*sigh* Yes, I AM going to go there. The reason behind my post was that I told you to put them in shallow water way back then. If you just want to give credit to people that recently told you that, and that is fine, I just wanted to point out that Brian and Matt weren't the first to tell you that.

Look at Page 1, 8/17/14 at 11:36 am
Look at Page 24, post #515398, #515422, #515442.
Look at Page 25 multiple posts

There is a reason why a number of the pond professionals that are paid to give advice are not posting on the forum. Greg Grimes was the first one that I remember that stopped posting. Many times the people here want to get validation for what they think will work and tend to dismiss things if what they hear is not what they want to hear. I am not saying that applies to you, I am saying that it happens here at least a few times a year. I know that spending time on here doesn't generate enough income for the time spent and that many pond professionals would rather put there time into generating income than giving away free information. How many other pond professionals are here posting? I can think of one, Bill Cody. Even Bob Lusk rarely posts here. Sue Cruz from Vertex hasn't posted in years, Rex hasn't posted in a long while, etc. Many pond professionals are now blogging and doing Facebook. Reason? They can generate income from that, they cannot generate income from posting on here.

As for being paid to come out there, that is correct. Would you come here to cook for free? If you remember, I offered to come out there to do the install and placement of the diffusers for the winter aeration, and if what I proposed didn't work, then you didn't have to pay for my time and travel expenses. You didn't take me up on that offer. Yes, I wanted you to buy the materials. I did NOT say that I wouldn't come out there to do the install for free (and only pay for my time/travel if it didn't work) if you didn't purchase them from me.

No, I am not on here to generate customers, I am doing this because I like to help people. The customers that I generate from this forum is less than 1% of my business. If I look at it strictly from a business standpoint, I should stop posting, moderating and reading posts because it is a huge time waster and income loser when it comes down to time spent vs. income realized. I advertise on here because if I didn't I would have to be very careful in what I post so I don't refer to customers, or the business. It is just easier to pay the advertising fee and not have to keep editing what I type.

I'm not saying the pipes don't work, I AM saying that having the diffusers shallower for the winter is what people need to do for winter aeration. I've been saying that from the very beginning. After a while, I tend to just not to repeat my advice if people don't want to listen. I am not politically correct, I don't say what people want to hear, I tell them what needs to be done. Do I need to explain the various reasons WHY the diffusers need to be in shallow water for the winter? No. All I need to do is tell someone that they should be there. If they decide not to listen then it's on them. I don't have to come back now and act like I provided that information, the post that I made on 8/16/14 showed that I did. Do I need to discuss every little nuance about why this or that is recommended? No I don't, and neither do many other professionals.

Just like if you bring your car in for the squealing noise when you step on the brake pedal. You are told that the brakes need replacing. Do you ask why they are worn out? Does the mechanic tell you that riding with your left foot on the brake pedal wears out the brakes faster? Or that going from the gas to the brake pedal wears out the brakes faster? Or that by not looking ahead to see if the traffic is backed up or the light is red and not coasting causes you to wear out the brakes faster? No, they tell you that your brakes are worn and that they need replacing. Same with aeration.

Having a single diffuser in shallow water with diffusers running in the winter in deeper water won't cure the problem. You are still mixing the total water column with the other diffusers that are on the bottom of the pond and that doesn't help. That's why I tell people that they need to have a manifold or valves to turn off the diffusers in deep water for the winter.

On page 24, I discussed the doming/bridging issue, water temp issue and coarse bubble for winter aeration issue. We had discussed doming/bridging prior to that via a bunch of text messages prior to that. Snow or ice, it doesn't matter, it's a dome or a bridge, preventing the water from coming in contact with atmospheric air that isn't going thru the diffusers and it is also preventing the moving/flowing water from the diffusers from contacting the ice/snow, and that is the reason why it's not melting. Another scenario is that the diffusers could also burn thru the ice that is there, but the thick snow cover is enough to cause a bridge to keep the water covered. When the aeration stops, the bottom of the snow could ice over like the inside of an igloo, making the problem worse. I think that if single coarse bubble diffusers were placed apart from one another in a grid pattern, 20'-30'-40' apart, I think that would not allow the dome to rise up off the water completely and the water would burn through the ice/snow to allow open water. (i.e. it would create a span that was at least 60') How much of a span is needed to allow the thicker ice up there to bend back down and touch the water where the water is moving from the diffusers? I don't know. There are too many variables to try and calculate. I do know that when I watch the ice in my pond dome, the dome gets bigger and the center no longer contacts the water being brought up to the surface by the diffuser. Then the dome gets large enough that it cannot support it's weight in the center and the center dips down contacting the water that is brought up by the diffusers and that is what burns a hole through it. After the hole is burned through the ice the dome disappears and the hole opens up in a span of <24 hours. If the pipes accomplish the same thing, great!!

I also posted about using diffusers with coarser bubbles for winter aeration opens up the ice better back on page 24. I learned that lesson in doing a test to de-ice around a pier and boat hoists with the diffusers in shallow water. I also learned that the more air going through the diffusers created more waves which also opened up bigger holes. 3 diffusers, spaced approximately 15-20 feet apart, in 18"-36" water, will keep ice at bay around the pier/boat hoists if the coarser membranes are used and approximately 3 cfm is shoved thru each membrane. The finer bubble membrane diffusers and <1 cfm going through each membrane diffuser won't keep the ice at bay.

Do I know all there is to know about melting 3' or more of ice and multiple feet of snow at 10,000'? No and I never said that I did and none of the aeration companies knew either. I DO know a lot about aeration in general and what is needed to be done to get ice to melt for winter aeration. Even with that, there is more learning being done every year.

1) You need to have a warm water refuge for the fish. Will it contribute to helping burn through the ice quicker? Yes, I believe so.
2) You need to create wave action to keep as little of the ice from forming as possible. How that is accomplished? Larger bubbles and more air volume going through the diffusers. Or a motor and propeller like the Kasco de-icing systems for docks and boats.
3) You need to have ice/snow in contact with the water to melt it. That can be accomplished in a number of ways as you have shown. As you hve seen, air is a great insulator.


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).