Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Geogia Giant Argument Clinic

Feel free to discuss (OK, argue about) GG here.

NOTICE: ALL SUBJECT MATTER AND OPINIONS EXPRESSED HERE MAY BE REPEATED IN A MODIFIED FORM ON OR ABOUT APRIL 1, 2006 FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES.
If I think it would be funny.

OK, will start. Theo, glad you started this. I do not want to hash all that has already been said b/f. I want to keep this thread to arguements and leave the other alone b/c believe it or not I want to see the resutls from ML or others that have stocked GG.

On this subject I kinda feel like I do with some friends, my city friends call me a redneck and my redneck friends call me a city boy. I do not hate GG nor will I jump on board and defend.

I will be the first to say I slamed Ken's almost every time they came up on this board. I had a good reason for this based on records given to me from past clients. I repeadely saw ponds that were over stocked past the carrying capacity of the pond. It was never about the fish with me. I saw where folks might get suckered in to over stocking so I said something. I had nothing to gain from this ( in fact been called several names for saying what I know to be true), just I thought I was trying to help. So the talk on GG has never fulled addressed this stocking issue.

Now on the present I have sold the GG to two clients and made a little money on second order. Why, b/c they fit the bill. Which as discussed by others is a pond where you want agressive fish and if Fx generations are not growing well not too much troule to drain and start over.

So feel free to fault me for slamming them in the past and feel free to slam me b/c I'm a sucker and sold some. However this is how I feel about them. Only time will tell how they do when stocked in low numbers than rec. in catalog.

I have always posted about my Georgia Giants but have never told the whole story. Here goes.
I planned my pond for about two years before I started construction, wish I knew about Pond Boss then. Read every thing I could find about construction and stocking, mostly university publications. They all suggest the standard bass/ bluegill/ maybe catfish mix.
My goals for the pond were always the same; a great place to catch alot of good size fish and as many as possible types of fish. The 10 Lbs LMB was not that important to me.
Both my Mom and Dad grew up in the country in middle Georgia during the depression and you fish for protein first fun second. It was cane poles red wigglers and small inbread bream
As a child I fished the same ponds with my Dad, now it was fun first, but it was still cane poles and bream. A 1/2 pound bream was huge. Back to the pond I have lots of friends and family who had build or renovated ponds in Georgia in the last few years before I started my pond. Many got fish for the State for free but the others all got fish from Kens and kept braging about their bream.
So I sent of for the catalog and when it finally came I could not believe the difference in appproach to stocking from every thing else I had read
Started talking to Ken, decided to stock cats and GG in the spring of 2000 then HSB and LMB that fall. Did not get my order in time for the spring and Kens had sold out of GG, so I stocked just my cats. Went to pick them up at the Hatchery. It was Saturday so I had a two hour wait for my fish. Got to spend the time with Ken. The guy is a hoot. Is he a millionaire, he says no I say yes many times over, but he needs to drop a couple bucks on his and Debs office.
The cats are in and I get my first bag of fish chow, there is an ad for Pond Boss on the back. My check is in the mail the next day. Went to their message board, this is the old one, it was one continous thread of question and answers. Bob posted most days, probably had 25% of the traffic this board has now. Few of us are left from the old board me, Lusk, dave, Frank and I think Cecil.
Going through the old posting there were a couple question about GG all answers were very negitive.
Now I did not know what to do, Ken did sell regular bream so I decided to order those for the fall. Called ken and place the order for bluegill, he ask me why I change my mind of GG and I told him I did not want a pond full of Greensunfish. After 15 minutes of his ranting raving and hollering I place my order for 2500 GG.
I know stocking is a issue with Ken and I stocked 800 an acre with no pressure to order more.
Now we have Greg posting and Shan posting and I am convinced again I have made a mistake. So the next spring I stock 500 coppernose and 150 redear. But over the winter my 2-3 inch GG are now 6 inch GG.
Now four years later here is where the pond is, GG up to 1.5 lbs, coppernose just under a pound. most or all yoy seem to be coppernose. No Greensunfish. Fat LMB and HSB. Fish are fed every day.
My observations; Do they grow faster than regular bream yes, do they grow larger than regular bream yes, are they more aggressive than regular bream very much so.
Do they grow 300% faster than regular bream mine did not, do they taste better than regular bream to me no.
If I was starting over with a pond what changes would I make, probably none it has work perfectly for my goals

Bill,

With apologies to Theo for not arguing, I wanted to bounce an observation off of you and see if it matches your experience. From almost the very first day, it was clear to me that this interesting fish was different in its behavior from the BG, CNBG, or GSF I'm very familiar with.

The GG's that I have feed heavily on minnows...at the surface. They attack them almost like a LMB and certainly unlike a BG. I've watched them even during the cold spell hitting fatheads and Gambusia minnows. I've never seen a BG feed like these fish do. I wonder if maybe that has something to do with your observed growth rates? It explains to me the reason that the GG program includes a stocking of Gambusia. Someone knew what they were doing on that one.

Have you observed the same and have you checked stomach contents of some caught GG's? Perhaps my fish were simply conditioned that way at the hatchery and will revert to more normal BG behavior over time?

p.s. thanks for telling your interesting story

ML, I did not follow Kens plan. I stocked fatheads with the bass. They were gone soon. Fishing is different at the dock we can catch GG as quick as we want to, but to catch coppernose we have to get away from the dock(and feeder) I think the GG drive them away. The cats and GG do not seem to feed at the same time, one or the other.

I really need to be in this clinic, I know my IQ, and I understand what I read. I would expect a Green Sunfish cross to eat minnow sized offspring from any species. That leads me to a question, if one decides to stock a predator, did I miss out on where the LMB no longer dominates as the T-Rex did ? This is just my guess...the GG's will devour their forage base and offspring, the HSB will also become stunted...unless money is spent on artificial feed to make them all comfortable and fat. But then, we just went full circle and figured out why the GG's need such a high stocking rate, right ?

Ok now my story (warning to all it will be longer than usual ):

Until my employment at the hatchery, my only hands on dealing with a fish had come at the end of a rod and reel or a cane pole (my personal favorite). You seldom land a really good job without some Master’s degree in your field, so after spending one year as a stay at home mom I had actually decided to go back to school. Enter problem #one: my husband at the time was a city police officer, and his check alone could no longer pay the bills. So I hit the paper hard in search of a decent paying job that would not take weekends and nights away from my child. I put the thought of furthering my education on the back burner (I have now decided to trudge ahead on that one with the help of my parents and some gentle nudging by a few pond boss members), and I visited Ken’s Hatchery for an interview. Small office in an old fish cookout house, no insurance at the time (although my spouse had us on city coverage), and outside bathrooms (like a service station) made me ponder. But the people . . . the employees and Ken were all very welcoming and friendly. I was offered the position immediately, but I went home to do a few pros and cons before accepting the job a few days later. I read the catalog thoroughly during my decision making days, and was impressed at all of the accomplishments Ken had made. As I stated above I did not know a lot about fish much less stocking rates and water quality, so I had to do a lot of on the job training so to speak.
In the beginning I threw out the 3000 per acre stocking rates because it was easy. As time went by and I researched more (then got on this site), I modified my approach to learning as much as I could for the customer in reference to goals etc. I learned to ask the right questions in regards to pond size, age, current residents, location, and as I said above goals. I can honestly say that in my two years of employment I have never heard of anything more than 3000 GG being stocked. I don’t know about the pre-Deb years, but that has been my experience. Ken explained to me at the start of my employment that he had run several experimental ponds with the GG numbers. He increased their population in separate ponds up to 3000 total, where he found them to be most aggressive. Have I heard him suggest maximum stocking to customers, yes. But I have also heard him recently take on an approach more like mine. He sits right beside me in the office so I am sure he has picked up on a lot of my conversations. I have also made it a point to explain to the other girls in the office the need to find customer goals. We don’t have any true salespeople in the office. We have an accounts payable, an accounts receivable, and a shipping clerk/assistant lab tech. This being said you can imagine how frustrating it gets sometimes for them when they have no science background. They previously were not interested in the science behind the subject, and at times have poked lightly at me for my “addiction” to this forum. They have actually come to rely on me so much lately that I don’t get half of my job done in an orderly fashion, but that is ok, as they are learning to do it the right way.
So you ask what the recommended stocking rate is. That answer falls back to customer goals. Lets start like this:
A customer calls in with a brand new one acre pond and no particular goal in mind but to have fun. I suggest 1000 GG, 200 HSB, and 5000 Gambusia minnows. I question the customer in regards to artificial feeding and aeration. If they plan to do both I then suggest between 1000-2000 GG with the predator ratio about the same. I then ask again what they want out of the pond in reference to catch and release versus fish out. I also question their ability for personal pond maintenance and some “hands on” approach. In other words do they have daily access to the pond, and are they planning on keeping up with water quality issues. If, and only if, they are going at it like a professional (constant maintenance, keeping the fish they catch versus releasing them, aerating the pond, supplementing the feed, . . . ), I mention that they could possibly go with 2000-3000 to the acre. Hybrid bream (especially the GG) are well known for their aggressiveness and willingness to go after a hook. On that fact alone it is possible to dwindle the original stock after a one year grow out. The high predator number will come across as extreme to almost everyone here, but please understand that the goal with a GG based pond is not for a full size predator grow out. The predators are “second choice” with their main job to be disposing of FX generations.
Most forum members are LMB fisherman. Nothing wrong with that at all, but the GG are not the fish for you. Does that mean it is a bad fish? Not at all, it just is an end unto itself. Let me state again that YOU WILL NOT GROW TROPHY LMB IN A GG POND.
Greg and I have cut and bruised one another various times over the past three months, but I think we have both healed. I understand his concern in regards to previous stocking rates he heard about or saw from his customers. But the fact of the matter is neither he nor I was actually there. Our testimonies would not stand up in court because they would be hearsay. Did the customer request more fish then regret it? Did Ken have a temporary bout of insanity? Or is there just a simple answer of misunderstanding on both parts? We will never know. Greg I want to propose an offer to you. Let’s see what transpires from this point on and put the past in the past. I am by no means saying I know it all when it comes to this business, or for that matter the GG itself. I can honestly say that I am the only person on this forum who deals with various GG customers on a daily basis, and I can without a doubt promise you that I have applied what I have learned here on this forum to my job.
Eastland it is possible to have GG in a LMB pond, but don’t expect a group of whopper LMB’s. The GG will eat what they can, but even the 5 lb. freak of nature GG only had a mouth the size of a half dollar. I have heard from many customers who stocked LMB with the GG, and they actually ended up several years down the road with a substantial decrease in the GG population. LMB are great fun, but they too will eat whatever they can fit in their mouths (including their siblings).

So the ultimate question I must ask myself is if I would stock GG in a pond of my own. The answer is yes, and that is based on my goals. I have very fond memories of my father and me fishing in my parent’s pond on lazy Sunday afternoons. We would spend about 15-30 minutes digging red wigglers out of dad’s garden, rig up my cane pole, and head down to the pond. Fishing for me back then usually involved a lounge chair or blanket, a good book or drawing tablet, and my trusty cane pole with a bucket of wigglers. Dad always opted for the rod and reel as he scooted around the banks of their three-acre pond. Now I have Ryan (three years old) and have discovered the fun that comes with fishing for GG and HSB. No cane poles there friends. Little buggers hit too quick and pull too hard. So yes, for my goals on a pond that I could enjoy with my son and my dad I would opt for the GG and the HSB. Would I stock 3000 to the acre? Nope because although I would enjoy some artificial feeding with Ryan at my side, I do not have the time or funds to aerate, cull out, or properly maintain a pond like that. Just my personal preference, but that is what all this "pond stuff" is really about, right?

My opinions are based on 26 years experience as a private fisheries biologist and consultant in a specific niche, primarily working with absentee landowners who live in the city and own recreational property in the country. My first experience with hybrid sunfish was from a company who believed passionately in that fish. In 1981, I bought some, and stocked them in a hatchery pond, and fed them. These fish were crosses between male bluegill and female green sunfish. The company bragged these fish would grow beyond two pounds by the end of their second year. I fed them faithfully. By the end of the second year, the biggest fish were 3/4 pound (nice fish), ranging from 2 ounces to the bigger fish. But, seine samples showed young of the year, with many babies showing 'snub' noses. We drained that pond, harvested the fish, sold a few, and put the rest of the largest fish back into the pond, when it was refilled. I fed the fish another year, and the population seemed to even out, but the largest fish still was pushing a pound. The next year, two fish were larger than one pound, and most made it to 3/4 pound. By that time, I had stocked a number of ponds of customers, and was receiving information from them. 3/4 pound was the average. I moved on, changed locations, and kept trying hybrid sunfish. I raised hybrid sunfish in hatchery conditions for 8 years, never grew a fish larger than 1.5 pounds, with most of them growing up to 3/4 pound. By then, I had read all the propaganda, including Ken's Fish Hatchery. By the end of the 8th year, I came to the conclusion hybrid sunfish would serve a niche, but all the propaganda was nothing more than that, words. To further put my opinion to rest was a statement made by the owner of the company which delivered fish over much of the country, touting hybrid sunfish as his marquee fish. When I asked him, straight up, why he preferred hybrid sunfish over others, his response was simple, and profound. He told me, "They live longer and more active on a truck for several days." I shook my head, and developed the opinion which I hold to this day.
I believe hybrid sunfish are one tool in the pond manager's tool kit. It fits a niche. If someone wants to grow sunfish up to 3/4 pound, deal with a small amount of reproduction, have an aggressive, fairly fast growing sunfish, take a look at hybrid sunfish. Don't buy into the propaganda these fish will reach five pounds. My experience says they won't. Two pounds? Maybe, if all conditions are perfect. But, two pounds is huge, in anyone's book. Expect 3/4 pound, and if that's good for you, it's good for me. Next, the reason hybrids seem to be more aggressive than bluegill is based on mouth size. They seem more aggressive because they CAN be because they have a larger mouth. Sunfish are aggressive, and those with a bigger mouth have a huge advantage in a pond scenario. Bigger mouths means bigger food, which means more food, which extrapolates to bigger fish faster, compared with bluegill or redear sunfish. The only time I recommend hybrid sunfish is for pond owners who want to diversify a catfish pond or to avoid other predator fish such as bass. If a pond owner wants to grow huge sunfish, and doesn't want bass, I'll suggest hybrid sunfish. If they want bass, I'll suggest bluegill, either native local strains or coppernose, which ever I believe is best suited to that environment.
Here's my bottom line on hybrid sunfish. If you want a fish which can grow to 3/4 pound, and reproduces just enough to create minor problems, use hybrid sunfish. Stock heavy, if you want lots of competition to maximize catchability. Use these fish for kid-fishing ponds, or for specific fly-fishing opportunities.
If you plan to develop a predator/prey relationship, especially for largemouth bass, avoid hybrid sunfish. They compete with bass, and the forage base.

It's been interesting following these GG threads. Interesting that all the PB members who have questioned the extraordinary claims or disagreed with the pro GG people have received alot of ratings & lost stars even though there are few proponents of the GG.
Bob has stated with eyes on personal experience what the majority of PBers believe to be true. With all his stature he has received only 16 ratings. I would bet without his stature on this forum, after his last post he would be dumped in the category with the rest of us doubters & his rating would reflect the anger of the GG promoters. The main promoters of the GG have chastised those that don't believe the way they do labeling them as close minded & negative The attacks by the GG promoters on those who seek proof of extraordinary claims should cease. Only then will we have a civil discussion/argument.

The discussions/arguments have at least produced some positive results as is witnessed in Deb's last post. I would submit had that post been made a couple of months ago the divisions on this topic would not be so stark.
Deb has stated several times she is in a learning mode & is to be commended for her openly willingness & desire to learn.

In the end it has been a benefit for both the PB Forum & Ken's that she has joined us.

Now let's stop the name calling & labeling & see how much more good we can do with this discussion/argument!

LOL Robinson, now I will have to come up with a sig too.

LOL Theo, I just realized you spelled Georgia like my late Grandpa pronounced it (without the first "r"). Brings back a lot of fond memories.

LUsk thanks for stating this. I agree. Also I have been told several times tha hybrid bream haul better and that I shoudl sell more for this reason. Deb thanks for stating your bass info, I agree. Also great news to here you are asking goals prior to stocking. I still think numbers are a little high but very reasonable.

One other point Ken has at least in the SE helped to change attitudes vs. cookie cutter stocking. Many DNR folks still think threadfin shad are not a good idea for bass growth much less gizzard shad. Not that Ken talks about that but helped to think outside the box.

However having said that like Robinson (like the sig) said it is his selling technique that bothered me. I would have to field calls from folks wanting to stock 3,000/acre and I would have to qualify myself when wanting to only stock 800 bg/200 re/acre. I would ask why else do you think I want to sell you less fish when I make money on every fish? They would also want to know how long it would take to get "my bream" to 4 lbs. It was just annoying and maybe Deb you can see why I got mad? Anyway like you said maybe that is changing somewhat?

I had a DNR guy tell me one time that Ken could have sold anything and been a millionaire he just went into the fish business. He is truly a world class salseman. I do not mean that in a negative way.

A most interesting thread.

Since Eastland has made a comment on IQ and Ric has again complained about past posts, I'm going to follow Bruce's admonition and "take the gloves off". I'm going to addresss a couple of things that have bothered me for several weeks.

First and most important to me goes back several weeks to a discussion between Greg and myself. Since that time, Greg and I have found that the differences between us are far fewer than things which we agree on. I have tried very hard to communicate to Greg that these discussions for me are never personal....I'm certainly not perfect, but try very hard to keep personal stuff out. I believe Greg understands that and together we mutually respect each other. Certainly I respect Greg.

Now to the point, during the previous post that I referred to, a Pond Boss poster wrote the following: " Greg, in case you haven't figured it out, he (meadowlark) HATES you and want to drive you off the Forum". I used quotes loosely as the exact words may be different.

I made a bad mistake. I let those terrible words go without responding thinking that the emotions were already too high and that someone on the Forum would rebuke those words anyway. No one offered any rebukes and as time went on Greg and I found we agreed on far more than we differed. Finally, I couldn't stand it anymore and I repudiated those statements in a private conversation with Greg.

The lesson I took from that very undesirable episode was I will no longer tolerate statements about my feelings, my integrity, and my personal life on this Forum without responding. I totally repudiate those remarks about hate and driving Greg from this Forum. Nothing, nothing could be further from the truth.

Now, secondly, regarding Eastland's IQ comment above. If that is another in a long string of personal attacks and insults directed at me, then I object. If not, then I'm sorry. You have already openly called me Meadowlard, accused me of personal relations with Deb, of altering the bill of sale on the purchase of the GG's, of killing fish (never did figure that one out) of being "taken in", of being on the take, etc., etc.

So, let me say very clearly, to make sure that I do not repeat past mistakes and let those totally ridiculous assertions stand:
1) I never met Deb before she joined this Forum, never had any knowledge of or dealings with Ken at any time in my lifetime. Had never seen his catalog nor heard anything except passing comments about his program. I am now very proud to call Deb my friend.
2) I paid the going rate for the GG's just like everyone else. Interestingly they are the same price as regular BG. If you want, I will post documentation of same.
3) Fish Killer...sorry still do not understand this one(maybe my IQ is too low ), but I don't think I like it either.
4) being "taken in". I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night. I was looking for an aggressive fish for my kid's pond. You may recall I asked the Forum about candidate fish, including the Texas Rio's. Deb came along and her fish sounded like it might be just the ticket. I thought it was worth a try. Haven't regretted the decision a single second. We are talking about 200 fish, 200 hundred fish, in a 1/4 acre pond..taken in, I hardly think so.
5) being on the take. I think I have already addressed that one but again let me say for the record that just like the Tilapia experiment I did several years ago and reported herein on, I have no financial interests involved in GG's at all. I'm in it for the fun only.


I join Ric in the hope that the personal comments disappear from this Forum. However, I will not, in the future, let "hate" comments stand without repudiation, nor will I accept personal assaults on my integrity from any poster. Lively discussion and debate is one thing, hate attributions are far different, especially in the days and times we live in.

My family reads these posts and hopefully that will include my young Grandson in the near future. I suspect many of you have the same. It is in everyone's interests to avoid the personal statements and stick to the facts on ponds as we each see them.

I sincerely hope this is the last time that anything personal related to me has to be addressed on this Forum. I pledge to do my best to avoid any personal comments, but reserve the right to defend myself and family against hate words. Thanks for reading.

As owner of this site, I choose to interject. I have not taken time to read and post as much as I like. There are several reasons. First, we have a number of thoughtful, intelligient people providing insight. I'm not needed as much as in the beginning. Secondly, my business has grown phenomenally the last two years. I've been busier making a living.
I will try to be here more often, to pay attention to personal comments, and answer questions where needed.
Here's my new policy. Any demeaning personal comments directed toward anyone who posts on this site will immediately be deleted. I won't edit, I will delete. I don't necessarily object to negative comments, but I do object to personally directed negative comments. One thing I have noticed...there are several people of great integrity who have stopped posting, or have diminished their participation. If anyone reads something they consider personally degrading, please inform me via email pondboss@texoma.net . As soon as I can get to the site, I will look it over and make a decision what to do. Pond Boss is dedicated to managing private waters, and to share quality information. Let's keep it that way.

Bob thats fair but I have a question. If I can't call Robinson a Jerk anymore is it OK that he calls himself a Jerk?

Cute

Isn't the end result of a GG pond Retenone ? (i.e. fish kill ?)

Thanks to Bob for his recent hybrid posts, had they come sooner, maybe this board wouldn't have become so divided.

Eastland according to Kens catalog and web site the answer to your question is yes Retenone is the end result. Great salesman; yes, Load up a pond; yes, Honest(IMO); yes

E,
I did post, the very same stuff, in a thread ending Oct 10, called Georgia Giant Bream, page 5. I just didn't pay close attention where it went from there. My fault.

Ok maybe I missed the boat somewhere so Bob please feel free to correct me if I am way off base. But for the sake of argument (and I really hate arguments) aren't most bream ponds destined for rotenone? I mean the decent one's anyway. It just stands to reason, for me at least, that if one is attempting to grow out a "large bream" pond, one would have to deal with the same issues of inbreeding and such down the road anyway. I mean if a hybrid fish is any combination of BG, redear, GSF, pumpkinseed, or piranahau for that matter, would it not make since that subsequent generations (FX) would be inbreed just like in a pure bluegill pond. Not to mention the fact that most hybrids do not have as many offspring as the pure bluegill, thus increasing the life of a hybrid pond over that of a pure bluegill pond (when trying to grow out "the big one").

Maybe I am playing devil's advocate but it appears that some people are in a trophy LMB state of mind without seeing any potential positives of a bream pond, much less a hybrid bream pond. That is fine as a lot of people are LMB anglers only. Not judging anyone at all I am just trying to see it from both points of view, which is why I stated in an above post that GG (and other hybrid bream) are not meant to be stocked in a potential trophy LMB pond.

From a scientific (and genetic) standpoint what am I missing?


PS Eastland please don't look at the board as being divided. Just like in any tight family there will be numerous feuds and make-ups. They make us stronger and in the end they make us closer.

edit: Thanks Cody

Debra,
There's more than one way to skin that cat. I don't necessarily believe a pond must be rotenoned, not even a hybrid bluegill pond.
Hybrid bluegill, Georgia Giants...even redear sunfish ponds can have babies controlled with very few predators. Take hybrid striped bass, for example. Four or five of those in an acre can do an adequate job of controlling recruitment. The only issue is what size hybrid sunfish to restock, when the time comes, based on the size of predator.
Or, with a few hybrid sunfish, they are easy to catch and remove in small waters.
Same with small male largemouth bass as predator. Some people wish to rotenone, others do it differently.
Essentially, I agree with the concept of renovating a sunfish pond periodically, if needed.
One other thing I have seen people do is this. They stock heavily with hybrid sunfish, feed them, harvest a few, and restock every other year, in the hope the largest sunfish will eat everyone's babies.
Bottom line, to maintain genetic integrity, hybrid sunfish or Georgia Giants must be first generation (or whatever Ken's secret formula is for the Georgia Giants.)

Thanks Bob! I am now seeing some further reasoning behind Ken's angle of a 1 to 5 ratio with the predators. Not everyone (in fact not many that are not privy to this forum) will take the time to seine and cull. I guess Ken foresaw that when he suggested higher than normal predators in GG ponds. Eat all the babies, don't worry about the size of the predators, and try to grow out the F-1's. It is taking me some time and a heap of learning (hats off to all of you), but I think I might be headed towards some "light bulbs" (understanding).

It seems to me that if the predator load controls the F2s sufficiently, you should be able to just restock with more hybrid bream periodically.

Users of Hybrid bream (bluegills), don't forget that hybrid bluegills readily enter fish traps. Larger traps and various sizes of throat openings can be used to selectively remove specific size ranges of hybrids.

Your right Theo! I have seen many customers who "fished out" a lot of F-1's, only to return later to stock larger GG F-1's (or for that matter went with a cage raise and release program). I guess it goes back to "what is your goal". With a sufficient predator stock (which I see as a major factor with a majority of our customers who don't seine, trap, or cull), various paths can be taken once the pond has some age on it.
Thanks for the input!


By the way I hope I did not come across offensively when I posted above about the spelling of Georgia. Grandaddy worked with the Geechee tribe off the coast of Georgia for a decade or so in his younger years. He picked up on their dialect and it stuck with him until his last days. I can remember him calling us in for dinner saying "Come on boys and gurls". You made me smile at the memories.