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#538230 07/28/21 09:49 PM
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Shorty Offline OP
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A few SMB

A few SMB from tonight, 14 3/4", 12 1/2", & 9".


2 members like this: Augie, jpsdad
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Shorty #538249 07/29/21 08:07 AM
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Those are all great fish Shorty but the pleasingly plump girl ... she's remarkable.


It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


jpsdad #538252 07/29/21 09:10 AM
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My smaller SMB have a lot of competition from large numbers of GSH in the 6-8" size range, at about 13" to 14" my SMB don't have that competition and they really plump up.



Shorty #538253 07/29/21 09:22 AM
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Shorty - from the smallies that you have been sampling, do you think the above 3 pics represent all of your three age classes of SMB? Or are there other older larger smallies than the largest one? The small one is likely a 2 or 3 year old fish?


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Shorty #538256 07/29/21 09:42 AM
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No other larger fish present. There were a small number of 6-7" SMB that survived the fish kill in 2019, that could be 2 or 3 fish or possibly up to a dozen, my best guess is that there were only two of them and the 14 3/4" SMB is likely one of those survivors. There might 2 age classes of fish or they could all be 3 years old. Yes the 9" fish is likely a 2 or 3 year old runt, the 12 1/2" fish is likely the same age. I have seen no evidence of SMB recruitment in my pond since 2014.

Last edited by Shorty; 07/29/21 10:00 AM.


Shorty #538267 07/29/21 08:39 PM
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Good update on your situation. Thanks. Remind us what species of fish are present in your SMB pond? I think I remember you have large 8" GSH and redear. I'm surprised both of some survived during your DO shortage and partial fish kill. Do you think some species were eliminated due to the DO shortage?

Last edited by Bill Cody; 07/29/21 08:40 PM.

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Shorty #538269 07/29/21 09:29 PM
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I currently have SMB, RES, and lots GSH in various sizes. I have a very small population of FHM, a handful of HSB (stocked 8 of them last summer), and a handful of WE (stocked 55 in the fall of 2019 and lost at least half of them during very hot weather last summer, not sure how many are left, probably not many.) I originally stocked a small number of YP but didn't see hardly any recruitment from them over the years and they struggled with the summer heat in my small pond. The last YP was found dead in May of 2019.

A little history.

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=37842&Number=493321#Post493321

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=34174&Number=498619#Post498619

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=38797&Number=506021#Post506021

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=38797&Number=506154#Post506154

Last edited by Shorty; 07/29/21 09:57 PM.


Shorty #538319 07/31/21 09:45 PM
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If you had yellow perch alive when the loss of DO killed the smallies some of the YP should have survived because they tolerate low DO much better than any of your other fish.
1.How well do you think the SMB are keeping the RES controlled or are the SMB too much predation for good RES survival?.
2. What are the habitat and refuge areas that compose habitat nursery in your pond?
3. Does your pond have crayfish?.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 07/31/21 09:55 PM.

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Bill Cody #538325 08/01/21 09:10 AM
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I'm pretty sure there are no YP left in the pond due to very poor recruitment over time, just 40 were stocked in 2012 and the original stockers are way past their life expectancy. Those original YP stockers topped out at 12-14".

1. The SMB appear to be keeping the YOY RES under control at the moment, I had a big RES hatch last year with good numbers of 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" RES present last October, either the SMB got most of them or winter mortality did. I had a big GSH hatch last year too, lots of 2-4" GSH present last October and the SMB did a good job of thinning those down over winter. When I restocked the SMB I intentionally overstocked them in hopes of getting the GSH under control and knowing that I would lose some due to their smaller size. 110 2-4" SMB were stocked late June of 2019, those came from Hartley's in south central KS, they were mostly on the smaller size. I do have a large year class of RES in the 5-6" size range that are outside the size range that most of my SMB can currently utilize, that will change as the SMB get bigger.

2. I currently have no submergent vegetation of any kind. The pond level fluctuates, it's normally a little low coming out of winter which allows for water pepper and some sort of emergent grass that thrives growing in water to provide a ring of vegetation in 1-2 ft. of water around the pond. This provides good nursery cover for YOY and daphnia to hide in. I have recently let a couple patches of cattails grow, the outer edges of those cattails are currently growing in 42" of water.

3. I did stock northern crawfish when I restocked the SMB in 2019. I don't have rock cover for them to hide in but believe they are in the cattails eating the roots, I'll occasionally find pcs of cattail roots in the pond that something has dug up and been nibbling on.

The absence of large predators in my pond from July 2018 through the present has created a large population/year class of 6-8" GSH and 5-6" RES. I've been thinning large GSH down and may need to thin some of the RES down too. At the moment I'm less concerned about RES than I am about the GSH, the 6-8" GSH vastly outnumber the 5-6" RES. Prior to 2018 having too many large shiners present lead to very poor recruitment of SMB and YP, but not RES.




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