Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Creating habitat Yo! check out my new crib.

Larger gravel does not absolutely have to be round edged, although I prefer round edged gravel for bass spawning. I am not sure that the bass care. Two local ponds have golf ball sized crushed limestones ("1"-3" pieces) lining the bank and crushed fine limestone (1/8"-1/4") on the beach area. SMB in these two ponds routinely have hatches each year. The benefit to round river gravel is that it may stay cleaner with less attached algae growths than the limestones. But when the bass gets to cleaning the nest most loose debris gets brushed away.

More important than the shape or surface texture of the coarse gravel for bass (SMB) spawning, is to locate some sort of piece of structure adjacent to the nest such as a log, small cinder block wall, large boulder. Studies have shown that at least SMB prefer some sort of structure adjacent to the nest site. It is thought that the structure makes it easier for the bass to defend the nest against intruders. Defending two or three sides of a nest is easier (more successful) than defending a compeltely open nest that is vulnerable to 360 degree attack.

Britt - I am not sure that it was necessary to go to the extra work of putting the legs on the saucers. I think it is a good idea of using saucers since bass seem to create nest fairly distant from one another. I think the saucers would work just as well placed right on the dirt bottom. If one thinks the saucer needs to be leveled & raised off the bottom to keep it slightly less mucky then why not just lay the saucer on a used "recycled" large car tire that has been leveled onto a "step" or flat spot cut into the pond bottom. Tire will hold saucer off bottom and weight of gravel will hold saucer in the cavity of the tire. If you want the saucer higher off the bottom stack two tires and then place the saucer on top filled with gravel.

Bingo, Brettski! The saucer dodge worked - we got Cody to divulge more info on SMB spawning areas.

Another post to save in my permanent files.

Just think about it, Theo....someday we'll both look back reminiscing those glory days with the Saucer Dodge. Ah yes, dems were da days dontcha know.
Actually, it wasn't that big of a deal. I have wrestled with tires and now the saucers; I find them equivalent on the difficult and time consuming scale. No cost tires would beat the saucer cost, tho not by much. I have $4 total in each saucer assembly. I wanted to elevate them to eliminate catching soil run-off. The design also provides a small bonus room beneath.
If you review the last pic of the post, the orange survey flags are where the remaining saucers are slated for installation; 3 vertical rows of 3 saucers. Am I OK with this spacing?
I am intrigued with the idea of a unique structure item. Are you suggesting one out-structure per saucer? I could see stacking 3 full size cinder blocks in a short pyramid to the side of each saucer...?
Finally, I like the idea of the 3/4" - 1" round river rock. Winner?

The design also provides a small bonus room beneath.

Ya gotta love it! Open air condo below...nursery upstairs. As I've said before, you da man, Brettski.

When I die I want to come back as a SMB and live in your pond Brettski, Only all muscled up for a strong fight on the line and not fit to eat so I am tossed back in, the pond that is and not the skillet.

Brettski I have not seen you say what you want to spawn there. Did I miss that somewhere ? There are some threads here on SMB spawning areas and lots of good info elsewhere.

If you are thinking BG keep in mind they are colony nesters. The reasons have been set out in the Neff articles. There are some BG who are solitary nesters but not a big %.

Tell us what other info you are interested in wrt this matter. The 2 sets of pics below should help.

In these pics note the big rocks near by which serves the purpose Bill noted wrt logs and SMB and rock size.





Next BG beds

...comforting to know that Ewest keeps a firm but unrestrictive tether on my crazy dreams. Thanks. Nope, I never really got too involved with the ultimate detail...the icing on the cake. I am going to start another thread to beg oversight and assistance in my stocking plan. Please join me on the Help me adopt my fish family thread. Then, as these threads develope (I hope), they will promote each agenda to a sensible conclusion.

"The design also provides a small bonus room beneath."

I have doubts about the benefits of the open space below the saucer spawning devices on legs. Room underneath can allow smaller nest predators (usu fish) to collect and hide yet still remain in close proximity of the target. The male fish now not only has to watch out for 360 degree attacks and with the nest on legs the male has to watch out for intruders from below.

....arrgghhh
the dreaded free-loading home invaders! I'll bet most of 'em will be relatives!
Got a cheap/easy cure? Won't the out-structure provide a look-out for both areas?

My guess is that SMB would rather have the nest on the ground not on legs. Natural instinct is to be on the ground and protected. But you could do one each way and see what happens. I would put it on the ground and put a log , board or big rocks on the shore side and leave the deep water and crib sides open.

Brainstorm...dig this.
I drill a half dozen holes into the saucer perimeter and attach some of the snow fence as a curtain hanging down to the slope. It's already dark green and as stuff grows on it, it will lend even more appearance as a stump or something. And...I still get the bonus room for a fingerling playroom hideout.

"Brettski's Playhouse"

...alrighty, all the saucers are set.
Sorry for the washed out pic; it's a telephoto shot with lousy overcast lighting and a cheap camera:

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I plan to attach a "snow fence" perimeter curtain to each saucer as mentioned above. I also plan to place a larger rock next to each unit as out-structure to meet Cody zoning regulations.
We picked up another 6 - 7" of water since the last visit 3 days ago...gotta git goin'.

That looks like some weird world where living plastic evolved, as the first polyvinylphibians are bravely marching up out of the primordial plastigoop sea onto dry land.

I fear that if you don't get those things covered with water soon, you'll start to have visits from extraterrestrials. It's got to be sending some kind of message out to the galaxy.

As we discuss the proper environment to benefit SMB existance and spawning on the Help me adopt my fish family thread, there are some good structure ideas surfacing.
Bski gets one of his limited brainstorms:
Ewest replies, supporting the idea with practical experience:
Alrighty, then. I continue to operate with the reassurance that Dr Dave says that a key component to structure development is having fun. I'm not sure if I would call it fun, but...well...maybe this is what fun is like in my pond-life. Yeah, I'll go with that.
So, I pick thru the pile of 6" PVC pipe that I have in stock and remove the grungiest pieces to be sacrificed as artificial logs. Then, I purchase a bunch of lengths of the same 1/2" PVC pipe that I used for the PVC tree limbs. Yep, and the same 1" SS screws to stabilize the limbs. I goofed around in the basement and came up with the first 2 prototypes.

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Each unit is 3 sections of 6" PVC logs x 24" long. They are hinged on a pivot pin of 1/2" PVC pipe; 2 pivots per unit. The limbs are 1/2" x 24" PVC pipe. The units can be laid in at any geometry that works best. The ends of the outside logs have 1" holes drilled to accommodate a 3/4" rebar pin that will be pounded into the soil to anchor them.
I plan on 6 of these units. I will use the top configuration. They will be placed in between the vertical rows of the saucers. From top to bottom, each vertical row will be: saucer, log, saucer, log, saucer.
I still plan on working in a few larger double-basketball rocks, also. The snow-fence curtains around the saucers, too. After that, I quit with this zone (I hope).

Brettski again goes first class, over the top - note the fake wood grain applied to the PVC logs!

...pretty close to bein' done with the crib zone.
If I never have to ski down another slippery clay laden, saturated, cold and clammy slope again...it will be too soon.
OK, the PVC log units are in place. So are the perimeter sno-fence curtains on the saucers. We took on another dowsing of water since the last visit; good thing I made it out this time or I would be working on submerged structure.

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The curtains worked great, attached with drilled holes in the saucer perimeter and cable tys. The log units are firmly fastened to the slope, impaled with stout rebar pins. Man, does it look kooky in this area....nothing like the average Joe looks of the tire pyramids and PVC tree configurations. :rolleyes:
The water had gotten so high that I feared the next visit with the rock for the saucers might really suck...so...I used leftover rock from this last summer when we built the drain filter case. I had kinda forgetten about it. It's a mix of 1/2" - 2" shards with sharp corners. It's some kinda very hard, granite type landscape rock that's red in color. My pal Scott gave me a hand as we used what was available at the pondsite, working to fill the lowest saucers first. We had enough to do about 1/2 of 'em, buying some time to finish the saucers located at a higher elevation sometime soon. When I poured and spread out the last 5-gallon bucket load into a saucer, Scott notes to me a critical flaw with my plan: bass don't like red rocks. Thanks, pal.
This is another shot, not necessarily meant to detail the crib zone, but just barely catches a different angle on the typical PVC log installation geometry.

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Say bye-bye to the Rockytopper Lunker Stopper tire configuration, going down for the third time. Soon to bid adieu to the dry-hydrant intake, too.

Brettski,

Very cool stuff your making there!!

I'm wondering if your putting it all in the same place is counter productive? Is it ideal to have them all so close together, or spread them out in groups of two or three all around your lake?

The reason I ask is that they will attract you fish to them, and with high concentractions in one area, you wont have as many in other areas, and you might also limit how many fish are actually able to take advantage of them.

Again, I don't know about these things, I'm just curious.

Thanks,
Eddie

This entire zone morph'd from a the basic cribs. It is actually the 5th of 6 zones of man-made structure and/or rock.
This particular area started as the cribs. Then I realized that they provided great protection for fingerlings, but no connection to anything pertinent for spawning. This lead to expansive discussion on just what I planned to stock. Deciding that SMB was a likely player, I got too creative and came up with the saucers to create nearby, permanent rock beds that would be shallow enough, but still work on a 3:1 slope. Then the finetuning of my W-A saucer invention to give it a chance...by adding the sno-curtains and some nearby PVC log structure. This last stuff came from Bill Cody and Ewest's attempt to help me have any possible chance of success.
So, ultimately, this becomes a SMB spawning laboratory. Heck, I don't know what I'm doin' here. I'm taking solid, scientific data and analytical advice, adding my duct tape and spit, tryin' to re-invent the mouse trap.
What if it works?

Hey Brettski,

You replied to my post faster than I could get back to it. I was just looking at your other post with the pictures of your lake and all the structure you have all over the place. Lots and lots of it!!!

I forgot about those pictures and didn't realize you had done so much and had it spread out to the extent you do.

One thing I want to do in a few years, is to snorkle around my structure and see what's going on. I can't imagine what it will look like, but I sure want to find out!!

Who knows, maybe I'll find a waterproof digital camera that's cheap enough to take some pictures of what's using my structure???? LOL

Thanks,
Eddie

I can see it in a couple of years after the primordial plastigoop sea has filled the void.

Plasticous Perca flavescens laying their long strands of elastic plastic eggs on the cribs.

PVC Micropterus dolomieu guarding their poly predator babies over the inverted plastic mushroom tops.

Lepomis Polyvinylus microlophus crunching on thin polyshell snails with their thermoplastic polymer pharyngeal crusher plates.

Poly Pimephales promelas inside the Brettski logs nesting with their plasticizer tubercles emitting a sticky ooze.

All the while the first polyvinylphibians who through the thermal depolymerization process can safely and efficiently convert PVC into fuel and minerals ,are bravely marching toward the land and being consumed by the poly goop fish on their way. Sounds kinda like someone fishing with a plastic lizard !!

Honestly, Eric, I don't know where you come up with this stuff!

The mad Dr Ewest states:
...there has GOT to be something in there that needs to be moderated!

My head hurts from reading that.