to feed, and last week, I saw a school of bass for the first time, which got me really excited.

That's a great thread ewest!

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Lots of people's ideas at work there.

I’m testing the American Feeder now. My two TH are 15 and 9 years old all original parts. Until my AF is at least that old it’s hard to fairly compare.

Not to hijack but my point is this cat-about the same size you mentioned-will eat about anything it wants. 6-9" BG are not out of reach...LMB up to 12-13" are a good meal. Those 12" size LMB are controlling excess BG, the ones that make it through are the ones that will achieve great sizes. Be mindful of the size and number of CC in the pond-especially at 1/3 acre.

Anderson says they stock 2.5" in spring in new production ponds and have excellent results with reproduction that year.
Now, this is obviously without predation, so take that into account.

I would leave the aerators running.

Another way to mix it is to put a tote on a trailer behind an ATV. Fill it with water,dump in a bag or two of alum. Mix with a canoe paddle use a gas powered pump with a 1" suction hose and outlet hose that has a nozzle on the end. He can reach out quite a ways with that. They make brass "sweeper" nozzles that fit on a 1" hose. Repeat until the alum is gone.

Watch the pH of the water, if it drops too much, have a bag or three of hydrated lime to mix in the tote once you get all the alum out of it to spray on the pond.

Typically it's a 2:1 ratio for applying alum and hydrated lime. i.e. 300# alum to 150# hydrated lime per ac/ft water.

Hi Mainer,

I too am in Maine, midcoast, and looking to build a pond in our backyard. Just getting started though, having done the research to buy a 2 ton excavator and should have that soon. Now need to turn to how to actually dig the thing.

First though, I'm wondering if you'd share your notes on permitting and regulations,
I'm told that, as I'm not near (150' I believe) a designated wetland than I do not need a permit.

Also, I'm wondering if I'm going to find clay in the area we're looking to dig, it has standing water often but that could just be where the shale is near the surface, no? Is clay a common material found underlying the ground cover in Maine? Are you seeing a lot of clay where you're digging or is mostly shale?

And, if there is no clay would this work anyway? Can you dig down into shale and have it hold or at least retain water?


Thanks,
KWL