Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Jhawk, BattleRidge, RemingtonRanch, JSkid2, IND1371
18,416 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,839
Posts556,269
Members18,417
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,289
ewest 21,454
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,075
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 277 guests, and 202 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 47
D
DaveB Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
D
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 47
Has anyone tried the method of carpet roll tubes as a base to get Christmas trees to stand vertically on the pond floor? Basically put a tree in a carpet roll tube, fill with concrete and lower them to the bottom so they stand up in the water column.

Any other method you guys have used that work to keep trees standing vertically for a number of years?

I have around 200 trees to plant in a big lake.

Dave

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,587
D
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
D
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,587
Dave -- the carpet roll tube method works well, but is time-consuming. When we do a 200-tree project, we usually have a good-sized group of people. The primary advantage, of course, is setting those trees in an upright placement.

I'll see what other comments you get before I say anything else. :-) Usually lots of good ideas here.

Dave


Subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

From Bob Lusk: Dr. Dave Willis passed away January 13, 2014. He continues to be a key part of our Pond Boss family...and always will be.
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 47
D
DaveB Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
D
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 47
Dave:

I have a group of 30 volunteers ready to go! I wonder if the trees will remain upright by cementing the bases? I am looking for a source for the carpet roll tubes now. I have not seen any with a diameter greater than about 6". Were you able to find them in 12" diameter or do you use the smaller diameter tubes and just put the tree base in and provide a longer length of tube to hold more concrete? How many pounds of quickcrete do you think I need to use to sink and keep a 5' cedar Christmas tree on the bottom? I don't want them to move around when guys snag them when fishing.

In the past I have used wire and attached the base of the tree to a block of concrete. Over time I note that they end up laying on their side in the mud on the bottom.

I was thinking of grouping the trees in 10 tree groupings in shallow water (10') with immediate access to deep water slopes and drop offs. I have lots of hard mud points (devoid of hard wood) and some rocky islands (1' - 3' boulder rocks) that should be perfect spots to have tree structure on them to help attract and concentrate the bass plus add shelter for bluegill. I have a lot of water fluctuation in our 100 acre lake. Our lake has risen better than 10' in the last two weeks...amazing amount of rain we are getting now...still raining! Our lake rises on the average 3" for every inch of rain we get.

Thanks for your input...please tell me more on how I can do my Christmas tree project.

Dave

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,587
D
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
D
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,587
Hi Dave. A few more thoughts.

Yes, these trees do stand upright for many years. Of course, we typically drop them where there are several feet of water over top of the trees (safety reasons in public waters). If you let them sink, and release them upright, they do stand up. I don't think they would come up with any type of "normal" fishing line, but those flathead catfish guys might dredge one up? :-) Remember, the wood also waterlogs, and they get pretty heavy. When we were doing studies on yellow perch spawning, we'd lift them with a 3/8 or 1/2 inch poly rope.

Obviously, you never can say never, as some might tip. However, last summer I went over a 200-tree reef that we placed through the ice about 10 years ago. Many, many of those trees (no way or really telling) are still standing upright as shown on my electronics while fishing.

I don't have a good feel for just how much those 12 inch bases weigh when they have 6-8 inches of concrete. Let me check in with my buddy at the Game, Fish and Parks office tomorrow. He's a practical guy, and may have a guess for you. I also wonder if the 12-inch width wouldn't be a lot more stable than a 6-inch diameter on the base. We got those carpet tubes at a carpet store -- nothing special, to the best of my recollection.

I have at times just sunk trees in piles, using cinder blocks or concrete blocks for weight. I'm not sure that those light cinder blocks can take down more than one Christmas tree. A heavy cement block can take down two or three, depending on how big they are. If you have some cedar trees, they take quite a bit more weight. I remember one time working with a bass club in Kansas. I had one cement block cabled to a good size cedar tree. I pushed it over, and it floated! That's a tad bit embarassing, and hard on your credibility! Now, it's mostly just funny.

If you attach trees to the blocks with wire or cable, I'd suggest you stack them pretty several trees deep. As they settle, you want to maintain some vertical height on the overall structure. Also, I've seen people nail, screw, or wire Christmas trees to pallets to create 3-d structures (pallet on bottom, four trees at corners, pallet at top, etc.). Those are good ideas, too.

I like the idea of 10-tree groups (depending on whether you stack them or not), and I really like putting the trees on the edges of drop-offs, etc., as you said. Good plan.

Again, I'll bet you'll get some more ideas here over the next day or so.

Dave


Subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

From Bob Lusk: Dr. Dave Willis passed away January 13, 2014. He continues to be a key part of our Pond Boss family...and always will be.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,973
G
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
G
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,973
Dave not sure if easier or harder. here you go. Place small piece of 4x4 in bottom of 5 gallon bucket (Free from pool or sheetrock guys). Place tree in bucket sacrete with 3/4 80 lb bag. On outside of bucket attach with ringshank nails 2 1X4's cut 3 ft in length. This is nailed into the small 4x4 inside bucket. Spin the 1x4 to form an X. They stand pretty well. Only problem trees only last about 4 years. Have fun!


Greg Grimes
www.lakework.com
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,892
D
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
D
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,892
Do cedars of the same size last longer than Xmas trees? 4 years doesn't seem long enough.

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,973
G
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
G
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,973
Nope 4 years as about all we get out of all types of conifer species. HArdwood seems to last longer. This is why we make artifical "trees" with PVC. More money up front but will be there forever.


Greg Grimes
www.lakework.com
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 47
D
DaveB Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
D
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 47
Greg:

Do you have any pictures or links to pictures of pvc tree structures?

Dave

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 47
D
DaveB Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
D
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 47
Thanks Dave. Let me know what your buddy has to say.

Dave

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,256
D
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
D
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,256
Dave-
I am not sure about the longevity of this method seeing as how we just tried it, and it would probably be a bit costly for a big job of 200 trees (we only did 4)...but here's what we did:

First we took old tire rims (ours were 4 rims off an old ford pickup) and inserted the trees upright down through the middle of the rims. Next, we drilled two holes near the base of the tree about a foot apart, so one hole would be just above the top of the rim and the other just below the bottom of the rim. The catch here is that the holes need to be opposite each other (almost like they would intersect to make an X if they weren't a foot apart) Next, we took 2 ft. long pieces of 3/8" rebar and put one through each hole (1ft. might work, depending on tree and rim size). After welding the rebar to the rims, the tree is locked in place. Since the pieces of rebar are not running the same direction, the tree cannot slide from side to side while inside the rim either. We put them in the pond last weekend, some completely submerged and some about 6" sticking out of the water. It has worked like a charm so far. Like I said, I don't know how that would work on a large scale, but for our small job it worked. With the rims, rebar, and welding, the trees are also not tipping over or moving an inch any time soon. I took some pictures of the process, and I'll try to post a few if anyone would care to see. Hope that helps and have fun with it!

Dave V


"Only after sorrow's hand has bowed your head will life become truly real to you; then you will acquire the noble spirituality which intensifies the reality of life. I go to an all-powerful God. Beyond that I have no knowledge--no fear--only faith."
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,345
Likes: 96
Editor, Pond Boss Magazine
Lunker
Offline
Editor, Pond Boss Magazine
Lunker
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,345
Likes: 96
Gentlemen,
Dave Willis wrote a great article about this very subject in Pond Boss, November/December, last issue...hmmm, anybody out there read this magazine? I heard it's pretty good. Subscriptions available.


Teach a man to grow fish...
He can teach to catch fish...
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 47
D
DaveB Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
D
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 47
Bob, your comment - "last issue...hmmm, anybody out there read this magazine? I heard it's pretty good. Subscriptions available. " I have a subsription to your magazine and have turned on others to buy subcriptions too. I read the last article by Dave. It was a good one by the way Dave...thanks for posting here and expanding on it.

Is there a problem with asking questions on topics that have been recently written about in your magazine? Maybe I am taking your post the wrong way?

Cheers,

Dave

P.S. - Big Dave, Dave and Greg...thanks for your ideas...I appreciate them guys. It is great to have a site like this where I can come to get lots of ideas on pond and lake management from others willing to share.

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 99
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 99
I'd like to follow-up with Greg or anyone else who has made artificial "trees" out of PVC or other materials. I have a perch population in my pond and was told they need a structure off from the bottom to string their eggs. Since we are in the doldrums of winter, it might be a good time for us members to work on projects such as this to install in the spring and enjoy the summer. So, any digital PHOTOS of "trees" or other easy and inexpensive artificial habitats to make would probably be most appreciated. There have been some fantastic ideas shared in this forum.

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 47
D
DaveB Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
D
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 47
Photos -

Here is a picture of a bluegill structure we build and have placed in the center of shallow coves. We have 20 of these around the 80 acre lake. We add brush to them annually and re-sink them. They are made of 1" PVC pipe with snow fence zip tied around the 5'x 5'x 5' shape. We have the corner's of the pens weighted with 3 lb. lead weights. The holes in the fence allow bluegill to access the center of the pen and keep larger bass out. They can snag lures like crank baits, but otherwise are ok with a Texas rigged worm. They act as great bass magnets and cover for bluegill.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/ahieater/DSC00918.jpg

Here are some photos of large trees that I placed in the shallows with access to a drop off. These structures are now under approx. 10' of water. I attached them to the lake bottom by staking them down with heavy wire attached to concrete blocks I buried in the bottom. They act as great magnets for bass. I placed approx. 20 of these hard wood trees in the lake this dry season. Hard work...but worth the effort when you can drive your boat around a lake and know exactly where to cast to catch bass consistently. I have all the structure photographed at the low water levels when it is placed and the GPS location of each recorded. I carry all the photos and GPS numbers on laminated sheets in a binder that I carry on my boat when fishing. My wife says that I'm cheating and making fishing too easy..lol.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/ahieater/DSC00662.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/ahieater/DSC00663.jpg

Hope this helps. Anyone have any structure photos they could share?

Dave

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,587
D
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
D
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,587
Say, DaveB -- I got an answer back from my buddy (Todd St. Sauver) on an approximate weight of cement in those 12-inch diameter tubes.

"They average 50 pounds but can vary quite a bit. We don't cut all tubes to the exact same length and we vary the amount of concrete by the size of the tree. Nothing scientific, we just WAG it. Less concrete for smaller trees, more for bigger ones."

Too many Dave's on this post!! :-) We better start adding initials.

Dave "W"


Subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

From Bob Lusk: Dr. Dave Willis passed away January 13, 2014. He continues to be a key part of our Pond Boss family...and always will be.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,075
Likes: 455
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,075
Likes: 455
Dave B. asked- "Is there a problem with asking questions on topics that have been recently written about in your magazine? Maybe I am taking your post the wrong way?"

Dave, I'm sure Bob Lusk was just telling all forum readers that if they wanted to read a complete article about Xmas trees as structure that a good one was printed in a recent PBoss magazine.

I'm sure all questions are welcome on the forum esp when they lead to more indepth information and additional details.


aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,902
R
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
R
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,902
Dave B,
 Quote:
Is there a problem with asking questions on topics that have been recently written about in your magazine? Maybe I am taking your post the wrong way?
You are new. Do a search using Bob's member number as criteria & you will answer your own question.
As long as it's pond related it is welcome here.
If you had a magazine with a related article in a recent issue would you not reference it in this thread?
I've been following this thread also & thought of the article but dumb me it didn't occur to mention it.
Wish I had done so now so Bob wouldn't of had to.


Pond Boss Subscriber & Books Owner


If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military!
Ric
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 13,912
Likes: 265
Moderator
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Lunker
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 13,912
Likes: 265
"Too Many Daves?" Which one of you is Bodkin Van Horn?


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,587
D
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
D
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2,587
Theo -- should we start calling you Dr. Seuss?? :-)


Subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

From Bob Lusk: Dr. Dave Willis passed away January 13, 2014. He continues to be a key part of our Pond Boss family...and always will be.
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,973
G
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
G
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 3,973
DaveB it is embrassing I have no pictures of my own PVC creations. My excuse is that I bough a $550 digitial camera and dropped first week. It was $450 to repair. I'm about to break down after a year and get another one.

Anyway there are tons of pictures around on past issues of POnd Boss and internet. It seems from your pictures your creative. Just start stacking pvc in buckt of concrete and see how it turns out. We usually put a 45 or 90 on end wit another short piece to add some "character". Really no wrong way to make 'em. Great Tire idea too!


Greg Grimes
www.lakework.com
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 99
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 99
DaveB--Thank you for the pictures. The bluegill crib looks like a pretty good device for not only protecting fry and minnows, but also to support perch egg "strings" during their spring spawn. I think the snow fencing is crucial to provide a surface for the gellatous mass to cling to, as I don't know that PVC alone would allow that to happen. I hope Greg breaks down and gets a new camera to see his ideas. If there are other pictures of artificial structures out there and you can identify them, it would be most appreciated. In the meantime, can anyone provided an educated guess as to how many structures should be sunk per acre of water, as well as the most favorbale places to sink them? May seem like a dumb question, But it may help all of us to do things right. Thanks folks, for any other contributions or advice.

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,902
R
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
R
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,902
Here's a post by Bob Lusk:

 Quote:
Bob Lusk
Pond Boss Staff
Member # 3

Member Rated:
posted January 31, 2003 10:34 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another option is PVC pipe "trees", anchored with a concrete block. You can take 1" PVC, cut into six foot lengths. Then, six inches from one end, drill a half inch hole. Spin the pipe 1/4 turn, drill another half inch hole six inches down....do this to the bottom. Then, take six foot lengths of half inch PVC and push them through the holes. That makes one "tree". Then, couple several together and position them to sink into 6-8 foot waters.
Personally, I like hardwood tree limbs, too. Keep this in mind...you are trying to attract fish, both baitfish and game fish. So, you need some cover to be dense, some to be "fluffy". And, for a 3/4 pond, three to five "piles" of cover are enough . Your goal? No more than fifteen percent of the pond should have cover . And, stay away from the deepest areas. Put most cover peripherally.
(Bold by me)

Here's another thread:

http://www.pondboss.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000020

There are dozens of threads on structure, just search for structure.


Pond Boss Subscriber & Books Owner


If you can read this ... thank a teacher. Since it's in english ... thank our military!
Ric
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 99
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 99
Thanks, Ric. I will work with all of these posts and ideas. I especially like the information on how many and where to place these structures.

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7
B
Junior Member
Offline
Junior Member
B
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 7
FOr what it's worth, We used the 5 gallon bucket(greatest invention known to man) method with sacrete. HOwever,we cut off about about a foot from the top of the tree and inserted the tree upside down so the bottom of the tree is at the top. We also added several 2" hardwood branches.


Steve Brewer
502-649-9988
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 121
B
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 121
I set Christmas trees in 5 gallon buckets standing straight up in concrete. I trimmed the lower branches so that the bottom of the tree would sit flush on the bottom of the bucket. I left 2 inch stubs when I cut the lower branches to help hold the tree in the concrete and also hammered in 2 long nails into the trunk. I plan to loop a rope through the handle of the bucket to be able to lower the tree where I want it in the lake. If I don't get it in the right spot, I should be able to lift the tree with the rope and move it. Once I get it placed properly, I can just pull the rope out. Sounds easy, but I will find out this weekend.


Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
Reno403
Recent Posts
Otters Strike Again!
by Rangersedge - 03/01/24 10:03 PM
HOA pond got drained and nobody knows why
by Rangersedge - 03/01/24 10:00 PM
Red mouth
by shooterlurespond - 03/01/24 09:43 PM
Chestnut other trees for wildlife
by Rangersedge - 03/01/24 09:32 PM
Osprey Goes Double Fisted
by FishinRod - 03/01/24 09:11 PM
New pond middle TN: establishing food chain?
by Bill Cody - 03/01/24 08:09 PM
What Kind of Moss?
by Bill Cody - 03/01/24 07:48 PM
HBG - Catfish
by FireIsHot - 03/01/24 05:18 PM
Managing black crappie
by Pat Williamson - 03/01/24 02:49 PM
Fountain Location?
by TigerFanatic1 - 03/01/24 12:28 PM
Help with everything
by FishinRod - 03/01/24 11:03 AM
Low pH, low Alkalinity in Fresh ponds/Lakes
by ewest - 02/29/24 01:29 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5