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Stocking & Managing HSB, Wipers & Other Notes
#92629 05/29/07 02:51 PM
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I have been reading alot on the boards and have been a Pond boss reader for 2 1/2 years now and have finally got around to stocking my pond. I have stocked a 1 1/4 acre pond with 10lbs of FHM on April 10. I followed them up with 600 CNB 4"-5" and 150 6"-8" CC on May 16th. I am wanting to stock wipers and plan on feeding and taking and then restocking when needed just to keep everything in balance. When would you guys suggest stocking wipers and where should I look for the best price on said fish for pickup or deliver in north central OK? I will be putting a feeder on the pond within the next few weeks.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 07/04/19 09:58 AM.

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Re: Stocking & Managing HSB, Wipers & Other Notes
#92630 05/30/07 05:35 AM
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skennedy, I was hoping some of the pros would jump in on this subject, but they are in their busiest season of the year, so I’ll share my experience with you.

There is a ton of information in the archives on “wipers” (I prefer the term Hybrid Stiped Bass):
READER NOTE: SOME OF THE LINKS BUY GEORGE DO NOT WORK BUT THERE ARE LOTS OF OTHER LINKS IN LATER POSTS THAT PROVIDE VERY GOOD INFORMATION.

http://forums.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=20&t=003579
HYBRID STRIPED BASS
http://forums.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000199

HSB Pond
http://forums.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000344

George's photos!
http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000308

HSB study results
http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000450

Winter feeding HSBTopic: Winter feeding HSB Topic: Winter feeding HSB
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=003602
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=000180
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=000180

HSB Stress & Deaths in Cold Water.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=448898#Post448898


HSB in Hot Summer Weather
HSB do get very stressed, sometimes to the point of death during the angler-fish fight. The warmer the water the more they become stressed. It is not wise to fish for HSB when water is in the 80F+ range unless you are willing to tolerate some HSB mortality. George1 has a special proceedure to rejuvenate or revive heavily stressed HSB before releasing them back into the pond so they rarely die after an exhausting mid-summer battle with an angler. If George or another member knows the title of the thread that explains his reviving method using oxygen please post it below. Also see link later in this thread.

http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000341

Warm water and HSB extracted from the link above:

1. At what surface water temp. do you consider lethal when angling HSB? (81 degrees?)
There is no set lethal temperature. Remember that when water is warmer it loses some of it's ability to hold dissolved oxygen. HSB survive without angling in temperatures well into the 80's, but when you combine this with the stress of angling, lower oxygen, and long fights, these fish can and DO die.

2. At what water temp. would you expect to loose say 50 %.
50% is a high number. I'd say long fight at 81-85 degrees might see a mortality rate this high.

3. At what temp. do you consider maximum for near 100% survival? Using proper angling techniques (i.e. Quick catch and proper release, proper hooks, etc.)
To assure survival, I don't angle for my HSB at water temperatures above 75.

4. As you mention, larger fish are much more vulnerable to “fight to the death” syndrome. Are there standards you use for say 3#, 4# fish, etc.?
When HSB reach about 20 inches, the "death curve" starts to steepen.

5. You can increase oxygen available to fatigued muscle tissue by moving fish through the water (FORWARD) with it's mouth held open, if you don't have pure O2 available. It definitely helps. Keep in mind that a fish with massive lactic acid buildup essentially goes into a cramp. He can't recover if his mouth is cramped shut. I've seen this where you try to release a warm water captured hybrid and he gets a curve in his back and his mouth is locked shut. You put him in the water and he just lays there. He's suffering from oxygen deprivation just as much as if he's sitting on the bank. Maybe even more so. The fish on the bank is just drying out. The one in the water is suffocating.

6. HSB, and other fish as well, probably have significantly higher mortality if some of their handling occurs on a boat deck, or on the ground. Removing the slime layer is known to produced
some delayed mortality in addition to the immediate mortality being discussed above.

HSB Lifespan Info
http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000509;p=1

HSB Pond Record
http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=003596

HSB/Striped Bass Analogy
http://www.pondboss.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=20;t=003651

My experience with HSB in a ”put and take fishery” has been very successful.
As you read, or have read in the archives, the problem with stocking them in an existing pond is predation from adult LMB.

With a new pond and your stocking plan, you do not have this problem.
This presents an excellent opportunity to avoid the predation issue, and acquire stocker HSB at economical prices when this years crop becomes available.

I am not familiar with suppliers in your area but I’m sure someone on the forum will advise you.

I would stock the smallest and least expensive HSB available, at the rate of 100/acre, and supplement each fall with numbers you intend to harvest.
In this way you create a yearly "ladder" for harvest and sport fishing.
There is no finer pond fish than HSB for sport and table fare.

A feeding program with high protein pellets is an optimum program.
A good aeration system is a plus for the goals you have outlined, but I have had success in a ¼ acre “grow-out pond” used for transferring HSB to our 2 acre pond, having survived two record breaking, low water drought ridden summers.

Good luck and keep us posted

Last edited by Bill Cody; 07/06/19 01:51 PM.
Re: Stocking & Managing HSB, Wipers & Other Notes
#92631 05/30/07 05:49 AM
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In my book, George is a pro.

I'd read every word of the information above. Wipers are almost too much fun! You should really enjoy the experience. I think my favorite thing about wipers is that you can pick and choose which fish you harvest, and the remaining fish, with the best growth potential, can be left in the pond to grow to trophy size.

Good luck.


Last edited by Bill Cody; 04/07/16 05:41 PM.

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Re: Stocking & Managing HSB, Wipers & Other Notes
#92632 05/30/07 07:17 AM
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Guys I will be moving this thread to the Archives. Thanks George. \:\)
















Re: Stocking & Managing HSB, Wipers & Other Notes
ewest #103996 12/28/07 08:34 AM
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Hybrid Striped Bass Biology.

Here is a link to some handy nice Excel calculators for relative weights for LMB, SMB, HSB, WE(walleye), BG, BCP (blk crappie), YP (yellow perch). Plus standard weights for LMB, SMB, HSB, BG, Crappie, and CC.
http://texasprolakemanagement.com/blog/relative-weight-calculators

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=103995&fpart=1

HSB are fertile and in special conditions (see link info) will spawn and the eggs can hatch and result in offspring as described in the references below by the Stacy of Stubby Steve's fish food lures.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=418105#Post418105

Dave Willis explanation of functional sterility at
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=1394&Number=15285#Post15285

Cody note: I know that healthy HSB will develop eggs as seen by Cecil Baird and the HSB in my pond. I have a pond near me that has several small HSB that have not been stocked in with the original larger HSB. Apparently from the information in the links below it takes special conditions of moving water and water quality for the eggs to survive and hatch. The people that own and manage Stubby Steve baits have HSB spawning and recruiting hybrids in their pond which is not supposed to happen. I think I have the name of the pond owners correct as posted on the Pond Boss forum.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=177718&page=1

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=14608&Number=177647#Post177647

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=26165&Number=335069#Post335069


Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/21/19 09:11 AM.















Re: Stocking & Managing HSB, Wipers & Other Notes
skennedy #299435 07/16/12 09:24 AM
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Oxygen Resuscitation Method for HSB and Other Stressed Fish Before Releasing
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=22925


Wiper vs Hybrid stripped bass:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=326524#Post326524

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/21/13 08:28 AM.

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Re: Stocking & Managing HSB, Wipers & Other Notes
skennedy #322821 02/20/13 07:28 PM
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For ponds where there are pellet eating hybrid stiped bass and/or smallmouth bass with bluegills, sometimes the smallest bluegills will become abundant due to lack of predation. See this technique used by Shawn Banks to reduce numbers of small bluegills in his pond.

I had a similar problem in my smallmouth pond. As you know I also have hybrid stripers. The bluegill, however, were getting out of control. I really didn't mind it except that my family and I like to swim in the pond. We all got sick of bluegill continously biting us while we were swimming.

To solve the bluegill problem, I shut my feeders down for nearly 2 months this past summer. My smallies and wipers had to step up to the plate and earn their keep, which they did. Cutting them off from the tasty aquamax morsels meant that they had to eat bluegill or starve to death. Tough love but it worked. My predators adpated, improvised and overcame (thanks Mr. Eastwood). They put the hammer down on the bluegill, we commenced swimming in peace, and the predators were rightfully rewarded with loads of Aquamax this fall.

Obviously densities of predators is an important consideration when determining how long to shut the feeders down. A couple times per week I would cruise the shorelines and monitor progress. I watched the bluegill numbers dwindle until I felt the objective was met. Everyone (fish included) benefitted from this management decision.
My predators were in great condition prior to and after this little experiment. My smallies range from 3/4lb to 2 lbs+ at this time. My wipers are from 1.5 to 5 lbs. My initial class of bluegill and redear (class of 2010) are doing great with some fish pushing 9 inches. The last two years of spawn were the biters. I have no weeds whatsoever except for a small patch of cattails that I manage, but I have plenty of hard cover (hone hole trees and shrups, rock piles, gravel beds, couple of porcupine attractors, cubes made from pallets, and log configurations/cribs.

The bluegill numbers were getting out of control. I could go to my dock and scratch off periphyton from the floats and just like Pavlov's dogs, I would schools of little bluegills converge on my location. When walking around the pond's edge, I could see them everywhere. When the feeders went off, it became very evident that I had too many. I got great joy, however, from watching a few smallies that always preferred to pick bluegill off than eat pellets. The pellets left the little bluegill vulnerable- they couldn't but to go for the pellets- but the smallies would hammer them. However, there were literally only a few smallies that used this technique. Most of the smallies preferred the Aquamax Welfare Program. When I cut them off, they did switch to working for a living and started hammering the bluegills, as did the hybrid stripers.

When the mass genocide of small bluegills was ended, it took over a week to get a frenzy of feeding with the Aquamax again. The larger bluegill and the smaller smallies never missed a beat, however.

Speaking of the smallies, I have two distinct size classes from the original stocking of 4" fish from 2010. Some are living like rock-stars and have crazy growth rates, while others are healthy but mediocre. I thought maybe this was a gender thing, but we whacked 10 of them early last summer, and they were just as likely to be males as females. I also pulled otoliths to confirm they were the same age and they were.

I've had reproduction of the smallies but they don't recruit to the fishery. The reproduction is very limited and they don't make it past 2.5-3 inches. This has happened for the past two years. Perhaps some of them could have snuck through this past year had I not shut the feeders off, but most small things got eaten when I shut down the Aquamax.

TJ, I respectfully decline to answer your question as to why I stocked bluegill- lol. In hind-sight, I would have done some things differently.
Information was copied from this thread:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=25205&Number=320750

Note that TJ and Shawn both think that it was not a very good idea of combining bluegills with smallmouth and HSB.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/20/13 07:30 PM.

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Re: Stocking & Managing HSB, Wipers & Other Notes
skennedy #331821 04/23/13 07:46 AM
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Here are more posts, information pieces and pictures of hybrid striped bass from northern and southern states.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=331808#Post331808

And a thread about good ideas for catching those HSB even the hook shy ones.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=331948#Post331948

Idea of possible growth in one year after stocking 12".
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=341520#Post341520

Bluegillerkiller's HSB thread and some examples by others of HSB's fighting power and precautions during summer angling for them.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?
ubb=showflat&Number=343516#Post343516

Discussion of can HSB as only predator control bluegill?
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=359103#Post359103

Questions about using HSB in new IL pond:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=363471#Post363471

Example of HSB Growth Rates from various areas
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=369265#Post369265

Record size HSB and life spans.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=412842#Post412842

Speculation about minimum DO required by HSB compared to LMB and trout. HSB summer - winter kill examples.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=369674#Post369674

Option of Using HSB in a New Pond with LM Bass.
One could try a stocking ratio of LMB to HSB as a 1:1 ratio. One bass for each HSB. Try this and it should work well. The other option could be 2LMB to every 1 HSB, 2:1. Stocking of HSB with LMB can be a widely flexable ratio. Once the LMB have their first spawn,,, they will soon outnumber the HSB.

When I had HSB in my pond with LMB-BG-YP, I preferred the HSB to LMB as a sport fish. HSB also grew bigger and faster than LMB, they fought harder than LMB, and they ate pellets better and more aggressively than LMB.

We need to remember the LMB will start reproducing after the 1st or 2nd year they are stocked. They will soon outnumber the HSB, even if more HSB than LMB were initially stocked.

Generally it is thought that if the pond receives pellet feeding the LMB will eat more BG than the HSB, although this to my knowledge has not been proven nor tested. HSB eating pellets means these fish fill up on pellets and thus eat fewer fish than a similar sized LMB.

With a HSB-LMB combo one could MANAGE for more or less predation of the smaller BG based on how many of HSB or LMB are harvested. Removing more HSB should result in fewer BG surviving i.e. one gets heavier LMB predation due to more LMB are present. Removing more LMB should result in more BG surviving since fewer LMB are present to eat BG.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/17/17 07:59 PM.

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Re: Stocking & Managing HSB, Wipers & Other Notes
skennedy #397982 01/18/15 01:41 PM
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Here is link to an informative thread about growing HSB, their genetic make-up, and potential top end size.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=397981#Post397981

Hybrid striped bass are not sterile, although they rarely have the right conditions for a successful hatch of the eggs in a pond. A few PBoss members have seen some limited success of reproducing HSB.See link:
http://www.arkansasstripers.com/hybrid-striped-bass-spawning-habits.htm

More Spawning Info
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=440558#Post440558

Duplication of record size and life span from above.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=412842#Post412842

Member questions about adding HSB.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=457389#Post457389

Member examples of pond raised HSB
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=459189#Post459189

HSB stocked with RES - A concept & discussion
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=503145#Post503145

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/15/19 08:10 AM.

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Re: Stocking & Managing HSB, Wipers & Other Notes
skennedy #443109 04/07/16 05:42 PM
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Here is a very good thread that has lots of good information about growing hybrid striped bass. It includes on page 2 Bruce Condello's interesting story about overstocking his HSB pond and the resulting total fish kill.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=11180&page=1

Ladder Stocking Discussion
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=503063#Post503063

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/13/19 07:05 PM.

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