Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Hi everyone! New here, some pond questions..

Hi everyone, this is my first post. So glad to have found this forum, I think I've read almost every thread. lol Even so, I have some questions about my [first] pond I'm planning.

I'm planning a very small pond in my back yard. I was thinking about starting it out small to see how it goes (maybe 14x24), and then expanding it eventually (to around 22x44). I have machines, so digging is no problem. The issue with expanding it is, if there's a liner or not. If I'm not using a liner, then expanding is easy. If there is a liner, not so much.

I live in the black dirt region of Orange County NY. It's very acidic, rich soil. So I guess it retains water well, from what I've heard. There's clay too when you get down a couple feet. So do you think I'd need some kind of liner?

Also, this may be a stupid question, but would compacting the soil (with a plate compactor) in the hole help to seal it better? Or would that be a waste of time?

Another question I had was with aeration. Would it cost a lot to run a pump for a pond this size? What would be the average monthly increase to my bill for a small pump? Just don't want to hear the wife complaining about the electric bill. lmao

Also, would you run the pump 24/7, or could it be on a timer for only certain times of the day?

Lastly, I was thinking about stocking it with BG if/when I made it to the full size. Does that sound like a good idea? Is there any other fish that would be a good choice? I was always thinking of Crappie, but I guess they're not good for small ponds?

Anyway, thanks again for having me, and looking forward to any help and tips you can give. I'm sure I'll have a lot more questions too!

Thanks all!

s96,

This sounds like a backyard project. My impression is that this pond will be a feature you will be spending a lot of time just hanging by. How will the pond receive water? Things I would consider if water may be sourced to tap or if it may not be reliable ... a liner is something that would help to conserve water. Lime in very modest quantities should be able to get your pH up.

So the first thing with regard to fish, this pond will be too small to have reproducing BG or Crappie. Initially, it will be about 0.7% of an acre. Also, you don't state whether or not you want clear water. If you are to have high clarity water, there will not be much room for fish. If it were me, I would limit the fish to no more than 3 (1 of 3 separate species). Replace fish as they die. So you could have 1 BG, 1 YP, and 1 Crappie. For forage, explore what you can find locally for minnows that are able to reproduce in ponds. Seems like satinfins or spotfins would be available in your area. You may need to set up some spawning habitat for them. Also, FHM or BNM may be good choices for you. If you can get them legally, consider adding also PK shrimp. Allow your forage to establish first. If you want color, 1 koi or 1 goldfish could replace one of those 3 (goldfish and koi can hybridize so don't put both but only 1 of 1 species).

Stock the fish kind of small. This will ensure that their combined weight will not be in excess of the ponds ability to support them. They will grow and eventually balance with the pond's foods and your supplementation of nutrients. Be careful of how much nutrients you add to a small pond like this. 1 bag of feed could last several years. I personally would prefer to feed from the bottom up. Feed the minnows a crumbled feed and allow your small contingent of adult predators reach a balance with them. The amount of feed should balance the trophic level you are trying to achieve in this pond. If you want to see bottom, it will necessarily be a small amount of feed.

Make sure the pond is deep enough to handle your winters up there.

If you have equipment available, I would recommend performing your own soil test. Do your "digging call" to check for underground hazards, and then the next time you have a mini-excavator or backhoe in the area, go dig a little test pit.

You can probably send your sub-soil samples to a state agency for an analysis of the clay content (frequently called a grain-size analysis). If not, then you can pay a little more and find a private lab.

However, if you are an equipment operator, you already know the difference when you are digging in clay. As soon as you start digging some clay, scrape a partial bucket off of the bottom to sample that elevation. If the soil is slightly damp, you should be able to make a mudball that sticks together. If you can do that, then try to roll the ball between your palms to create a pencil or a worm. If you can do that (or even close to that), then you should be able to seal your pond without a liner.

Unsealed ponds almost always leak due to a horizontal LAYER in the natural deposits that has the ability to transmit water. Once you have the pond basin constructed, you need to destroy all of the natural layers and then re-compact the material.

This means disking the bottom and sides of the pond as deeply as possible. The best way to compact after that, is to utilize a vibratory soil compactor with a padfoot roller. (Look up a Cat CP323, if you are not familiar with that type of equipment.) The padfoot roller does NOT re-compact in layers, but rather knits the material together as it compacts.

However, that equipment is a bit pricey for a small project. A plate compactor certainly also works for compaction, but is not nearly as good as knitting the material together. Are you familiar with the padfoot rollers that are available to be used on excavators? I think that would provide more efficient sealing during your compaction process.

As to aeration, it is much more efficient to pump air through a diffuser to aerate a pond than it is to perform the same turn over compared to pumping water. Increased efficiency means a much lower electricity bill. For much of the year, you may only need to pump for a few hours a day. However, the air pump will make a fair bit of noise while running. IMO, you need to minimize that to keep your wife happy while enjoying the backyard or sleeping with a window open. Therefore, place the pump in a convenient place, but away from humans if possible. Also build an attractive pump housing.

As to water supply, you will lose some water due to evaporation and even soil leakage in a well-sealed pond. For large ponds, most people need a natural source of water to keep it affordable. (Either the run off of surface water, or re-fill from below due to groundwater. However, groundwater ponds bring their own complications.) Another option is a water well, but that gets expensive to both lift water and then pump it to the pond.

Do you have well water, or inexpensive "government" water? If so, that may be affordable to keep your small pond full. If not, then you need to direct some "watershed" area of your yard into the pond. If that is not possible, then you can get a little bit creative and pipe your gutter downspouts to the pond, etc.

Good luck on your new pond project. I hope you do find some good clay so you can build a nice starter pond, and then expand in the future if you desire!

I have both that sized pond in the back, and a half acre natural pond in the front.

First off, line the pond! It is relatively easy to append another liner to expand later, welding the two together if performed within 10ish years. Assuming it is thicker rubber. You won’t need to worry about seepage, leaks you cannot find, and you can contour the bottom with steps and planting areas that won’t slough off. However, you need to plan for that possibility and leave a nice straight edge of the liner for that in the future. Just tuck it under the side you may grow. Pricey at first, but a lot cheaper than a leaky eyesore of a pond you will likely need to deal with later.

I am recommending lining all smaller ponds, it is much easier to deal with them if you don’t get runoff in them. Fertilizer, lawn clippings, rich soils nearby, and just over-nutrition can quickly turn them into a sloppy mess you will need to regularly clean. It is much easier to manually clean a lined pond than a natural clay bottom. A rubber liner you can climb in and pump and wash it right down to the bare surface without digging.

Build the rim of the pond a touch above elevation so runoff cannot easily get at it. Top off with a garden hose when evaporation gets an upper hand. If you have chlorinated water, make a 5 gallon bucket filter handy with activated charcoal in it to pass water through before entering the pond. In our area, precipitation is generally higher than evaporation rates except July-September so I rarely need to top it off.

My 12x14 pond in the back was overrun by lilies last year, and now by fish this year. I am now tasked with siphoning out the thing this spring if it ever warms up enough to thin out the damned fish I cannot catch. Too many hungry koi/goldfish hybrids eating my lilies. I have the advantage of elevation to make a siphon cleaner, I hope it works. (More details to come!)

Good luck, but most of all, have fun!

Oh, for aeration, you can get a larger, quiet diaphragm pump and run that all year. They cannot push air too deep, but 4’ isn’t a problem. Cheap to run, and won’t sound like a factory floor. My garden pond is 4’ deep (probably only 3 due to lilies) and my climate is colder than yours. No problems, though I do use a de-icer in the coldest months to let oxygen exchange for the fish and keep the aerator running.

Consider FishinRod pond building ideas first and then if the pond has leakage problems then redo it with a liner. Pay close attention to FishinRods very good construction and clay compaction methods. Compaction, Compaction, and more COMPACTION is keenly important in builting a well sealed pond. A leaky pond is a VERY bad thing to have and to try and deal with it's problems. It is much easier to do it right in the first building process trying to fix unknown soil leakage. You dig a hole however you build a pond. Dirt / clay compaction and knitting the soil layers together forming the basin are very very important. You might want to contact the member here called TJ on PBoss Forum to learn about preventing and fixing pond leaks using his well proven poly-synthetic pond sealing product. It would be very good leak insurance to use the material in the pond building process.

Read through this pond sealing thread.
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=413972&gonew=1#UNREAD

There are some very good unique ideas for fish for this pond after it is built and filled. Come back here to this thread when the pond is filled.

Wow, thank you everyone so much for all the advice! I really appreciate it as I need all the help I can get! lol A few more questions I thought of..

1) I'm surprised at the estimate of only being able to have 3 fish in the pond. I thought it would be a little more than that. I keep seeing online that it's normally about 1" of fish per 5 gallons of water. Is that wrong? Would love to hear more about the variety of fish I could have too. I really thought I'd only be limited to BG, which is fine if true.

2) Interesting note about the poly-synthetic sealer, I'll definitely look into it. I've been seeing a lot about Bentonite also. Does this actually work? What's everyone's thoughts? Would this be a good option if I develop a leak?

3) Will an aerator alone stop the pond from becoming a haven for mosquitos? I'd hate to make the mosquito situation around here even worse, because it's pretty bad already! lol Do those dunks work good?

4) I heard you can use soaker hoses as an aerator (hooked up to a pump of course), is that accurate? Asking because I actually have a lot of them, some still brand new.

I think that's all the questions for now. Thanks again for ALL the help. I read every single reply and really learned a lot!

My opinion is that if you have both a replacement water source, and a way to pull, pump, siphon some water out of the pond on occasion to remove fish waste, uneaten food, and other detritus you can have many more than 3 fish. I'd be considering some of nearly any fishes that live in waters around you plus the exotics like goldfish, koi, etc. How about a dozen or twice that many of a minnow species or two, some goldfish for color, any of the sunfishes, a few yellow perch, even some bullhead catfish.
Many of these can get quite tame and will come right up to you out of curiosity and hunger.
Now if the population gets too crowded, you'd have to remove some.
Just as with an aquarium, you'll be making water changes at times and removing waste.
On the other hand if your goal is to have an ecosystem that requires the absolute minimum of interference, that's a whole different matter.
Good luck and keep us informed. Very few posters describe small projects like yours; I think many of us would like to follow your progress.

You should put your gleaned information in prospective. There is a lot to learn and do dealing with managing a well maintained pond; even a small pond. .
1. 1" of fish per 5 gal of water stocking standard is for having adequate and usually extra mechanical water filtration and maintaining excellent water quality aka Happy Water as per Bob Lusk. Feeding the fish also complicates the water quality issue and pond carrying capacity. Keep in mind that those fish grow and as they grow in body mass and maybe reproduce, they put exponential stress on the water quality. Even many big fish pond owners due not realize and manage correctly for this situation.

2. Bentonite can work when applied "correctly" and the pond water level stays very FULL. When water level drops that exposed soil dries out and cracks. Cracks are not sealed as basin material. If you are going to use the soil sealing additive, IMO use the synthetic polymer such as the one proven and tested as Soil Floc noted above. A leaky pond is not a long term issue that you want to deal with. Just ask all those many members here with leaky ponds. Check out all the threads here on the forum about leaky ponds to learn how common the problem is when IT is not done correctly in the first place or beginning. Cutting corners usually creates regrets.

3. Mosquitos - Any fish esp smaller fish in the pond will eat and keep mosquitos gone. Predatory insects will also eat and control mosquitos. Basically aeration has not much to due and is bascially an INDIRECT affect with reducing mosquitos. Be aware of the advertized hype. Aeration has different beneficial purposes tha mosquito or bug control. Understand the real purposes of aeration and not the advertising 'hype" before installing one so you do not have false expectations.

4. Soaker hoses can work great for fine bubble aeration. BIG problem with them is cleaning them when the very tiny pores clog, plug and become more inefficient causing undue back pressure on the compressor reducing its life span. Been there done that. If you use soaker hose be sure to have replacement hose pieces available as if done correctly it should be replaced every 1-2 yrs based on pond conditons and overall annual water quality.

5. Get your pond built, holding water and staying full then come back here for fishery advice as there are lots of fish options depending on your goals for even a small 22'x24' pond. Also be prepared to dewater the pond every 1-3 yrs based on how it is managed. Invest in a good 1" to 2" clear water or trash pump as used or new model as you will need it. Resell the pump when you decide to fill the pond back in with dirt.

Bentonite does work but you have to till it in and assure that you don’t miss any place. That’s hard but it is a big help.

I’ll never forget being around the 2 owners of this site. Bob Lusk is a fish guy and MIke Otto owns a dozer company and has built an awful lot of ponds.

Mike told Bob to quit telling people how to stop leaks. He said “ Dirt is porous and will never be totally leak proof. It sucks up water”. Bentonite adds a clay product to the dirt. As long as you don’t miss any, it will help.

Might be a good catfish pond. Yes you will have to feed them, water quaulity issues may arise. If i were you i would add 25 4-6" fingerlings and catch them when they reach 1-11/2 lbs. Perfect for eating and unless you put structure in your pond they probably wont spawn. Which is a good thing. Keep track of how many you take out and replenish.


I would also slope the bottom to a drain ( NDS has drain covers) run the pipe to gravel bed area, assuming your yard isnt flat. Add a 3" ball walve to flush the pond, the waste should settle near the drain area of the pond.

If I had the budget, I would improve my garden pond to have a pumped natural bog filter. Unfortunately those can take up near 2x the area of the pond itself!
I follow a group that is enthusiastic about natural swim ponds, and many of them are amazing, but well outside of what I am willing to spend.
Either way, I would still emphasize to consider a rubber liner for a pond that size. You will be sadder for the initial investment cost, but happier long term.

But hey, try and excavate a test hole and see what you have to work with. Maybe some nice clay, or maybe sand and gravel down to bedrock.

Good luck!