Thanks for that reply, gave me a lot to think about... So is Swingle's numbers pretty good to work with? If so where is the best reference to study his info? Might give me a framework to start a plan from... Then how do most of you check your ponds to see if you are moving towards your plan or away from it? Do you use minnow traps and gill nets, or just keep an eye on the condition of the fish as you catch them? Thanks J