Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Creating habitat Nearing completion, seeking advice

Just returned from a week in SW Oklahoma working on my new pond. It is 7+ acres and 49.1 acre/feet (according to NRCS). We buried 20 large (free!) tractor tires along south edge of the dug belly of pond and along the middle of the southern approaches to the pond. Also hauled in a load of limestone rocks and built some earthen ridges and trenches. Also cut and concreted in more than 40 green mesquite trees and plan to bury another 20 or so. Water depth at flood for most of this structure is 9 feet. Also "planted" some mesquite along ridges built in dug belly of pond. Pond is 33 feet at belly and about 27 feet at tops of ridges where trees are placed. New pictures are at:

http://photobucket.com/albums/d114/speardeep/Pond%20Progress/?sc=3

Now questions: I have access to some large oak trees that have fallen in creek elsewhere on the property. If I drag some into pond, how do keep them from floating around until they become waterlogged?

Should I add agricultural lime to the bottom of pond now? I know that a soil sample would be indicated, but I am back in Guam now and hate to task my brother any more than I have. Can it hurt anything?

The NRCS designed the pond with the natural 110 acres of watershed. We added two long terraces to catch 60 acres of additional water. I can always cut them if it means too much water, but that is just the sort of problem I would like to have in SW Oklahoma. As these terraces will have water moving rather quickly along them in the spring rains, are there any suggestions as to what I should plant along them? What could best survive occasionally rushing water?

This pond ends (starts?) at the base of the dam of an older pond to the south. I suspect it's full of bullheads. I am having trouble finding a local source for rotenone. NRCS could not help and recommended using Clorox, three gallons per acre/foot. Does anyone have experience or suggestions?

Can you have too much structure? I don't want to make the thing too hard to fish. I won't be able to keep my kids out of this thing, and I wanted structure that is swimmer-friendly.

Sorry for the long entry. I've been thinking about too much for too long. Many thanks, Tom

Tom,

Really shaping up as a great pond! The pictures will really help you remember where that structure was placed, if you are like most of us(or at least like me).

I can address a couple of the questions from my experience.

Regarding keeping the oak trees in place, I purchased several bags of the redi-mix concrete and placed them on the trunks of the trees I had moved into my pond. Cost $3 per bag or so and if you place them properly on the trunk, the branch end of the tree will actually suspend making terrific structure, very natural like. Other material could be used if you have it, but the concrete bags are very easy to place where you want them. To be double sure of keeping them in place you may want to tie them on to the trunk with some rope. My trees were not huge, however and if yours are very large, this may not work.

Lime: The best thing to do is get a soil test, but failing that, ask the county agent and/or nearby neighbors how much lime is required in the local ponds. Generally that is a fairly safe way, short of a soil sample, although variations can happen within short distances. If you need lime, now is the best time to do it, before the pond fills.

Great advice, as usual, Meadowlark. Without going back to check, it seems like you wrote that the lime also helped to clear your ponds? My soil is heavy clay, which is great for sealing the pond, but it will stay muddy without some effort.
The oak trees are fairly large, perhaps 2.5 feet in diameter. Not sure if it is worth the effort. We have a nearly endless suppy of tractor tires, and they are more swimmer-friendly than a tree. Perhaps I will stick with them. Thanks much, Tom

Tom, I might add that floating cover/structure is also good for bunching up bait and predator fish.

For these Oaks, you could take a long chain (maybe 15-20') and fasten one end to the Oak and loop the other end around 3-5 cinder blocks.

That way, the Oak would generally stay in one area, and if it never sank, no big deal.

An important note is to give as much slack in the chain to compensate for high water levels. For instance, if you put the Oak in 10' of water, and the water can fluctuate by +/- 3', then you want to have a minimum of 13' of chain between the log and the cinder blocks.

Tom :

Drive a post into the pond bottom where you want the tree and tie the tree to it with strong nylon trot line string ( I use black). It will soon water log and stay put. If you think it might get loose in addition add the concrete as ML suggested. It is easier to do this with the lake down but can be done from a boat if needed (driving the post not moving in a large oak). I would not use clorox . Most co-ops have or can get rotenone as can your county agent. ewest

Ewest, that makes perfect sense and would be easy to do with the backhoe. We have a pipe driving sleeve and have had great success driving pipes through just about anything. We could bury the pipe deeply and attach it to the base of the tree with slack chains. And it is also a good point that we need not worry if it is slow to waterlog, as long as we can prevent the drift. Great advice. I wish I had discovered this forum earlier. We are going to start on the next pond very soon, but it will be much easier, I think. We are only going to move about 4000 yards of earth to dam a half mile creek/canyon filled with oak trees. It will be nearly choked with structure. Going to put in a more modern spillway. I need to get some pictures and ask for specific advice on that place too. We had already dug most of this pond before I discovered this forum. Thanks, all....Tom

Tom :

That would sure do the job. Be sure that in driving a pipe you do not drive it deeper than your clay bottom. If it goes through to sand you may cause a leak in the pond bottom. Those large oaks will be great cover for a long time as opposed to brush. ewest

I should have prefaced my comments with the fact that all of my structure placement efforts have been done with full water levels and from a boat.

Early on, I did it from a canoe. Talk about tough! It's hard to place structure with one hand without tipping the canoe and spilling your beer.

Tom,

Noticed you are planning another pond. If you are interested, a discussion on stocking strategies and uses in a multiple pond situation might be of benefit to you. With multiple ponds, you have the option to do some things that a single large pond can not do. Just make a post on that topic if you would like to discuss, and I will throw in my 2 cents worth.
A strategy which views the set of multiple ponds as a system, I believe is needed to make full use of those options.

Canepole -- one more thought or alternative for the tree placement. You could also "stake" the base of the tree on the shoreline above the water level. That way, the tree trunk and the branches can follow the bottom contour from shallow to deeper (depending on where you place them) water. Such an arrangement makes great structure, great fishing spots, and the largemouths often will nest near such trees.

I'm not sure exactly how to suggest "staking." I had this idea because we used to half cut trees along the water line, push them over into the water, but still leave some of the trunk attached so it did not need to be anchored. The tree would then waterlog, and stay on the bottom. Could you drive in a couple of big stakes, and then attach them to the tree trunk? Maybe a couple of 4X4's could be driven into the ground, drill a hole through the 4X4's, and then run some steel cable to hold down the tree trunk (attach it to the 4X4's)?

Dave, that sounds very reasonable, but my brother has talked me out of putting a tree in there at all. He thinks some people would consider it an eyesore...some people like my wife. Since we plan to have a house there, perhaps I need to stick with less visible structure. But that plan sounded like a good one. Perhaps she will run off with the cabana boy, as soon as I can afford a cabana, and I can drag the oak tree over later. We are "planting" another 18 submerged mesquite trees trees today. The trunks on some of these trees exceed 6 or 7 inches in diameter. I think and hope that they will outlast most of us. Ray Scott says that the submerged stuff lasts about forever, and for those of you not blessed with mesquite, it is extremely heavy and hard. Much tougher than oak.

Meadowlark, I will start the second topic now. I am very interested in the stocking information. Thanks all, Tom

Tom, regarding the tires that you have placed, did you drill some holes in the top-most parts?

Someone had previously posted that at first, you want all air to escape, and then over the life of the pond, you want any gases that can build up to be able to escape also.

As far as the oak trees, at their large size, now is the time to do it as it may get to be impossible once the water is in.

You bring up a good point about the "look" of the pond. Some like their ponds to be manicured and very clean looking while others like the more natural/wild look. I think that having some structure break the water surface or shoreline gives visual points of interest as opposed to blights.

Sunil, we haven't completed the job yet, but I purchased a hardened steel 1" diameter hole saw after I was unable to purchase the burr that had been recommended in the forum. I hope that we can cut between the lugs on the tops of the tires. The tires are fantastically heavy, but I know the power of air to lift things underwater. I hope it works.

I'm still mulling over the tree options. I love thinking about this stuff. I have dreamed about doing this since I was in elementary school. Never thought I would get it done. I always enjoyed getting ready to fish almost as much as the fishing. Same with this process. I have two young sons, and I guess someday they will be dividing this land. I hope to have two great ponds for them to divide. This deep pond might last for hundreds of years. It is almost impossible to build anything else that might last as long. After my family, this has given me more pleasure than anything in my life. If I never catch a fish, it was already worth the expense.

Tom, I think I can safely advise you that it's only going to get better and better! If you couldn't already tell, it's an obsession.

As for the tires, getting the air out was in order to get them to sink. They way you have them half buried, I would guess that they are not going to move. Once they are underwater, someone had wrote that certain types of algae build-ups could give off noxious gases. The holes will prevent any potential build up.