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I suggest a new sizing system for all CSBG. I think this is warranted as by now they are no doubt a new strain ( read genetically transformed) . Big , Giant , Hog , Plate Sized , and Gargantuan. Notice no small , med and large. \:o

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Bruce,

Have you been adding to the BG gene pool as well or just selecting and breeding the BG genes you have?

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I was going to plant some broodstock perch in a pond in March or April and then Condello's best growers and some of my best growers in the same pond because I only have one pond for producing both at this time. Trouble is by the time the bluegill fry hatch, the perch will be big enough to engulf them. it could also make it harder to feed train the perch if there are plenty of bluegill fry to eat.

I think I may hold off on the perch spawning one year and hopefully get one more pond in to produce them. I'd hate to seine the pond in the fall and end up with hardly any bluegills! \:o

Thoughts?


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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In summer of 2000, 1.25 acre pond “Big Oliver” was renovated. It was stocked in fall of 2000 with 60 bluegill, 30 males and 30 females. These were the 60 fish with the best body condition from pre-renovation that were saved in Coulee pond which is .1 acre and had been provided with pellets all of summer 2000 during Big Oliver’s renovation. Their original source before the renovation was a stocking of bluegill made by previous owner of pond.

It was my assumption that the fish in the best body condition (The ones put in Big O in fall of 2000) were fish that had learned to utilize pellets. They had been sequestered in Coulee for four months, and quite a few of the fish were in poor condition, but at least 60 were beautiful, with Wr’s of over 110.

It was also assumed that the fish that were introduced into Big Oliver in the fall of 2000 did not pull off a successful spawn that year because the stocking was made in late September and no beds were observed for the rest of that year. Secchi readings were 3 meters because the pond had been refilled with well water.

This leads to the following assumption that YOY’s sampled in late July of 2001, which were 1-2 inches long were progeny of these fish. There were no other adult fish of any species in the pond except hybrid striped bass, so these fish were determined to be F-2’s

These fish were left on three time daily feedings for the remainder of 2001.

In June of 2002 Big Oliver was seined and the seine haul brought up 1,750 fish, of which the largest and most robust 155 fish were selected which averaged 6 inches and ranged from 5.5 to 6.25 inches. These fish were moved to Hoover Pond which had been left dry since September of 2001, so it had no other fish present. Shortly thereafter there was a disastrous die-off of all fish in Big Oliver. Big Oliver was drained and rotenone was applied in July/August of 2002.

In September of 2002 60 fish of which 30 were male and 30 were female were removed from Hoover and placed back in Big Oliver. These 60 fish were selected from 130 remaining fish of the 155 stocked in June. It was assumed that the Wr’s of 120 were the result of good feed training. All fish with Wr’s below 120 were left in Hoover Pond. The fish that were placed in Big Oliver were 6.5 to 7.75 inches long.

Young of the Year fish were observed in Big Oliver in November of 2002. It was assumed this was evidence of a fall spawn, since the fish were first placed in September into a pond that had been drained and rotenone applied. These fish were 1-2 inches and were considered to be F-3’s.

In July of 2004 40 fish were selected using angling with a pellet imitating fly. These were obviously healthy, feed trained fish with Wr’s between 115 and 135. The average length was 8 inches and the range was 7.5 inches to 8.75 inches. Another twenty fish were sampled and selected from a pellet fed population, also using pellet imitations to angle fish. These fish were 10 males and 10 females ranging from 8-10.5 inches with Wr’s of 120-125. These 60 fish were placed in Chalk Pond which was a newly constructed pond created just as a reproduction pond for bluegill. In August, these 60 fish were observed guarding nests, and shortly thereafter fry were seen swimming nearby.

In November of 2004, 930 of these fingerlings were moved to FirestoneII pond. These fish averaged just under two inches, with some specimens already nearing 3 inches. These fish were henceforth known as F-4’s. At this point all remaining fish were removed from Chalk Pond and sold.

In July of 2005 Firestone II pond was sampled, revealing fish that were as big as 5.75 inches, with significant numbers of fish over 4 inches. Wr’s ranged from 80-150. The fish with smaller Wr values were as small as two inches still at this time, while the fish with higher Wr values were the longer more robust fish. This pond showed significant pellet eating events throughout the summer of 2005.

On June 15 of 2006, 30 male bluegill and 30 female bluegill were taken from Firestone II pond and placed in Chalk Pond. Males were observed nesting on July 1 of 2006, and fry, and then fingerlings were observed throughout the course of August and early September.

Mid-October 2006, ran a seine and sorted through approximately 3,000 YOY’s and collected the 300 best fish. They ranged from 3-4.5 inches. Other fish seined were as small as 1 inch. The 300 best fish were moved to a tank in the Morton building and fed high protein pellets and krill throughout the winter. These fish were considered F-5’s.

May 2007, approximately 200 F-5’s were given to Cecil Baird and Bill Cody to bring to Indiana and Ohio. Another 104 bluegill were transferred to Firestone I pond. At this time the fish moved to the lined pond were between 5 and 6.25 inches. The ones given to Baird and Cody ranged from 4-5 inches.

June 2007 Baird reports enthusiastic feedings.

July 2007 I sampled a few of the F-5’s in the lined pond and found fish to be in robust condition with Wr’s in the range of 120-140, and lengths of 6-8 inches. 24 males were transferred to Hoover Pond so as to minimize risk of losing all fish to an oxygen event. Fish are still feeding well, and are observed creating nests in small corner of pond that has some silt.

YOY bluegill are observed in July of 2007 in the lined pond, but these fish will likely be discarded or sold due to the fact that they are progeny of bluegill males and females that are rapidly sexually maturing. These fish will not get the designation of F-6’s.



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Bruce,

I don't know Bruce... They're getting so big I'm not sure they should be stocked in family ponds. What happens when the kids get too close to the bank.
\:o




If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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\:o \:o \:o


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One of the things that I really like about these forums is the diversity of approaches we have to pond management. Read Bruce's post. Then read it a second time.

Now that you've done that I'll tell you my approach to BG management.

Purchase some BG from supplier.

Put them into the pond. I didn't fling them frisbee style into the pond like George did I just floated them in bags for a few minutes then turned them loose. \:\)

Take a step back away from the pond and see if the live or die.

End of story.

Course I'll never raise award winning BG and I really like reading about how Bruce manages his ponds. My management style kinda borders on negligence when compared to Bruce. Makes me feel sad for my BG, poor little fellers.


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 Originally Posted By: jeffhasapond
One of the things that I really like about these forums is the diversity of approaches we have to pond management. Read Bruce's post. Then read it a second time.

Now that you've done that I'll tell you my approach to BG management.

Purchase some BG from supplier.

Put them into the pond. I didn't fling them frisbee style into the pond like George did I just floated them in bags for a few minutes then turned them loose. \:\)

Take a step back away from the pond and see if the live or die.

End of story.

Course I'll never raise award winning BG and I really like reading about how Bruce manages his ponds. My management style kinda borders on negligence when compared to Bruce. Makes me feel sad for my BG, poor little fellers.



My absolutely favorite thing about all of this is that if you take care of your water quality, your approach can work just as good as mine. Nothing negligent about it. Keep your water pretty, and follow just really simple harvest strategies and your bluegill can get just as big as mine. There are two reasons why I do what I do.

1. I'm neurotic.

2. By pushing the envelope, I think that some little nuggets of information may emerge that benefit others taking a more practical approach. In the end, I'll manage my ponds just like you.


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 Originally Posted By: jeffhasapond
...................
Purchase some BG from supplier.

Put them into the pond. I didn't fling them frisbee style into the pond like George did I just floated them in bags for a few minutes then turned them loose. \:\)

Take a step back away from the pond and see if the live or die.

End of story.


Jeff, even a better idea...."Purchase some BG from supplier" - that will deliver your fish, add pond water to his oxygenated tank to acclimate them, and "fling" the TILAPIA over the thick FA so as not to kill standed fish.

It all depends....



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 Originally Posted By: george1
Jeff, even a better idea...."Purchase some BG from supplier" - that will deliver your fish, add pond water to his oxygenated tank to acclimate them, and "fling" the TILAPIA over the thick FA so as not to kill standed fish.

It all depends....


I was still a little sensitive about adding fish to my pond after the horrific Gambusia incident. So I gently floated them in their plastic bags, slowly opened the bag to allow them to swim out, and sang Kumbaya as they swam away. I figured one tragic stocking event was all I could handle in a years time. \:\)

George and others, I got a question for those of you that have used a fish supplier. Around DIED and I the suppliers charge an arm and a leg to deliver fish. So both DIED and I picked up our fish from the supplier. The only supplier that I found that would deliver wanted something like $300 to deliver. How does this work in other parts of the country. Does it depend upon how much you order? Do they charge for delivery and if so how much? Just curious.


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I've seen suppliers charge a dollar a mile and some two dollars a mile. I know two suppliers that don't charge for delivery if you buy a minimum quantity.


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I pick up small orders from my supplier same as you and D.I.E.D.
Delivery costs are based on minimum fish order and current $1.50/mile delivery charge.



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My regular supplier has free delivery for orders over $150. Their prices are up and down wrt other fish suppliers; higher on some things and lower on others.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
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Here's the latest photo of one of the bluegill we've been tracking since last fall.



8 inches, 10 ounces, 67 weeks old.

Now, same year-class, last winter.



Last edited by Bruce Condello; 10/14/07 08:28 PM.

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1 year to a half-pound - that's what aquaculture needs for commercial BG fillet production, my man.


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 Originally Posted By: Bruce Condello
Here's the latest photo of one of the bluegill we've been tracking since last fall.

The width to length ratio is particularly impressive... \:\)
Is this a "selection" critera?
Good job....!



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 Originally Posted By: Theo Gallus
1 year to a half-pound - that's what aquaculture needs for commercial BG fillet production, my man.


And Bruce is the only one selectively breeding them that I know of! Seems to me if Bruce can eventually do this consistently he will have a big market. Most growers are pooh poohing the bluegills because they don't grow fast enough. But I've seen the fillets selling for $16.00 per pound! \:o

I will be doing some selective breeding of my own here thanks to Bruce.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Bruce are you sure got posted the right link? It does have stuff about your BG's but it is the "What To Do" topic that has only current posts for the last couple of days.


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Yes, that entire "Question about raising bluegills" thread is about using selection principles to get bigger bluegill. So Cecil's new thread dovetails in nicely.


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Here's another question about selectively raising bluegills.

What happens if you have a tank full of 8-9 inch CSBG, then you feed them worms and softened pellets and krill for a solid hour until they won't eat anymore, then you decide for some crazy reason to throw a 2.5 inch CSBG into the tank?

I think I'd have to have video for you to believe it. I've never seen such vicious, uncivilized behavior in my life! \:o \:o \:o


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I have seen it many times in the aquarium. The big fish will attack the small one , biting and ramming it until it is dead. Indeed vicious. Sometimes it takes a few minuets others several days.
















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Bruce - That is the social dominance the larger BG impose on the smaller BG. Now you can better understand how the larger bull males keep smaller males from maturing early.


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I see what you guys mean.

I mean it was really, really alarming. Fish that had been passively sipping tiny krill like they were bored turned into a pack of wolves the instant the littler bluegill went in. Seriously, it was less than 1/2 second when a couple of bigger ones shot at him. It was almost too fast to see.


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Bruce,

Along with hierachy behavior which Bill mentions, I know this doesn't sound very profound but could you be breeding for agressiveness along with the fast growth as they may go hand in hand? I'm telling you I've never seen bluegill as aggressive as the ones I got from you. No complaints whatsoever but it floored me!

This spring I will be grouping bluegills within one inch of each other in separate cages. I.e. 5 to 5.9 one cage. 6.0 to 6.9 another etc. Since they are aggressive this should keep growth more uniform.

On another note, after doing a lot of research on using three lines of rotating breeding stock every generation -- of which one will be yours -- it has occured to me I may have to manually mix eggs and milt in a petri dish, put that into an aquarium and then plant the fry into the the pond If am really serious about reducing inbreeding while selectively breeding. The reason being is in a pond setting the rotational line mating scheme obviously doesn't work as perfectly as it does on paper. Each male won't necessarily cross with the line it's supposed to.

This is one of my faults. When I do something I go gung ho and get really OCD about it.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 11/10/07 12:30 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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