Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Raising Forage and Bait Fish Inside

Bill here is some info from observation from the aquarium I once kept (may do it again). I will keep an eye out for photo evidence and in time can produce a pic from my fish.

There seems to be 2 types/variations of CNBG. One One from its original range (Fla area) and one from Ark. where many hatcheries grow lots of CNBG. The Fla. type are more colorful (lighter with more white/light pencil fin and tail margins and some orange pic 1 below) and the Ark. type (darker, more orange ,less light fin edges and less color ranges pic 2 & 3 below). The Fla types I have watched (most but not all) in the aquarium from 2 in up have had white/light fin edges.








This is from Todd. While not as bright as many you can see the light edge on the tail.

Now here's a 2.5" coppernose with yellow color on tail and pectoral fins. Hope you can see it well. I never noticed those light fin and tail edges until just now. Bing...I see it.




Secondary evidence the following are written by fisheries scientists one Tex one Miss. and they note the traits ,then provide that the copper bar is only in adult males. I would assume based on their training if all the other traits mentioned were in adults only they would have so stated.

The Coppernose bluegill is known for its colorful markings. The fins of the coppernose have a reddish orange fringe outline with a pencil thin white border. The vertical bars on the sides are more distinct and broader especially in the young. The distinct copper band across the head which is brilliant on the male is the reason for the common name "coppernose".

THE COPPERNOSE BLUEGILL (CNBG) IS ALSO A FLORIDA STRAIN. IT IS EASILY DISTINGUISHED FROM THE NORTHERN BLUEGILL BY ITS COLORATION AND MARKINGS. THE FINS OF THE CNBG ARE REDDISH-ORANGE WITH A THIN WHITE MARGIN. THE TYPICAL VERTICAL BAR PATTERN OF THE BLUEGILL IS PRONOUNCED IN THE COPPERNOSE, AND VERY DISTINCTIVE. ADULT MALES HAVE A BROAD COPPER BAND ACROSS THE HEAD THAT IS THE TRADEMARK OF THE STRAIN.

Hey Joey....I seen that you plan to change out your filter media once a week. You really do not want to disturbe the only biological filter that you have that frequently. Once every three weeks is more ideal. And the week that you change out your media...decrease on the percent of water change to around 10% as well as be sure not to overfeed. If you change out your filter media that fast you will in turn defeat the whole purpose of a biological fitler (beneficial bacteria).

I may add a second filter, my air pump can handle it, then I could change one every other week. What I should really do is put a bed of rocks on the bottom and do a water change by sucking threw the rocks just like in a regular aquarium. i might do this. Thanks LongHorn.

Bill and everyone here is a pic of one of the BG... its a casualty, he was hooked in the eye and I thought he might die and he did. If there was CNBG fingerling in my pond I would say this could be one of them. I am not saying for sure but its my guess. The camera stinks so these are the best pics I could do. I ordered a new camera this morning actually won a bid on ebay so in a week or so if I have to post a pic it may look a little better. This fish is almost 4 inches, probly a little big for the tub deal.

Please let me know what you think this fish is.

My guess -- given the number and small size (width) of the vertical bars it is a regular BG not a CNBG.

Joey said From your photos, I think the fish is dead.

From the quality of the photo, condition of the fish and closeness of the camera, my neck does not stretch out as far on the chopping block as Dr Bruce's - no opinion about the variety or strain. The BG varieties that ewest describes above are based on coloration. A fish's coloration quickly fades when it dies. Also when a fish is sick or highly stressed to the point of near death the coloration often deteriorates. Thus signs of true identity for your fish are very vague.

Ewest -Thanks for the detailed description of the strains of CNBG. Why don't we try to work your comments into an archive post or incorporate it into Dr.Bruce's Fish Primer?.

Thanks and I dont blame you for not being able to ID the fish. Next week maybe I can get you a better pic of some. Weather the ar CNBG or regular as long as they grow up and bite my line I will happy.

Bill I added the post above to the thread that is linked under Bruce's archive on CNBG. That should take care of it.

Thank you for your concern, Cecil. One should always use either safe equipment or safe practices (or both even) when dealing with electricity, or motor vehicles, or farm machinery, or firearms, or large 1200 lb animals that have a mind of there own. I deal with all of these and strongly suspect one of the others will get me before the fish tank does. But I try to be careful with all of them.

Crazy Cody is gone and has been replaced by the dry but just as funny regular Cody.

I don't think so, Joey. I had 30 BG up to 6.5" in a 100 gallons last Summer, and currently have 27 RES up to 7.75" in the same system. My daughter has a 7.75" BG in a 5 gallon aquarium. Lepomis bigger than 4" do OK in tanks, you just have to watch the total volume of fish versus the size of the system.

Hi Joey, I would leave the gravel out of the tub. With the amount of water changes that you will have to do, it will make the undergravel filter useless, and just give the nasty stuff a place to dwell. Ammo-carb is a good product, however it usually does not last very long. One thing that you could do is take one of your wife/girlfriends old panty hose and pour some ammo-carb in it...cut it and tie a knot in the end. Drop that in the tub...and change it out once a week. Ammo-carb does not have to have water pulled through it to work like charcoal does. Oh and make sure that your wife/girfriend knows what your doing with their old hose!

I did write the fish was a casualty..Ya it was very dead. You know I counted 13 anal fins?

My tub system is just a series of tests so next year I see what works and try to raise some little CNBG for the winter and maybe a tub of Mosquto fish, since there live bearers.

Thanks LongHorn, You were reading my mind.. I am gonna use the regular ammoina chips not the ammocarb in a stocking. After Bill reminded me of ammonia I thought I better. With my regular aquariums you have a tendency for forget about that stuff after you get into a groove you seem to keep it in check without even thinking about it.

Overall the fish are doing well, and the water is clearing up, the BG are doing better then the fatheads. The smaller 2" BG are doing the best and eating very good. I want to change there diet, gonna look for something higher in protien then the PGF that I am crumbling up.

Not sure if you have an Aldi grocery store in your area or not. My cousin was buying baby frozen shrimp there to feed his peacock bass. He said it was cheap and the his fish loved it! I have seen a few other posters referring to krill either frozen or freeze dried. This would be a great option as well.

Long, look at this link that I posted for Bruce last week. I was thinking of getting a few things after I hear from the other guys how it was.

http://www.jehmco.com/PRODUCTS_/FISH_FOODS_/Freeze_Dried/freeze_dried.html

Yea...I remember seeing your post on that. It is a great price! I commented on the spirulina flakes........perfect food for tilapia. I think that everyone should try raising tipia indoors at least once. It is so cool the way they carry their young in their mouth (mouth brooder)!

The inside BG are doing very good, they are eating the krill and grass shrimp, I also bought flake food they like to. They definatly like the kril better but eat both Grass shrimp and krill. Most the fatheads died, all those fish were in terrable shape from the truck. Looking at the BG in the tank I am sure there is a few coppernose in there, the reason is I can see a definate white fring on a few of the BG's tails exactly like the pictures posted on the board. Maintaining the water at 69 degrees. Did a 25% water change. The water is clear as a bell with the second filter. The wisper 400 is running both filters and the airstone.

You guys never know what an inspiration you are. The 150 gal rubbermaid is what my sweetie got me for Christmas. It is now complete with a 6"x13"x18" cavern, 75lbs rock, 24" fake tree, and Siamese kitty escape ramp (in case the curious clumsy old bugger falls in!) Oh, got to mention there's 83 Rosy Reds swimming about as of yesterday. They love the algae waffers and frozen brine shrimp. Ten big Ramshorn snails, some java moss, and 3 3" redears are in the mail. PH and amonia have been swinging around. I included 2 gal river water, some bacteria enhancer, and some 'alfalfa green tea.' The tank is 8 days young and the amonia is headed up though not too high yet. Any advice? Am I going to lose a bunch of fish?

Fish/snail density does not sound too high. The rosy reds should make good canaries to check the system before the RES arrive.

Try earthworms, other sinking invertebrates like mealworms or beetle grubs, and freeze-dried krill for the RES. They may take the brine (shrimp?) and freeze-dried bloodworms (mosquito larvae) as well. Once they start cleaning up the krill after it sinks, you can taper off the other food and they should (eventually) make the switch to eating the krill at the surface. Then you can start pellet training if you want.

Joey, thanks for sharing the pitfalls and successes of keeping fish inside. Keep us posted as to what becomes of your CNBG. Theo, glad you chipped in. There's a hypothisis I hope gets answered with this hobby; 'Will RES feed on little Rosy's yet leave the adult FH's to spawn?' Of course a good hypothsis doesn't need to be correct, just well observed and noted. I have no idea how big the RES need to be to get their mouths around a FH. Nor am I placing any bets whether the RES will gorge on FH's and the small Ramshorn snails (large Colombian Ramshorn arrive next Thurs) presently planted in the tank. Our utility room is perfect, cement floor, water temps suit spawning ie; 69 to 84 degrees: winter to summer. Just hope the grow lights support algae growth as the FH sure love it! The redwigglers are mass producing and the microworms are ordered. I'm impressed with your 27 up to 7.75" BG!

Make that RES and (as of Dec 28th) 8.75". And please keep your fingers crossed for me.

That mean old RES needs to go on a diet before it pops. Time to be looking for a new home in the big RAS as soon as temps allow.

Male or female -- ? eggs + temp + photoperiod = little mean ones.

What about growth curve info , especially vs. BG.

Well, with 27 fish randomly selected there's gotta be both sexes in there. Some RES I would feel more confident sexing than others (but not as comfortable as with BG - Thanks, Bruce). We need a Redear-sexing clinic, as thorough as what is available for BG.

I'm keeping the average photoperiod 4-5 hours a day. While off for Christmas, I've taken a good, hard look at the amount of light through the basement window and decided it's not enough light to matter. I hope the Redears agree with me - abstinence makes the heart grow fonder.

The big PBR RES will go back in the pond next Spring, to free up PBR biomass capacity and to put them where they can breed and be caught. The smaller (and more numerous) ones I will keep in the PBR at least through the Summer, maybe for another year. I would like to put them in pond #2 but I don't think it will be ready for them until Spring 2008.

Since they "settled down" in the PBR, they have grown more then BG did (the BG were not in as long and did not have as much time after getting used to their PBR environment). I am measuring 4 of the biggest RES every 2 or 3 weeks. The biggest one above started out at 6.75" in early September (assuming it's the same fish; if not, a smaller Redear grew more, which I think unlikely). I will measure the whole population in the Spring when I sort and thin and can show overall, average growth for a half-year or so then.

The probability of having all of one sex is .075 x 10^-7.

Happy New Year, Theo, and may each of our indoor growing experiences bring knowledge to us all.

Seems "iffy" Just what "confidence level" are you using, +-.025 ? Happy New year Meadowlark !