Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Building a dam Antiseep collars

Can someone show me where to find antiseep collars for sale on the internet. I found some that have a wood frame, but that doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

I tried using the search function but I couldn't find any information.

Chris:

FWIW, I have used the ones with the wooden frame, the first time in 2001 and then again this year. I you can't find some you like better and if a 6 year testimonial does any good, there you go.

The contractor who is renovating my pond made his own with a wood/plywood frame and filled it with bags of concrete he mixed on site. At first I thought it was overkill but it was relatively cheap and will probably last a lifetime....

Chris...
The rubber anti-seeps that you and Theo speak of are pretty much the standard of the industry. They are economical and effective when installed correctly. The wood frame is pretty much expected to eventually rot. It's only purpose is to maintain shape during installation, backfill, and tamp. You probably already bumped into Agridrain .
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RobA is at the other end of the spectrum in engineering and installation. A little more work as RobA notes, but likely worth it in the long haul. RobA...with all due respect, I have a couple of questions regarding that type of anti-seep collar. Is that nothing more than a block of sakrete? Are there any rebars (likely no biggie) or, perhaps more importantly, a rubber diaphram cast in the concrete to assure a watertight fit against the OD of the pipe? I am curious as the expectations of a long term watertight fit of a concrete monolith against a PVC pipe. Seriously...I only ask because I don't know.
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When confronted with the anti-seep collar decision, we ultimately took this route.

Thats good to know. Having wood on something that will be underground didn't make sense, but if it is just for helping in installation it wont matter.

Yes, I have looked at the Agridrain. That may be the way to go.

Brettski: There is no rebar or rubber diaphram in the collar. When I hired the contractor he told me the type of collar he used/made. Sounded good to me. I'm with you and am not an expert. I think rebar was not used since the collar was packed/surrounded with clay. A plate vibrator was used to ensure a tight seal against the wood. Given that there will be moisture but no air I don't see the wood rotting for a long time if at all. And if it does I'm not sure if it matters. The concrete was added slowly to the wood form and 'stirred' to ensure there were no air pockets.

Yeah, Rob...it's heck being the guy with the loan, puttin' all your faith in someone else that's presumably the expert. You do your best to make the best decision based on all that expert opinion, and still wonder. Such is life. Such are ponds.
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Chris, I'm gonna go back to the PVC collars that we used. When I discussed the details of the drain with my contractor, he kinda cringed at using the rubber units. He said that, even with the wood frame, they are floppy and cumbersome. Theo and many others on this forum have used them. I can't believe that they are all that bad. Anyway, when I found these PVC units on-line and spent some time talking with the manufacturer, I was very encouraged. I had the PVC fitting upgraded to Schedule 80 (wasn't sure what pipe I would be using) They wound up costing about $150 each, delivered to my home. When I told my contractor about them, his eyebrows shot up and he smiled big, saying "those are gonna be a cinch to install". They were. No muss, no fuss. When we were done, he compared them to the time he has spent with the rubber units and said they were worth every penny (yeah, every one of MY pennies). I have never worked with the rubber units, but I was the second of two sets of hands that set the PVC units we used. They were cake...just like setting one more section of pipe.

Okay - True Confession time - "I was a Middle-Aged Rubber Sheet User"

We used 2 different sizes on the latest pond, 2'x2' on the 1" waterline, and 4'x4' on the 8" drain pipe. Both came from AgriDrain. The 2'x2' size came preassembled; the 4'x4' come with the frame needing assembled and the rubber sheet needing affixed to it. From this point, I can describe use of the larger size personally.

The frame is easily assembled using the screws included in the AgriDrain kit. The kit includes roofing nails intended to secure the stretched rubber sheet to the frame; save them for your next roofing job and generously apply a staple gun instead. You'll be glad you did.

Next, mark a circle (IIRC 2/3 the diameter of the pipe you are anti-seep protecting) in the middle of the sheet and use A PAIR OF SCISSORS (not a knife) to cut the hole. You slide the pipe through the hole to the point of interest; it makes a nice snug fit, like a rubber turtle neck.

Now, my excavator's method is to dig a nice square dado on both sides of and below the smaller ditch that the pipe is being layed in. He places the frame snug against one side (the uphill side) of the dado hole, then uses a jumping jack compacter to lock the frame into place with (2) lift stages, bringing the level of the recompacted dado up to the bottom of the pipe ditch. Then you have to compact the rest of the ditch alternating between both sides of the rubber sheet so that it's not stretched too much in either direction.

Eventually the small (1"x2") wooden frame members will rot, but the voids left will be separated from the drain pipe by a foot and a half (or so) of well-compacted clay AND perpendicular to the dam, not IMHO inclined (slope joke, drum roll please) to encourage leakage downhill.

So, thanks, AgriDrain, for keeping my (dam) backside dry even though my (pond) bottom is wet!

Ok, now I don't know which one I should choose.

Brettski, Where did you find the antiseep collars that you used?

Easyway Plastics

I got mine here.

http://www.scheibdrainage.com/html/Products.htm

Pretty pleased overall...

Now those are slick, Rangersedge. What size with what fitting? How much $?

On my pond I used a concrete collar with plastic pipe, though it wasn't nearly as pretty as the one shown in this post. I used a plastic mastic (roofing tar) applied to the pipe just before the concrete was poured, extending out past the thickness of the concrete on each side. I also removed the forms before backfilling. Steel reinforcement in concrete is used to carry tension so if your concrete collar is relatively thin compared to it's overall size there's a good chance soil settlement could try to bend it so it's probably a good idea to reinforce it with wire on each face. Mine was about 6 inches thick by 3 ft square so I didn't use any reinforcement. I think you could get by without the mastic, the key would be mixing the concrete just perfect, since concrete with too much water will shrink when it cures and would leave a gap around the pipe. I think any of the collars suggested here would be fine, I don't see any problem with the rubber sheet on the wood frame. Looks pretty cost effective. I used to work for a company which made different durometer rubber sheets for wear surfaces on mining equipment, tuff stuff, might have to market my own collar!

Hey, Hillbilly...where the heck you been?
I think you started a thread when your own pond project was nearing completion. I've been waiting on an update. Good news, we hope...?

Brettski,

Just been really busy lately with the business, the kids, the wife, the pond etc. After I ran the compactor in the pond bottom back in March the pond filled up late April, early May with a couple of good, heavy rains we had (pond is only 3/4 acre with a 15-16 acre watershed). Since then we've had virtually zero precipitation and are in one of the worst droughts in the history of Middle TN. A really powerful Bermuda high has pushed all of the precip we would normally get north to you guys in the midwest. And it has sat there all summer. Consequently my pond is down about 3 feet. Also, the drought killed all of my young grass I planted in March, so I just recently re-sowed and re-strawed the entire "pondscape" (another $400) hoping the drought will break enough to let it get a start. We have had a couple of showers in the last few weeks totaling around 1". Also, I bought a pump and have been irrigating this second stand out of the pond. Anyway, when I put up my photobucket account and tell everyone to go look at it I want some pretty pond pics to put at the end. I'm working in Decatur, IL this week so I've spent more time than usual surfing the web which brought me back to the Pond Boss page. Your pond full by now?

Strangely, a similar story, but not anywhere near as severe on the drought end.
Last Fall and Winter was unbelieveable for good precip. It just kept comin'. We got our last major dowser in April and it brought it up to 25" short of full pool. Then the soils soaked in about 6" in a couple of weeks and the water works stopped. We have had a few good 1.5 - 2" rains over the summer, but evap has had the upper hand. We are about 38" short of pool. All things considered, acceptable results.
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What part of your job pulls you all the way up to Decatur?

I'm a mechainical engineer and have a small business where I design and build custom machines and machine enclosures. I'm installing an enclosure for a laser cell at the Cat plant in Decatur.

I don't remember cost. I measured the circumferance of the pipe and provided that to them. They worked really well and installed easily. Only caveat I would offer is to only do one at a time and mark the sides to ensure all the holes line up perfectly. I will likely order from them again when do more work; but also see adavantages to ones Brettski used. A nephew used to work for a construction firm that regularly used the rubber ones. He was impressed with the ones I used.