Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Culling Measurements

Quick recap from other threads. Bought place 2 years ago, pond (just over acre) was built the previous summer. Had channel, BG and LMB. My goal is 90% to have big BG, 1lb+. the other 10% goal is a few lunker LMB to luck into now and then. I've been told to cull all bass over like 14" to cut down competition. Then someone did tell me i could keep a few big LMB as long as i kept enough bait in the pond that they didn’t bother with the big BG. Based on that I have been culling med bass and marking up to 7 LMB, I’ve only marked 3 so far that were good and healthy. That way once I’ve marked 7, I’m going to cull everything else over 14" on the LMB. With all that in mind I want to create a few measuring sticks for guests who come to the pond. Helpful for me too. I'll have the ruler with highlighted or marked up areas to tell what to throw back and what to throw in the creek that runs along pond, or eat. Here are my thoughts, any suggestions or corrections? Note, also adding 15lb of fathead minnows spring and fall

Female BG all culled except 8.5"+
Male BG keep all except 7-8 that appear older males.
LMB cull anything over 14" except for marked once i have 7 marked, currently at 3 marked. Marking healthy ones over 3lbs currently.

I'll post a few pics of what I’ve caught this month. They all seem plump, including my first MO Trophy BG out of the pond at 10" and 17.6oz! I'm stoked to have that already on a pond less than 3 years old.

Thoughts??

That bass is impressive! Nice post.

Nice BG and LMB!

I thought it was still a few months until the start of football season. Apparently I was wrong, because that bass is definitely a nice football.

Congrats on the very nice fish, Those are very impressive.

Is that a hole punched in the tail with something like a paper hole punch?

Just curious if anyone knows if that will eventually close up. I have been tagging my fish under the dorsal fin with a tagging gun, but have caught a few that were tagged and it looked like a sore formed where the tag enters the fish. I do clean the needle with alcohol after each fish I tag and again before I tag another.

Just curious if this may be a better way.

I almost never harvest first generation stocker fish placed in a new pond. Only when one looks bad (obvious problems) or there is a major out of balance situation. Harvest management is only on the second and subsequent generations of fish.

Yes, but, yes, you are right. I caught one marked last fall and there was a thin layer where it had healed. So, i'm doing this until i figure something else out. I would LOVE to tag so that i could keep a list of size, date last caught etc. But, i haven't found small enough tags that i believe would not hinder the fish. So, I too am looking for ideas on that issue.

Thanks to all for the words. I am happy so far with growth rates.

Great looking fish!!

I've been using Floy tags and really like being able to track the fish. I started tracking from the beginning and am on year 2 so I have lots of good data.

I can send you a Multi Year, Excel spreadsheet to track the Relative weights that a fellow Pond Boss member designed if you are interested. It also has a field for the ID/Tag number. Just send me a private message with your email.

I recently posted on the forum regarding an issue I had with an infection on a fish due to the Floy tag and have been looking at the PIT tags. They are more expensive but much smaller and safer for the fish.

Keep up the good work!

Have to bump because i am still looking for suggestions on my measurements with my listed goals for the pond. Thoughts?

Very good fish there TobyH. Great growth so far.

I've been reluctant to post ... perhaps others have as well ... but your goals will require careful attention to the details. The populations must be out of balance to achieve what you want. By this, I mean that you will have to artificially support by forage supplementation the large LMB that you plan to grow alongside your trophy bluegill. Also your trophy BG will have to be supported by feed because they will encounter competition with the supplemented forage.

That said, I think this is doable and you are on the right track limiting trophy track LMB to only 7. Here are where your challenges lie.

1. You need two distinct LMB populations. One numerous in number, slow growing, and small in stature. Another small in number, fast growing, large in stature. There needs to be enough separation between the sizes of the group of small LMB and the group of large LMB to allow you to supplement forage that only the big LMB will eat. I would recommend GSH for the supplemented forage.

2. Because the group of small LMB are growing slow AND because you need separation between the largest of the small sized group and the smallest of the large sized group ... it may not be practical to recruit LMB for the large sized group. For reliable recruitment, you may need to supplement 1.5 lb female LMB at the rate of 2 per year.

3. Because you will have abundant prey for large LMB and strong populations of large BG and GSH, overwinter recruitment of LMB YOY will be greatly diminished. Also, within 2 or 3 years, your LMB will be snacking on 6" LMB recruits which will be optimal sized prey for them. What I am saying, it may be a challenge to maintain the population of small LMB at numbers you need to control BG for a trophy BG pond.

So to maintain two distinct populations of LMB will be challenging. The path you are on, will likely favor LMB growth over BG growth. But ... if you can keep a population of say ... 80 to 100 LMB between the sizes of 8" and 11" ... AND ... if you will supplement 4" GSH at around 100 lbs each year ... then you might pull this off and do it indefinitely.

I am going to tell you up front. Nature will not cooperate ... you will have to manage recruitment ... and this may involve purchasing 8" recruits for your small sized population and 13-14" recruits for the large sized population. You must keep in mind, that the small population is not trying to remain small to serve your purpose of enacting crowd control on BG. They will grow and may grow faster than you would like ... meaning you will be forced to remove some. Nature is notorious for irregular recruitment and so Nature will not necessarily provide you replacements as you need them annually. Natural mortality will also diminish the crowd control of the population of small sized LMB. You will need to ensure that no more than 2 of them grow into 12" of length each year. If you can have stable recruitment to balance the managed and natural mortality, then I think your plan could work with supplemental feed and supplemental forage.

I noticed that you clipped the lower lobe of the caudal fin. So let that position be 2025. For 2026 let the upper lobe of the caudal fin be clipped, 2027 ... the lobe of the posterior dorsal, and let the lobe of the anal fin be for 2028. Clipping in this manner will tell you the year the trophy track fish was selected. Use the same clipping tool to clip the top 1/3 of a dorsal spine. Start with 3rd spine on the first fish you wish to uniquely identify. Then move on to the fourth for the next fish .... and so on. You have a 1 one acre pond and 7 fish on trophy track. An LMB has enough spines to uniquely identify all of them for 2025 and you won't need to tag them if you do this.

Thank you so much. Yes, I know this will be tough. I may end up going 100% BG goals and culling any LMB over 14". But, with a few of them looking so healthy and hitting almost 4lbs on a 2lb mouth, i'm hesitant. I am feeding 4 times a day during warm months. Using Purina since optimal is gone. That and 15lbs of fatheads but i get what your saying on GHS. I may add that to the mix. As for tagging. I think i cam up with a solution. I have to test and will report back.

You're welcome.

Just curious. Did you stock both CNBG and Northern BG? I know you stocked the CNBG in September of 2023 ... but the growth significantly exceeds the climate model for that stocking date and 3" fingerlings. Also, just curious because that BG looks like a northern BG to me ... unless I am missing something. If you stocked both, when did you stock the northerns and at what length?

In your climate, the climate model suggests that BG can grow around 0.455 +- 0.09 lbs per year. For a May stocking in 2023, the BG above exceeds the model (by weight) by 20% (at the upper end of variation) but is right on the money for length (10 in). It's pretty amazing, but a BG in your climate can grow to 4 lbs in 9 years ... but to do this ... it needs to get all it cares to eat every day. To get all it would eat every day, the numbers of BG must be very limited. So many choices ... does one opt for more awesome 10 inchers? Or try to reach the pinnacle? The only member I am aware of to grow BG (in this case BG-RES Fx) at near the climate maximums is Theo. He is further north than you but has managed to approach the limit of what is possible in his climate. Consider browsing through the image gallery for pics of his fish, in one of the older ones, he explains his approach for managing the BG-RES population.

I bought "CNBG" in fall or 23 but they weren’t really CN... I later asked the fishery for a picture of what they call CN and it was just a colorful BG. There was BG in the pond when bought in Jan of 23. They were at most 7" I don’t remember getting anything over that. So, some of the larger ones i have assumed are pre my stocking.

I do not want hybrids or crappie etc. The only other fish i would add is CNBG. But, i can't find a place to get them here in SW MO. My buddy works at the main BassPro and i got ahold of the guy who orders fish for their tanks. Because, as of about a year ago they started putting CNBG in with the big bass and gar. Tanks of CNBG too.... The fishery there said he would not provide because of two reasons. One, something about not separating from other fish, second, because he didn’t believe my pond could sustain them. I still want to give it a try though, just no luck finding them.

Ahh! I was thinking that you did the initial stocking. Was the pond stocked in 22?

Hey, I'm sorry to hear that the supplier brought northern BG instead of what you ordered. Hope someday you will get an opportunity to have a few. Snipe recommended Harbin's, I think I would follow up on that. Climate-wise their location is not that different from Springfield. May actually be balmier there in Southern MO.

well, your kinda right. It was built in late 21. They starting stocking in 22 and i bought in 23 and starting managing and supplementing food in fall of 23. I'll look in to Harbins