Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Raising Forage and Bait Fish Inside

Bob Lusk stated in another post - JP's timing couldn't have been better. Today, Chad and I caught more than 1,000 tilapia out of the hatchery pond. The lure? A 100 foot seine, ten feet deep. We enclosed 8 of our concrete fish vats inside an insulated "building." We used 4'x8' sheets of plywood, framed on each side of a 2'x4' with batt insulation. It measures 16'x20' and we have an electric oil heater, with plans to add another. The ceiling is thick clear plastic, used in greenhouses. Pretty cool. Read all about it in the Jan/Feb issue of PB. It works well with Theo's story about his indoor system.

I say- Ah yes, I like the idea of Pond Boss issues with individual themes - 1st- Raising Fish Indoors.

I thought the theme was alternate ways to raise fish --RAS , greenhouse , blocking net , cages. All you need is an article on cage raising.

Any forum members here raised in a cage? Brettski?

I think Dudley was.

I raise feed trained bass in cages just about every year to get them large enough where they won't be forage for the larger bass in the pond. They start out as 5 to 7 inches and end up about 10 to 12 inches by fall when I release them into the pond. Grew out 200 last time I did it. They do really well in cages if you keep the densities down and keep the cages cleaned. Running some water through them by setting a diffuser next to them helps too.

Bill Cody raises fish in cages too.

You guys should get with Bob and do a short article for that issue on raising fish in cages. Just some basics like size of cages , materials used or where to get , type of fish , time in cage , growth seen , type of food, cleaning , aerating near by, major trouble factors if any. I would sure like to see one as would many of us who don't know much about the method.

ewest - My comment of ""I like the idea of Pond Boss issues with individual themes"" is probably just a dream. It would take quite a bit of pre-planning and organization to create mag issues with themes. Depending on the number of articles available for the theme issue, the editor would have to probably solicit articles on specific topics. Note that even now the editor has to create articles to help fill each issue. Bob as a busy editor, needs more articles submitted to him from readers for publication. To do theme issues would take a pretty big author list to chose from which PBoss does not have yet. I think Bob does a great job considering how busy he is with his REAL job, and how short of time that he has been editor. Issues with a theme was just a dream and maybe something for him to "shoot for" as he gets more years as editor under is belt.

I would consider just two or three related articles as a theme issue for the current status of PB Mag.

FYI - I have an article about cage rearing of fish in the planning stages. As typical for my style it will not be short. I am collecting photographs and info. I might be able to get Cecil to be co-author. I need some photos of his cage operation since he uses a slightly different method.

Bill - The Jan/Feb issue will have a theme as I noted. We have been working on it for mths. The entire issue will not have a theme but several articles as noted will. Wish we had a short one on cages. I know how much work it is and am glad to help. If some of us took part of the burden to write short well done articles it would help. I may start another one on internet sources for info on Ponds and fish. Thanks for all your articles.

...you've no doubt seen my work with Samsonite luggage.

Cecil Baird1 aka CB1 and Cody are probably the most active and with the most experience at raising fish in cages.

Hee hee. It weren't a cage, Dave, it were a closet.

Well you guys got me going. I set up a 42 gal rubbermaid container in my house utility room. I had a attwood 500 bilge pump and a batt charger from a old Kiddy electric car. I spliced and set things up, was gonna make a homemade filter and have the water run threw it. The test of the pump was way to much flow... I got other plans for that pump.. I dug threw my aquarium stuff and pulled out a areator pump but I gave away all my filters when I moved (kicking myself) so I set up a cheap corner filter with the airpump. Tomarrow I am gonna make something from wood so the fatheads can spawn on. I added a little aquarium salt to the water, tomarrow after I make something they can spawn on I will put a bunch in there and see what happens. I will sort threw them and get the big ones. Are you able to tell sex on fatheads? Right now I did not put a heater since its in house temp it may be ok if its lower then 65 I will go get a small heater. I think maybe 70 -75 might be good for them to spawn??

During the month or so before they start spawning, the male FHs develop little bumps ("breeding tubercles") on their heads (for preparing the underneath sides of the boards/plant leaves/rocks they spawn at for the eggs, IIRC) and are supposed to develop darker coloration. Spawning occurs throughout the Spring/Summer while temps are above 60 deg F.

FH spawn from 60 degrees to 85 degrees. Don't pick all large ones or you will probably have mostly males. Pick about 6 big ones and 20 smaller ones. Males pick a place to spawn (underside of a board or in small pvc type tubes) and guard it. Several females will deposit eggs and male will stay there and guard. Males have fat heads.

Right now the water in the bin is sitting right at 60. I have a feeling I will be getting a heater to boost the temp to closer to 70. Thanks for the info on the fish and also about the PVC. I am basically gonna cut up a pallet and stack it and now put a few PVC pipe pieces in there. Since I have well water it should be pretty easy to change out some water once a week. If this works maybe I will try BG next. To bad I had all those small CNBG from the truck.

Set up everything and put the fish in. Guess what was mixed in with the fatheads... 5 CNBG yehaaaa. There small but that is exactly what I wanted. I almost dont want to try breeding the fatheads and just grow out the 5 CNBG. I put about 2 doz fatheads and the 5 CNBG, if the Fatheads spawn I will make a new bin and move the CNBG into that one. They ate so they must like there new home. better then the cold pond in a cage I guess. I still have to get the heater but the water is sitting at 61.

First off grats on the setup! I have been involved with home aquatics for over twenty five years and thought I would throw in my two cents. Your setup is very similar to what is used in the pet industry. We would take the rubbermaid tubs and drill a 3/8 hole approx, six inches form the top on the side. Insert a 3/8 pvc pipe and seal with aquarium sealant. The tube would run into a drain. In turn we would would run a small garden hose over the top with a small but steady stream running into the tub. This would provide a constant stream of freshwater to the system and helped to deplete the big enemy ammonia. Additionally it would be wise to use a Magnum canistar filter. Oh and dont be concerned with the chlorine. As long as you dechlorinate the first fill, the chlorine will gas itself from the water since you are not adding to fast. Keep the bubbles rolling for the minnows and good luck.

Thanks for the info. I just made a small order from thatpetplace. I got some AmmoCarb coming, a submersable heater and a few other things. Since I am dealing with well water here it should be very easy to do water changes every few days. Hopefully they will spawn. I never had good luck in my tropical tanks with spawning, hopefully fatheads are breeding machines.

I raised and spawned over 200 different species of tropical fish over the years. The big difference that we deal with is the water makeup ph etc. My guess is that fatheads will spawn just about anywhere given the right temp and food. Not sure if you have any tropical fish societies in your area or not, but if you can find one...get a white worm culture from one of them. They are tiney little worms that basically live in a makeup of baby cereal. Live food is the best and these little worms provide an excellent clean food that the fish go nuts for. If you get your filtration going give it two or three weeks before you change to much water as you basically have no good bacteria in there right now. So remember to feed light until then. After that I would suggest a bi-weekly water change no more than 1/3 of the water. Joey where did you get your fatheads? I was thinking of doing a side project this winter as well. I may even do the larger kiddy pool in the back yard this summer. I used to buy 50 or so platys or swordtails and throw them in the kiddy pool over the summer with a ton of floating plastic plants. The mosquito larvae and occasional feeding s gave me a surplus of fish at the end of the summer which I sold back to the fish store.

Oh one more thing that will make water changes easier on you. Not sure if your rubbermaid container has a screw in plug or not. You can fit that hole with a spicket that you can hook a hose to for water removal. Every time a read a thread I catch more of what people are trying to tell me..LOL! Lots of knowledge on this site with alot of good people...glad I found Pond Boss! I had to jump in on your thread since you are dealing with something that I actually know about. Now all I have to do is get my pond knowledge up to par!

I did use about 1/3 pond water so its not all new well water. I added a little aquarium salt also. I got the fatheads a few weeks ago off 2 differnt trucks, I had a bunch in a cage in the pond for a few weeks. To my surprise there was a few coppernose in there. The tub does not have a spicket but it is set up a few feet from the back door so draining water from the bottom is no problem. If nothing else, I know the BG will grow over the winter. I think I saw live red worms someplace.

Pet shops will not tell you this...but you can use salt from the grocery store. Get the deiodized! THE DIFFERENCE IS MAKE SURE THE SALT SAYS "THIS SALT DOES NOT CONTAIN IODIDE A NECCESSARY NUTRIENT". I use to use one teaspoon for every 10-20 gallon. The salt helps to build up their slime coat and helps prevent disease. Alot of people in the fish trade use it to treat diseased fish as well. I have only seen pics of the coppernose they look awesome. From what I have heared they will not survive our Illinois winters. Seems like you got a great setup going. Keep us informed how the spawning goes! Oh and one more thing on the white worms....some people call them micro worms. Refer to it as a white or micro worm culture when asking. They are a tiny white worm that would be ideal for your setup. The other thing is once you get your culture which is usally in a small butter tub...you can make new cultures on your own by moving some of the worm culture to a new tub of baby cereal. It will basically be a one time purchase!

Joey - To get fatheads to spawn it takes the proper photoperiod (light dark cycle) for them to develop and lay eggs. Begin by gradually increasing day length from 10-12hr to 15 to 16 hour days. Increase or maintain water temps at 70-74F. Regular feedings of some live food will help to get them into spawning condition but they should also do fine on some good quality high protein fish food.

Thanks Bill,

I was wondering if the legnth of the day mattered. I kinda wish I had 25 baby CNBG to grow out instead of trying to get these fathead to spawn. I think a regular aquarium with lighting that can be altered relitivly easy would be a better way to get them spawning. I still got baby BG around my dock I will try to trap someand maybe drob the fathead deal.

Actually Joey.... Bill is right about this. It is actually harder to control light in an aquarium unless it is in a dark room. I think that you will still have alot of fun with the minnows. I had a type of rainbow fish that I had to slowly adjust the lighting to get them to spawn. I have never spawned native fish...you are getting my curiosity up. Perhaps I will give it a go!

You have no idea what my first idea was but I came to my senses. I have a extra bathroom in the house. I was actually contemplating raising them in the bathtub, but I thought now I am getting out of hand. Actually it prob would work out much easyer to do it in there because I could contole the light easy with a timer and door closed to make the lighting right. Coulld you imagine the visitors.. Hey joe can I use your bathroom... hehehe ya just dont use the tub.

Yea....tell em dont feed the fish while your in there! I knew a guy that raised fish in an old tub that he sunk into his backyard. It actually worked out pretty good for him.

This is Condello's guest bath tub. When he serves carp to his guests for dinner, he never tells them where the carp came from.

I know, I know. It's just sick.

Hahaha this is why I like this place so much your all nutser then I am... hahahahaha

Hey Condello....cut the mud line out of mine and score it good! On second thought not sure I could not eat a fish that came from a bathtub! The ferret looks excited!

Dang! I forgot about that picture.

Actually the ferret is trained to take periodic water quality samplings. If he detects a dissolved oxygen sag he speed dials me at work. One chitter means DO problems, two chitters means ammonia buildup.

i wish the cat was that smart.

The update on the fatheads in the tub. There not doing great. The BG are doing very good but the fathead seem to be dieing off. So today I caught a few BG and brought them in. I am gonna switch from trying to breed the fatheads to growing the BG. I have a few CNBG that are small and several 3" BG that I just caught, one might be a RES I am not sure. The tub is just a rubbermaid, I put a 12 dollar submersable heater, I bought a cheap filter, actually bought 4 of them, a small air pump, and a splitter and a air stone. The poly floss I bought from wallmart, a huge bag for 2 bucks and the AmmoCarb from thatpetplace. Here is the link for the filters, this link has all the stuff you might want from air pumps to filters etc. Its more geared twards aquariums but the do have a pond section.

http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products/KW/...1/Itemdy00.aspx

So you're running all four filters on the same tank? Does that require four separate pumps or am I missing the boat here? (I miss the boat a lot lately). I've never had an actual aquarium, so I'm interested in how the filter setup works. Can you post a picture? If not you could email me a photo. I'm raising bluegill in a rubbermaid too, but I'm running water through at a rate of .4 gpm, but would like to add a filter for when I'm away for a period of time. Thanks Joey.

I only bought 4 because there so cheap. I figure buy a couple incase I want to set up more tubs. When you buy a cheap air pump they usually come with a splitter so you can run this type filter and a air stone. The filter actually does a nice job and considering you pick up the floss at wallmart for 2 bucks, thats enough to change the filter floss 60 to 100 times and the ammocarb is less then 6 bucks that enough to change it 40 times or so. so the filter, air pump, stone, floss, ammocarb and small heater is all about then 25 bucks. If you want I can go to the sight and copy and paste all the links. A filter cant hurt and the heater is key. Its no big doller filtration system but it works and actually works pretty good. I will take some pics.

Here is the little deal I set up, by no means a commercial setup but it just something to do for the winter and maybe let the BG get a jump on springtime. Here are a few pics, its time for a new camera! I am pretty sure that fish in the pic is a YOY,maybe from the first spawn. Pretty sure its just a common BG. I see no white or coloring on the fins to think it may be CNBG.

Good job, Joey!!

This shows how little I know about this stuff, but I've got two of those exact aerators and always just assumed that the second airline was just in case you wanted to aerate two different tanks. So you're telling me now that I take that second airline and hook it to one of those little filters and I've got some filtration, right? This is why my wife gets a good laugh at me sometimes because there are places that my brain never goes.

You have seen a picture of my setup, haven't you?




Any worries about that heater against the plastic bucket?

Ya, the second airline is either for a differnt tank or the same tank with differnt attachments. I saw your setup and it will be a template for something I want to do in the spring under a carport. My set up is just a quick deal to do somethoing for winter. I am sure it will grow the BG to get a headstart next year. I think your system would benifit from a filter and a heater because if you add a filter you can boost the temp of the water so those BG or stripers can grow at optimum temp. It has to be hard to maintain good water temp with a constant flow of well water. You should be able to just do a water change once or twice a week if you add a filter and a stone. I figure I will do a 25% water change one time a week and change out the filter media one time a week. Gonna maintain the water at about 68-70. Well see what happens.

Joey, or Burger or Theo, do you know what those heaters cost to run each day?

For your tank I think a 100 or 150 watt heater would be plenty. So you can figure it less then running a 100 watt light. It will cycle on and off more or less depending on surrounding temps. Its prob not much but to give you a number I cant. Guessing it pennys a day.

So, let's see....1/10 kw if you ran it 24 hours would be 2.4 kwh....divided by the square root of....hmmmm...then times the unit cost of something....uhhhh....wooops, my head just exploded.

I know one thing its not a lot. I would bet a doller its less then 20 cents a day. I would like to know actually how much. 100 watts, figure 12 hours a day, would do your tub.

Joey, that would be pretty close. 1.2 kilowatt hrs. X your cost per kwh., which is 12-16 cents.

From watching the Electric Bill, my cost to run a 1500W heater in a 100 gallon trough OUTDOORS in the dead of Winter is on the order of $10 per month. Running a heater on a small tank indoors would be pretty negligible.

Joey, I recognize your air pump; I believe I'm using the same one. A couple of tips:

1) Keep an eye on the output of your airstones. Mine clog a considerable amount over time due to the calcium and iron in my well water. The air output drops correspondingly, and I have to change stones about once a month. I lost a BG (very luckily only 1) finding this out.

2) You may want to rig up something to keep the heater away from the surface of the tank. Make sure I'm the only PB forum member who has burned down a watering trough.

Here's my set up - notice the truly radical departure from Bruce's approach. :rolleyes:

Theo, I've come up with another "radical" change to the system. You can take a brass sweeper nozzle that would ordinarily output about 3 gpm and smash it flat with a hammer. so that the opening is a slit. This way the pressurized water comes out at only about .3 gpm, but it hits the water so hard that it produces more oxygen from the disturbance.

Thanks Theo, I did buy a 4 pack of the stones. The submersable heater I bought has a clip and it clips on in a way to keep it away from the bin.

Bruce, I use to have a nozzel for my Ehime filter. All it was, was a clear plastic nozzel that had small tubing and it shot out water and air bubbles together. I have looked for the same nozzel but cant seem to find one

Theo what is attached to your bridge thing?

After seeing both your tubs I need a bigger one to now!

Joey - Two things.
1. I don't "think" that the white tips on the CNBG fins appear until the fish is at or near sexual maturity. Someone, Correct me if I am wrong, but I would also like to see a good photo with the correction.

2. I have some doubts about the success of your system because you do not have a flow through system similar to Theo's and Dr Bruce's. I also base my comment on the number of fish that I see in your "tub". How many fish do you have in that tub and how many gallons of water in it? ?

At least a little flow through or water turn-over is critical to their success. Joey, try it as you have it now we may learn something, but closely monitor the ammonia levels.

I just learned something.. I was looking for white tips or color on fins of all my BG thinking none were CNBG when they may be.

The tub is 32 gal most of those fish are Fatheads that I will be taking out. There is 10 or 11 BG.

The ammonia hopefully get taken care of from the AmmoCarb plus I will be doing a 25% water change weekly. You may be right and this wont be enough, that rate is more then twice what I did with my aquarium and I had the fish loaded in there.

I need to buy a new camera, it takes very bad pictures. I could prob get a better more clear pic outside of one of the fish.

Joey:

The "bridge" is the tray I made to hold my heaters in place. Fish like the cover it provides, too.

Theo,

I don't know squat about indoor fish raising but one thing makes me nervous. It's how close your wall outlet is to your tank. As we all know eletricity and water is a dangerous combination. Any possbily you should move the tank farther away from the outlet? I value you input here and wouldn't want to see anything happen to you. Or maybe a GFI plugin if you don't have one?

Bill here is some info from observation from the aquarium I once kept (may do it again). I will keep an eye out for photo evidence and in time can produce a pic from my fish.

There seems to be 2 types/variations of CNBG. One One from its original range (Fla area) and one from Ark. where many hatcheries grow lots of CNBG. The Fla. type are more colorful (lighter with more white/light pencil fin and tail margins and some orange pic 1 below) and the Ark. type (darker, more orange ,less light fin edges and less color ranges pic 2 & 3 below). The Fla types I have watched (most but not all) in the aquarium from 2 in up have had white/light fin edges.








This is from Todd. While not as bright as many you can see the light edge on the tail.

Now here's a 2.5" coppernose with yellow color on tail and pectoral fins. Hope you can see it well. I never noticed those light fin and tail edges until just now. Bing...I see it.




Secondary evidence the following are written by fisheries scientists one Tex one Miss. and they note the traits ,then provide that the copper bar is only in adult males. I would assume based on their training if all the other traits mentioned were in adults only they would have so stated.

The Coppernose bluegill is known for its colorful markings. The fins of the coppernose have a reddish orange fringe outline with a pencil thin white border. The vertical bars on the sides are more distinct and broader especially in the young. The distinct copper band across the head which is brilliant on the male is the reason for the common name "coppernose".

THE COPPERNOSE BLUEGILL (CNBG) IS ALSO A FLORIDA STRAIN. IT IS EASILY DISTINGUISHED FROM THE NORTHERN BLUEGILL BY ITS COLORATION AND MARKINGS. THE FINS OF THE CNBG ARE REDDISH-ORANGE WITH A THIN WHITE MARGIN. THE TYPICAL VERTICAL BAR PATTERN OF THE BLUEGILL IS PRONOUNCED IN THE COPPERNOSE, AND VERY DISTINCTIVE. ADULT MALES HAVE A BROAD COPPER BAND ACROSS THE HEAD THAT IS THE TRADEMARK OF THE STRAIN.

Hey Joey....I seen that you plan to change out your filter media once a week. You really do not want to disturbe the only biological filter that you have that frequently. Once every three weeks is more ideal. And the week that you change out your media...decrease on the percent of water change to around 10% as well as be sure not to overfeed. If you change out your filter media that fast you will in turn defeat the whole purpose of a biological fitler (beneficial bacteria).

I may add a second filter, my air pump can handle it, then I could change one every other week. What I should really do is put a bed of rocks on the bottom and do a water change by sucking threw the rocks just like in a regular aquarium. i might do this. Thanks LongHorn.

Bill and everyone here is a pic of one of the BG... its a casualty, he was hooked in the eye and I thought he might die and he did. If there was CNBG fingerling in my pond I would say this could be one of them. I am not saying for sure but its my guess. The camera stinks so these are the best pics I could do. I ordered a new camera this morning actually won a bid on ebay so in a week or so if I have to post a pic it may look a little better. This fish is almost 4 inches, probly a little big for the tub deal.

Please let me know what you think this fish is.

My guess -- given the number and small size (width) of the vertical bars it is a regular BG not a CNBG.

Joey said From your photos, I think the fish is dead.

From the quality of the photo, condition of the fish and closeness of the camera, my neck does not stretch out as far on the chopping block as Dr Bruce's - no opinion about the variety or strain. The BG varieties that ewest describes above are based on coloration. A fish's coloration quickly fades when it dies. Also when a fish is sick or highly stressed to the point of near death the coloration often deteriorates. Thus signs of true identity for your fish are very vague.

Ewest -Thanks for the detailed description of the strains of CNBG. Why don't we try to work your comments into an archive post or incorporate it into Dr.Bruce's Fish Primer?.

Thanks and I dont blame you for not being able to ID the fish. Next week maybe I can get you a better pic of some. Weather the ar CNBG or regular as long as they grow up and bite my line I will happy.

Bill I added the post above to the thread that is linked under Bruce's archive on CNBG. That should take care of it.

Thank you for your concern, Cecil. One should always use either safe equipment or safe practices (or both even) when dealing with electricity, or motor vehicles, or farm machinery, or firearms, or large 1200 lb animals that have a mind of there own. I deal with all of these and strongly suspect one of the others will get me before the fish tank does. But I try to be careful with all of them.

Crazy Cody is gone and has been replaced by the dry but just as funny regular Cody.

I don't think so, Joey. I had 30 BG up to 6.5" in a 100 gallons last Summer, and currently have 27 RES up to 7.75" in the same system. My daughter has a 7.75" BG in a 5 gallon aquarium. Lepomis bigger than 4" do OK in tanks, you just have to watch the total volume of fish versus the size of the system.

Hi Joey, I would leave the gravel out of the tub. With the amount of water changes that you will have to do, it will make the undergravel filter useless, and just give the nasty stuff a place to dwell. Ammo-carb is a good product, however it usually does not last very long. One thing that you could do is take one of your wife/girlfriends old panty hose and pour some ammo-carb in it...cut it and tie a knot in the end. Drop that in the tub...and change it out once a week. Ammo-carb does not have to have water pulled through it to work like charcoal does. Oh and make sure that your wife/girfriend knows what your doing with their old hose!

I did write the fish was a casualty..Ya it was very dead. You know I counted 13 anal fins?

My tub system is just a series of tests so next year I see what works and try to raise some little CNBG for the winter and maybe a tub of Mosquto fish, since there live bearers.

Thanks LongHorn, You were reading my mind.. I am gonna use the regular ammoina chips not the ammocarb in a stocking. After Bill reminded me of ammonia I thought I better. With my regular aquariums you have a tendency for forget about that stuff after you get into a groove you seem to keep it in check without even thinking about it.

Overall the fish are doing well, and the water is clearing up, the BG are doing better then the fatheads. The smaller 2" BG are doing the best and eating very good. I want to change there diet, gonna look for something higher in protien then the PGF that I am crumbling up.

Not sure if you have an Aldi grocery store in your area or not. My cousin was buying baby frozen shrimp there to feed his peacock bass. He said it was cheap and the his fish loved it! I have seen a few other posters referring to krill either frozen or freeze dried. This would be a great option as well.

Long, look at this link that I posted for Bruce last week. I was thinking of getting a few things after I hear from the other guys how it was.

http://www.jehmco.com/PRODUCTS_/FISH_FOODS_/Freeze_Dried/freeze_dried.html

Yea...I remember seeing your post on that. It is a great price! I commented on the spirulina flakes........perfect food for tilapia. I think that everyone should try raising tipia indoors at least once. It is so cool the way they carry their young in their mouth (mouth brooder)!

The inside BG are doing very good, they are eating the krill and grass shrimp, I also bought flake food they like to. They definatly like the kril better but eat both Grass shrimp and krill. Most the fatheads died, all those fish were in terrable shape from the truck. Looking at the BG in the tank I am sure there is a few coppernose in there, the reason is I can see a definate white fring on a few of the BG's tails exactly like the pictures posted on the board. Maintaining the water at 69 degrees. Did a 25% water change. The water is clear as a bell with the second filter. The wisper 400 is running both filters and the airstone.

You guys never know what an inspiration you are. The 150 gal rubbermaid is what my sweetie got me for Christmas. It is now complete with a 6"x13"x18" cavern, 75lbs rock, 24" fake tree, and Siamese kitty escape ramp (in case the curious clumsy old bugger falls in!) Oh, got to mention there's 83 Rosy Reds swimming about as of yesterday. They love the algae waffers and frozen brine shrimp. Ten big Ramshorn snails, some java moss, and 3 3" redears are in the mail. PH and amonia have been swinging around. I included 2 gal river water, some bacteria enhancer, and some 'alfalfa green tea.' The tank is 8 days young and the amonia is headed up though not too high yet. Any advice? Am I going to lose a bunch of fish?

Fish/snail density does not sound too high. The rosy reds should make good canaries to check the system before the RES arrive.

Try earthworms, other sinking invertebrates like mealworms or beetle grubs, and freeze-dried krill for the RES. They may take the brine (shrimp?) and freeze-dried bloodworms (mosquito larvae) as well. Once they start cleaning up the krill after it sinks, you can taper off the other food and they should (eventually) make the switch to eating the krill at the surface. Then you can start pellet training if you want.

Joey, thanks for sharing the pitfalls and successes of keeping fish inside. Keep us posted as to what becomes of your CNBG. Theo, glad you chipped in. There's a hypothisis I hope gets answered with this hobby; 'Will RES feed on little Rosy's yet leave the adult FH's to spawn?' Of course a good hypothsis doesn't need to be correct, just well observed and noted. I have no idea how big the RES need to be to get their mouths around a FH. Nor am I placing any bets whether the RES will gorge on FH's and the small Ramshorn snails (large Colombian Ramshorn arrive next Thurs) presently planted in the tank. Our utility room is perfect, cement floor, water temps suit spawning ie; 69 to 84 degrees: winter to summer. Just hope the grow lights support algae growth as the FH sure love it! The redwigglers are mass producing and the microworms are ordered. I'm impressed with your 27 up to 7.75" BG!

Make that RES and (as of Dec 28th) 8.75". And please keep your fingers crossed for me.

That mean old RES needs to go on a diet before it pops. Time to be looking for a new home in the big RAS as soon as temps allow.

Male or female -- ? eggs + temp + photoperiod = little mean ones.

What about growth curve info , especially vs. BG.

Well, with 27 fish randomly selected there's gotta be both sexes in there. Some RES I would feel more confident sexing than others (but not as comfortable as with BG - Thanks, Bruce). We need a Redear-sexing clinic, as thorough as what is available for BG.

I'm keeping the average photoperiod 4-5 hours a day. While off for Christmas, I've taken a good, hard look at the amount of light through the basement window and decided it's not enough light to matter. I hope the Redears agree with me - abstinence makes the heart grow fonder.

The big PBR RES will go back in the pond next Spring, to free up PBR biomass capacity and to put them where they can breed and be caught. The smaller (and more numerous) ones I will keep in the PBR at least through the Summer, maybe for another year. I would like to put them in pond #2 but I don't think it will be ready for them until Spring 2008.

Since they "settled down" in the PBR, they have grown more then BG did (the BG were not in as long and did not have as much time after getting used to their PBR environment). I am measuring 4 of the biggest RES every 2 or 3 weeks. The biggest one above started out at 6.75" in early September (assuming it's the same fish; if not, a smaller Redear grew more, which I think unlikely). I will measure the whole population in the Spring when I sort and thin and can show overall, average growth for a half-year or so then.

The probability of having all of one sex is .075 x 10^-7.

Happy New Year, Theo, and may each of our indoor growing experiences bring knowledge to us all.

Seems "iffy" Just what "confidence level" are you using, +-.025 ? Happy New year Meadowlark !

Gracious Theo, at 8.75" (1/2 lb?) that biggie RES could whoop a crappie! Now what would they do if you placed 'em in a pond primed with forage habitat, snails, FH's, crawdads, and no other real predators? My daddy would say, "Two niches for 1 fish is good." Got my fingers, as well as my toes, crossed for your RES project. Don't forget your 'black-eyed peas' today or you won't have too much luck in '07.

Nice redears, Theo! What have you been feeding? Krill, pellets? Tell us more.

BM:

A short version of my feeding roster
1) New in tank: Daily-krill, weekly-earthworms.

2) After krill being eaten on surface by most RES: Daily-krill + 40% protein cichlid pellets (slowly adjusting ratio to all pellets), weekly-earthworms/mealworms.

3) Final pellet diet: Daily pellets (slowly switching from cichlid pellets to larger/cheaper 40% protein Aquamax carnivore), weekly-earthworms/mealworms/krill. I am currently feeding about 75% Aquamax and 25% cichlid pellets.

The weekly natural food supplement is based on info ewest has provided suggesting it helps nutritionally. More than once a week may be advisable, but I am seeing if a weekly supplement will work.

I also toss in a single krill each day when the RES have finished eating pellets, to reward agressive surface feeders. It often causes a couple of uneaten pellets to be eaten by the krill race losers.

SoSauty:

I don't have any Black-Eyed Peas music, would listening to The Raspberries or Meatloaf instead also be lucky?

quote by Theo: I don't have any Black-Eyed Peas music, would listening to The Raspberries or Meatloaf instead also be lucky?

Wasn't Meatloaf on New Year's Eve pathetic?
No, I didnt watch it; just caught the touching duo of Meatloaf and that young chick.

burgermeister,

Meatloaf wasn't on the New Year's Day menu around here! (yuk!)

Also on the Rocking Eve, was Fergy, OF The Black Eyed Peas. Talk about Hot, as in Hottest on the Planet. For sure, the end of The Black Eyed Peas!

Anyone forget the Collard Greens for Wealth? Seems this Pond hobby would demand a double or triple helping of the Greens.

Fish tanks with flow thru vs no water flowing thru are very different. Never having owned an aquarium, I had to educate myself to the "new tank cycle." Apparently, ammonia has to build up, then convert to fertilizer, then bacteria and phytoplankton get started which eventually lowers the ammonia. Correct me if this wrong. Anyway, I started with a couple of gallons of river water and a sploch of Java moss. A few days in I added some 'alfalfa tea' to provide plant material to decay. A 25% weekly water change was made. PH swung around and now holds steady around 7.1. There's 8 T. salt in the 135 or so gallons of water. The ammonia crept up to 0.06 stressful level after the 1st week and stayed there for 10 days. This worried me as my new 4" & 4.5" RES had to go into this mildly toxic water. Great news though, no fish died and the ammonia has dropped to a 0.01 safer level these last 4 days. I thought this worth mentioning as I had no notion of the 'new fish tank cycle' before setting up the tank. Bluegrass helps me be a societal drop out.

im gonna use a 100 gallon tank used to water horses. it will be in our storage room and im gonna use an aquarium filter and airator. it will be used to breed FH year round as a constant snack for the LMB in my new pond. along with this set up iv got another one. during the summer i will use a kid pool 100-200 gallons to raise BG and other sunfish that are small then i'll take the ones that meet my standards and put them in the pond. the ones that dont will get to go into the 100 gallon tank for the winter if the FH population isn't to dense. i raised some common minnows from a nearby steam in a friends aquarium we went from 20 to more then we could count in the matter of a month or 2. we introduced them into a small stream that spring and they established a population as they are still there 5 years later. there was no minnows in there before

Hi just wanted to see if you had some follow up information on this and if you could supply some pictures of your setup.

I am new to this and wanting to get something setup at my house.

I think it would be fun to see if I could even get something to work, if I grow some minnows then I will have plenty of bait to use throughout the year, my kids would love to watch them, and I can move some to our ponds for nice snack.

Thanks in advance.

MRHELLO, I think all you'd need would be a simple aquarium setup to grow minnows for fishing if that's your goal. Get a bigger tank - at least 75 gallons, I'd think - so you have room to add the sort of structure preferred by the fish you would choose to raise. Aquariums are a lot of fun, especially for kids, and can give a good idea of fish behavior to some extent. There is a lot of info here on aquariums or as they are also referred to when they are little more purpose oriented than an aquarium tends to be (in my opinion), an RAS (I think that stands for recirculating aquaculture system, but it's just a bigger word for an aquarium!). Do a search on both here on the forum and you'll find a ton of info.

Todd, I searched for RAS and I don't think the search function works with so few letters. I revised the search by not using the acronym and it worked.

I ran the search through Google - waaaaaaay better than the search function here within the site (Note - TJ, the search function here in the forum SUCKS! I'm sure it's a function of the UBB software, though, because there's no way you'd put your stamp of approval on something that bad!) - and it came up with a lot of results. I have switched to searching for threads here exclusively through Google.

Just go to Google and type in this search and take a look at how it comes up - ras site:pondboss.com - it's the best and easiest way to search for info here in my opinion.

The current search function is bad? Todd, it's 100 times better than it was. I find it quite easy to find things now, though I haven't used the Google option to compare.

I haven't tried the internal search function here in awhile because it never really helped me find what I was after. If it's been updated, then my apologies to Mr. Hudson!

I take no credit or blame for anything software related - frankly, I've always experienced well documented challenges using the forum search function. What I do welcome is a list of concerns and ideas and I can forward them to UBB as they are currently working on their upgrades and may in fact listen and implement your suggestions/ideas/concerns.

My biggest beef with the search function has always been that it just isn't intuitive and I have rarely been able to make it do what I thought it would do. I'm used to fairly complex search databases from some subscription legal research services that I use regularly, but none of that experience has ever helped me get this search engine to work. The Google approach, though, has worked flawlessly for me since someone posted on how to use it for site searches.

TJ, I trust you know I wasn't in any way taking a shot at you - I know that the search engine here is driven by the software and that you have absolutely no control over that, bro. Just having a little fun messing with you over it, but this is sometimes a poor medium of communication for conveying the pure good natured jesting that is intended with a message.

Naw, I took no offense - did not interpret that as a barb at all! I've got thick hide and am just ignorant enough to not notice when someone IS messing with me.

TJ, you know that nobody's dissatisfied with anything you've done - you're responsible for
many good things that have happened to this site lately. Don't take any of this personally,
and please continue to help us get better. Got to go, I'm starting to tear up...