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Howdy!

I have a couple ponds. One is about 15x20x8 feet and another Is about 20x40x8 feet. I'm in the Rocky Mountains in Idaho, but the ponds are fed from a hot spring. I don't want to do any intensive farming, the idea is just have them live naturally off algae and diatoms.

I seeded the ponds with 25 blue gill tilapia not last summer but the summer before. They multiplied like crazy despite not feeding them for the most part. The first winter I supplemented their diet during with duck weed grown in a greenhouse, flour grain and some soy beans. The first winter, they would go crazy when I fed them.

This winter, I haven't given them as much attention. I should have started supplementing their diet sooner than I did. But I've been giving them some soy beans every day or every other day. But they sure don't go crazy like they used to when I fed them. It takes them much longer to start feeding and is much less frenzied feeding. The water is currently about 68F - 70F (hit 5F outside last night).

I have a couple questions. When food becomes more scarce, do they naturally become more dormant and should snap back when more food is available?

It seems the larger they are, the less they like to be seen or bother with the top feeding. But I've never once seen a dead one, so I assume the biggest of them are still alive. Is it typical the bigger they are, the less you see them? My ponds are deep enough they don't have to be seen if they don't want to. I know there are some adults because they kept having offspring despite not seeing the adults for the most part. When I cleaned out my biofilter, I found Tilapia that must have been sucked in when they were tiny and grew to a considerable size despite having almost no room to move in. Seems they can live and grow just off the water that passes by them.

My last question is, how is the population controlled. They've reproduced so many times, that at some point, their resources will become exhausted. What happens? Do starving big Tilapia feed on smaller ones? Seems unlikely since the smaller they are, the faster they seem to swim, so maybe the other way around? I've never seen a natural predator feed on them, and I've never seen a floater. My guess is there could be thousands of them in there now. Or do they reproduce and reproduce, but the less food, the slower they grow and more sluggish they become?

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Welcome to the forum.

Man should be their predator. I'm confused. You stocked the pond with 25 bluegill and some tilapia? I've never heard of a "bluegill tilapia".

They will eat smaller fish, but that's not their preferred food.

What are your goals for the ponds?


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Thank you!

My apologies, I should have said Blue Tilapia.

I just want them living naturally out there. I may want to catch one now and then, but I mainly just like the idea of a food supply in case it's ever needed.

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Originally Posted by 3DTOPO
Thank you!

My apologies, I should have said Blue Tilapia.

I just want them living naturally out there. I may want to catch one now and then, but I mainly just like the idea of a food supply in case it's ever needed.

I understand. You really need to be harvesting them and eating them now. If you don't, after a number of years the fish will not be as large, but the number of fish will increase. The ponds can only hold so many pounds of fish, it's up to you to determine whether you want them to be 3"-4" fish or 10"-12" fish.

The large fish won't shrink in size, but as they age out and die the fish that replace them won't be as big. Plus you will have reached carrying capacity, and run the risk of having a fish kill if water quality decreases. It's really in your best interest to catch and eat now as a way to control fish numbers and to control fish size.


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Good point, thank you.

It's just I kind of have grown to be attached to them, but if it is for the good of their existence, perhaps I should. I occasionally see a big one, and have seen them at least a foot long.

I honestly don't know how to catch the big ones though. Like I said, it seems the bigger they are, the less they like to be seen at all. I don't really want to hook the small ones. Any suggestions?

Anyhow, I guess my main question is, I know Tilapia will become more dormant the lower the water temperature gets, but I was wondering if the same is true for when food becomes scarce in the winter as there is a lot less light and thus algae/diatoms produced.

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When food becomes more scarce, do they (TP) naturally become more dormant and should snap back when more food is available?
TP really do not go dormant in the sense of hibernation. Fish don't hibernate as other animals, but they use other instinctual tactics to survive the period of cold temperatures and lack of food. Rather than hibernating, fish enter form of body function slow down that could be called 'dormancy' during the wintertime. This reduces their metabolism and slows down their activity. This means fish are using fewer calories and preserving their energy until food stores and higher temperatures become available again.


“Snap back” it depends. A lot of snap back depends of the amount of competition among themselves, food sources, food reserves and water quality. As food becomes scarce and the fish uses internal storage reserves such as fat first then protein thus the fish loses weight until death occurs; death from starvation. For TP as the water temperature drops below good body demands the stress on TP greatly increases. As the length of time low temperatures increases the TP become vulnerable (more stress) to virus and bacterial infections that often results in death. If the population is overly crowded each fish has little if any fat reserves due to too many fish and not enough food these cause greater body stressors. Adding external food to an over crowded situation in reality makes the overall situation WORSE and more stressful to the fish by creating more fish biomass above a good healthy system or condition.

Generally if the temperature does not get low enough to kill the TP, their metabolism slows down but the fish does NOT become dormant. Ability to undergo dormancy requires a special animal adaptation for survival. To my knowledge fish generally do not have this adaptation. The TP still need to obtain enough food & have adequate temperature to stay alive with normal body functions. TP can or are able starve to death or develop poor health and die. I have seen TP eat small TP fry and eat dead TP flesh as the dead one starts to decompose.

With only TP in the ponds as with most any animal that reproduces, the animal keeps reproducing until the population reaches a peak number often called the carrying capacity of population size that the conditions can sustain indefinitely. This peak number and biomass depends on the type of habitat, the amount of food, and other necessities. For fish, water quality is very important for their survival. As the population reaches carrying capacity, the reproduction ability can decrease and new ones & weakest ones have some form of mortality. Above carrying capacity the numbers become more susceptible to disease that can cause various amounts of deaths. Survival of the fittest. High numbers of death in the pond system lowers water quality where it can reach a point to kill all members. Water quality equates closely to air quality.

If one wants the best healthiest fish, the population numbers should be controlled and reduced to optimize the number of higher quality fish. Control and recruitment of the population can be done by using predation or some form of regular harvest i.e. removal, so remaining individuals have enough food to stay healthy and grow to quality sizes. Having healthy fish is IMO the main goal. Feeding the fish population without population control can increase the carrying capacity beyond the ability of a self-sustaining healthy ecosystem where various problems such as deaths and sickness occur; usually in the form of unexpected numerous deaths – visible or unseen in the murky waters below the surface.

A good way to control or reduce high numbers of fish in a small pond is use a fish seine. Seines are available in various lengths and heights. Minnow type seines are usually 3-4 feet tall. Fish traps work okay but they are not as good as a seine.

If you want larger TP in the pond with overall less management effort and less emotional stress having to control their numbers, I suggest you renovate each pond and restock with only male TP so the population number density is almost self-controlling. Reproduction and recruitment are what are causing your population problems

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/23/25 06:46 PM.

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Thanks for the detailed information!

I didn't think TP hibernated, just reduce their activity based on food supply and water temperature and it sounds like that is the case.

I only feed them in the winter, and just a bit because their natural food source crashes, and I just feel bad that they might be starving.

Stocking just males is an interesting idea, but I wanted them to naturally propagate and I also would not feel right about killing potentially thousands of fish now. And the only way to make sure is I would have to completely drain them which would damage the pond ecosystem. So not really an option now.

I read that typically when the water temperature is below around 70F they stop reproducing. So perhaps I should control the population that way. I guess another population control might be something like bass that eats them? It seems that could keep their numbers in check. Or something else that is a natural predator?

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Largemouth Bass will eat them if they can fit them in their mouth. Without harvesting some of the bass yearly , you will run into the same stunting problem. As for catching the tilapia, I'd switch to feeding them a commercially produced Tilapia food when you feel like it, then if you want to catch any buy yourself some Stubby Steves natural color artificial fish pellets. Stubby Steve's Original


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Thanks for your suggestion.

But if I feed them, then the population would crash if I ever stopped feeding them. And even if I feed them, and they keep reproducing, I'll run into the same problem unless I keep increasing the food - like exponentially. As I do, it puts more pressure on maintaining water quality which gets expensive for the equipment and I don't really have the money now.

So the whole idea is they are fed naturally and cannot grow more than the pond can naturally support (with a bog filter, a settling tank for solids and a biofilter), and they've done remarkably well considering. The exception is I do want to help them out in the slowest of months.

I also was not able to find any TP food that I could afford that doesn't contain fish meal. TP are largely vegetarian, and I really dislike the idea of using fish meal. It was surprising to me that I couldn't find a plant based one with perhaps a small percentage of insects.

I guess I just need to harvest some. Any tips on how to catch just the big ones? I guess I could build a trap with holes large enough for small ones to escape.

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By the way, when I had excess algae before the population got established, I collected it, dried it and shredded it. Made perfect TP food.

It was rather time consuming though. I could create another pond that just grows algae, but I will still run into the same problem, it would just allow a larger population.

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You are experiencing the management responsibility of growing animals. If your philosophy of life is against stocking, cultivating, and appropriately harvesting and disposing of excess animals that prolifically reproduce, then IMO you better be growing a garden rather than growing TP in a pond that in reality needs some decent form of management. Just because you do not see the stressors that overcrowded TP are experiencing does not mean the stressors do not exist for those TP.

My question is why is it okay to allow animals to become overabundant and starve (not growing optimally & comfortably), and as manager force them to go through the undue stressors due to allowing too many to be present versus removing and humanely disposing of excess numbers of them so remainder are happy and healthy?

If one wants to get technical about this whole concept, why do we use chemicals and medicines to control weeds, pests, viruses and bacteria?. They are all living things that contain chromosomal DNA. If someone has a strict non-killing philosophy and they have a vegetable garden why is it okay to hoe out weeds and let them lay on the ground to die, dry out, and decompose? Science has shown that plants have a measurable form of "feelings" or 'sensations'. Why remove those weeds from the garden and then not transplant them into another place where they can finishing living out their life to flower and reproduce seeds?

When adding animals to a contained culture system be it a land or water, ideally there is a responsibility to properly manage them. Overcrowding, starving and lack of adequate food is stressful. Amen.

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Originally Posted by 3DTOPO
Thanks for your suggestion.

But if I feed them, then the population would crash if I ever stopped feeding them. And even if I feed them, and they keep reproducing, I'll run into the same problem unless I keep increasing the food - like exponentially. As I do, it puts more pressure on maintaining water quality which gets expensive for the equipment and I don't really have the money now.

So the whole idea is they are fed naturally and cannot grow more than the pond can naturally support (with a bog filter, a settling tank for solids and a biofilter), and they've done remarkably well considering. The exception is I do want to help them out in the slowest of months.

I also was not able to find any TP food that I could afford that doesn't contain fish meal. TP are largely vegetarian, and I really dislike the idea of using fish meal. It was surprising to me that I couldn't find a plant based one with perhaps a small percentage of insects.

I guess I just need to harvest some. Any tips on how to catch just the big ones? I guess I could build a trap with holes large enough for small ones to escape.


Good luck with your search for the fish food that you describe. Personally? I'd rather go with fish food that is formulated for Tilapia by a company that has over 100 years of combined knowledge of formulating fish food for specific species of fish than what I think I'd rather feed them. There is so much to know about different aspects of ponds, that I defer to people that have a LOT more knowledge in specific things than I do. I just have a broad knowledge of what will and what won't work in a pond. I'd look at these guys for the feed if you decide to go that route. Optimal TIlapia food

While fish will eat a wide variety of things, the amount of underutilized food that passes through their digestive system contributes to degrading water quality if feeding the fish something that they can't metabolize or only partially metabolize. I saw that when switching from the food that was using to Optimal Fish Food. The more that they can metabolize the fish food, the less waste will go into the water, and that waste is what degrades water quality. Bread, dog food, other things that people feed fish, aren't the best things. While Tilapia are algae eaters and partly plant eaters, I have yet to see one hop out of the pond and go to the soybean field to eat soybeans. Sure, they will eat them, but can you tell me how much is utilized and how much is passed through the fish? That is known as FCR (feed conversion rate).

You don't have to feed them anything at all, and you don't have to harvest any either. But to reach your goals for the pond, you will at the very minimum, have to harvest fish. The easiest way would be to get the fish feed trained (I don't mean feed them enough so that they depend on the food to live) with the smallest amount of food needed to get a conditioned response to the food, then when you need to catch a few, slip in a Stubby Steve's pellet on a #10 Owner Mosquito hook with 2# or 4# test line and no bobber, sinker or swivel. Leave enough of the hook point out of the pellet, and watch the pellet if it floats or watch where the line enters the water if the pellet sinks. If the line moves, set the hook - pellets don't swim. wink


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All good informational points. If each or any pond is truly balanced with pond productivity and number of fish,,,, the fish have enough naturally produced food to adequately sustain the fish year round. Nature does and has done this with thousands probably millions of ponds and lakes before and after humans arrived.. If one is having to feed the fish to maintain healthy fish based on the natural fish production as a self staining pond as the goal there are TOO many fish. Feeding fish pellets expands the pond's natural productivity beyond pond's natural carrying capacity limits which is what artificial foods are intended to accomplish.


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Thanks for the information.

Look, I am concerned about their well-being. That is why I am trying to better understand the situation and learn what would be best given my situation. I understand they can be stressed and I wouldn't see it, that is what prompted me to post. They aren't being nearly as active as they were the first winter which has caused me concern.

Any significant amount of feeding will just make things worse unless I address the over population issue. I just don't have money to invest in more water treatment equipment, so it would reduce water quality and still do nothing to prevent over population.

When I built the ponds, I just thought it would be neat to have fish living in them. All natural systems have a way of being in equilibrium. Which it does, but I don't want a pond full of suffering animals. I'm actually surprised no birds or animals have been helping to reduce the population.

As for me not knowing what is best food for them, I whole heartedly disagree. I watched them grow from the size of my finger nail to a foot long in a short amount of time without feeding them anything other than duckweed, algae and a bit of flour grain. I know for a fact that TP naturally feed on algae, plants, diatoms and an occasional insect, Their main food is definitely not fish, and yet, all the TP food I've seen is primarily fish meal. How do you know that fish meal is better for them than the natural diet they primarily feed on in my ponds? Just because someone has sold it for 100 years may only mean that the fish do eat it (or otherwise starve) and it is profitable.

I'd be willing to bet that the reason TP food isn't algae/plant/insect based due to profitability above all else.

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All natural systems have a way of being in equilibrium.

Very true. When the population out grows the food availability Nature gets rid of many or most of them for various reasons as the weakest organisms. Very often when nature eliminates the weakest overabundant organisms there usually is mass deaths. To my extensive experience, very often when TP die most of them sink and are not seen from the surface. I wish most of my TP that die would float so I could remove the nutrient rich biomass.

If you drained one or both of those ponds, I think you will be surprised as to how many actually remain. When I renovate a pond the owner usually asks - "What happened to all my fish?"

I will let esshup address your fish food topic - concerns.

A fish stocking into a brand new pond almost always results in a 'new pond fish growth syndrome'. First crop of fish during the first several years appears to be fantastic. This is due to high development and abundance new pond foods, and lack of competition from any prior existing fish and new fish grow fast. Then fish grow great - better than later years when the fishery is at Carrying Capacity as foods become limiting. My main point is feeding the overabundant fish usually more often makes the population structure worse not better because it does not accompany feeding with good wise population management. Feeding over abundant fish often allows them to keep reproducing and overpopulating. Feeding without proper removal or harvest is bad population management.


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I agree with what you're saying. I need a way to reduce the population, that much has become clear. I think I will have to build a fish funnel trap out of large netting and put some bait in there. That way only the largest will be trapped.

But during the winter months, I don't think it is bad to supplement the natural supply of food since the ponds get so little energy compared to 3/4 of the rest of the year. Because a food crash would definitely be a stressor. It's really just allowing the current population to make it through the winter. What I do feed them is still small compared to what the ponds naturally produce in the summer. It's just to give them a bite or two.

I don't think your hunch is right. If there were very few of them, then food would be plentiful.

And I just fed them some algae grown in a pond without any fish. I saw a range of sizes from small to quite large. They were quite responsive and able to swim fast. They appeared to be doing well. Earlier in the day I saw a school of fry swimming about. That means they are still healthy enough to be actively reproducing. I know, I need to reduce the population.

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Originally Posted by 3DTOPO
As for me not knowing what is best food for them, I whole heartedly disagree. I watched them grow from the size of my finger nail to a foot long in a short amount of time without feeding them anything other than duckweed, algae and a bit of flour grain. I know for a fact that TP naturally feed on algae, plants, diatoms and an occasional insect, Their main food is definitely not fish, and yet, all the TP food I've seen is primarily fish meal. How do you know that fish meal is better for them than the natural diet they primarily feed on in my ponds? Just because someone has sold it for 100 years may only mean that the fish do eat it (or otherwise starve) and it is profitable.

I'd be willing to bet that the reason TP food isn't algae/plant/insect based due to profitability above all else.

I apologize in assuming that you didn't know what food was best for them. I wasn't aware that you used modern medical research techniques that link key nutritional parameters with biological and physiological responses in the Tilapia to determine what food was the best for your Tilapia. .What is your FCR with the duckweed, algae and a bit of flour grain that you are feeding them? Again, I apologize.

What is your water temperature summer and winter? I know you said the water temp now is 68°F-70°F but I was wondering what you have seen low temp to high temp.

As for the food that is algae/plant/insect based, have you seen this? https://optimalfishfood.com/open-trial-3-bug-your-fish-is-completed/ and https://optimalfishfood.com/open-trial-2024-bug-your-fish/


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Originally Posted by esshup
I apologize in assuming that you didn't know what food was best for them. I wasn't aware that you used modern medical research techniques that link key nutritional parameters with biological and physiological responses in the Tilapia to determine what food was the best for your Tilapia. .What is your FCR with the duckweed, algae and a bit of flour grain that you are feeding them? Again, I apologize.

I never said I did, and I think you know full well I didn't. But it is widely established fact that TP naturally feed primarily on algae, plants and a small percentage of insects. That is what my TP fed on when I saw them go to tiny to big in a very short order of time. They were thriving, and you can't tell me otherwise. Only reason they've slowed down is because its winter and overpopulated for what the ponds are producing now.

Show me results using modern research techniques that link key nutritional parameters with biological and physiological responses in the Tilapia that determined feeding them primarily fish meal is more beneficial than feeding them their natural diet that they've evolved on for millions of years.


Originally Posted by esshup
What is your water temperature summer and winter? I know you said the water temp now is 68°F-70°F but I was wondering what you have seen low temp to high temp.

In the summer they get up to 90F, I usually try to keep them around 80F.

Originally Posted by esshup

I hadn't, thanks for the link. It appears to be insect based which is better than fishmeal IMO but still not algae/plant based. I'm really not trying to feed them though. It will likely create more problems than it would solve.

What I do feed them during winter is minimal - like yesterday the algae I fed them was just a couple cups and if you divide that between all the fish, they just got a bite or two if they got any at all.

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To me, feeding the fish is all about GIGO. The less volume of food (higher caloric density) going into the fish's mouth, the less coming out the other end, degrading the water quality. For instance, if I feed 8 ounces of "meat" based food vs. 16-24 ounces of plant based feed, even to Tilapia (which are known to eat small fish if there isn't enough naturally occurring algae) that amount of food is less passing through the fish and less that the "filtration system" in the pond needs to deal with. So you will have better water quality in the pond and better water quality equals a slower eutrophic process in the pond.


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Good discussion. One point to make is that in the great majority of natural systems there is no normal or natural balance. A system is always in a state of change with life balancing on the knife edge. The largest inhibitor of fish health in natural systems is the lack of food , if not now then very soon.

When one variable changes, many others react, creating what is called a trophic cascade. Trophic cascades are powerful, indirect interactions that influence entire ecosystems, occurring when a trophic level in a food web is suppressed, or expanded. In lakes, predator fish can dramatically reduce populations of zooplankton-grazing fish, and these predators can dramatically alter freshwater zooplankton communities, and plankton grazing can, in turn, have large impacts on phytoplankton communities. Removal of planktivorous fish can change lake water from clear to green by allowing phytoplankton to flourish.

Remember this, although the scientific principles may be simple, what you choose to do cascades through several levels of your pond’s biology. For example, if you choose to feed your fish, they will grow, but you will also affect water quality, based on variables of your pond. The fish which eat that fish food will influence the biology of that pond, whether other fish eat the fish food or not. That’s part of the trophic cascade. Management influences biology more than science influences decisions. That’s where the art comes in.
A study titled Effects of a Selectively Reduced Gizzard Shad Population on Trophic Interactions and Age‐0 Fishes in Walker County Lake, Alabama in North American Journal of Fisheries Management 20:860–872, 2000 by Gene W. Kim and Dennis R. DeVries shows how a trophic cascade (in this case caused by rotenone application) can work, and it also shows that the outcomes are not always what are predicted by the science alone.
Within two years of a December 1995 reduction in a population of gizzard shad by rotenone in a 120-acre public fishing lake, their abundance unexpectedly and rapidly returned to high levels.

To assess potential effects of the gizzard shad reduction on primary plankton production, we sampled phytoplankton and water clarity during both years.
Density of larval fishes varied greatly between years. This is usually a sign of unbalanced conditions yet to come. However, in this case, average larval density for all species combined was greater. But after two years, the gizzard shad population developed as it was before the eradication. That’s a living example of filling the void. The void left is an example of a species reproducing as much as possible to occupy the space. This is common in fish and often results in overpopulation.
What that tells us is our decisions don’t affect just one level in our waters.

Last edited by ewest; 01/27/25 01:44 PM.















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Very good explanation of Trophic Cascade. The things that are visual for a pond are just a very small indication of what is actually and truly happening in the entire pond ecosystem. Numerous physical and biochemical systems are always interacting and working together - truly very complex if one understands about what all the systems are and how all the different systems interact together. It truly takes a doctor's educational ability for a full understanding.
Very similar to a human body. Its not just the skeletal system, or blood system. It also involves many systems of the organs, chemistries of cells, and other systems such as digestive system, nervous system, endocrine system, muscular system, respiratory system, vasomotor system, metabolic and enzymatic, glandular systems, and others I did not list.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/29/25 06:19 PM.

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Originally Posted by ewest
When one variable changes, many others react, creating what is called a trophic cascade. Trophic cascades are powerful, indirect interactions that influence entire ecosystems, occurring when a trophic level in a food web is suppressed, or expanded. In lakes, predator fish can dramatically reduce populations of zooplankton-grazing fish, and these predators can dramatically alter freshwater zooplankton communities, and plankton grazing can, in turn, have large impacts on phytoplankton communities. Removal of planktivorous fish can change lake water from clear to green by allowing phytoplankton to flourish.

This seems very counter intuitive to me. Most planktivorous fish eat zooplankton which also consume phytoplankton. So without predators, over-grazing the zooplankton seems intuitive to cause green water resulting in the opposite conditions proposed above. If this isn't the case, then what am I missing?

Also want to mention, high standing weights of gizzard shad tend to cycle sediment nutrients and in at least some waters removing gizzard shad is the central theme of trying to improve water quality.

I very much liked this mention:

Quote
Density of larval fishes varied greatly between years. This is usually a sign of unbalanced conditions yet to come.

This is the bane. Irregular recruitment and year class dominance. It's a problem everywhere for most species.

This is also a very important mention:

Quote
That’s a living example of filling the void. The void left is an example of a species reproducing as much as possible to occupy the space.

Fish are capable of growing at amazing rates and they can also reproduce too much as you mentioned. Conditions that promote growth are also associated with void. First, there must be sufficient energy consumed so that there is an excess above the needs of metabolism. The excess can be converted to gain. The excess declines as the void is filled. So there is a limited amount of gain, where eventually consumption balances with metabolism. In this sense, we really don't want our waters to be at carrying capacity. Being below carry capacity improves fish growth by increasing the excess consumption that can be converted to gain.

Void is also created by mortality. Whether natural or harvest. Mortality improves growth of the remaining. Void is removed by recruitment. Managing the void, so that it isn't too excessive nor too minimal seems (at least to me) to be a central theme of good management. I recall reading Anderson where he noted that the best balance is achieved when at around 50% of carry capacity. Another way of saying that is just the inverse. When there is best balance (Anderson's understanding of balance), the populations (under management) prevent the water from exceeding 50% of fish carry capacity.

Having appropriate numbers of predator and prey adults is central to this where appropriate means to be balanced with the energy influx (both natural and feed) so that the right amount of consumption takes place to meet the growth goals. What throws a wrench in all of this is recruitment and mortality. But for adult fish (LMB > 12" and BG > 6") a balance of annual recruitment and mortality is desired to establish stable growth and stable population structure in an ongoing mature population.
Excessive year class strength risks growth and balance in that sense. In the middle is a desired adult population structure (balanced to energy consumption both natural and supplemental feed). On either side are the two things affecting the adult population ... recruitment and mortality. we can imagine on the left recruitment and on the right mortality and associated with these are the management actions we should take to achieve the adult population structure desired.

Though this may sound "too scientific" and "not artsy enough", I can say this. No amount of art will ever usurp the laws of thermodynamics, energy balance, and population balance. Will never happen. Just as important, understanding energy and population balance isn't enough either. Excessive vegetation, excessive nutrients and poor water quality, poaching, and other factors can affect populations in ways that are difficult to manage. Even so, these factors affect consumption and energy balances so that their effects are evident in growth. In other words, the effects provide data and to the extent they are missing or overachieving goaled growth they provide context that can be used for the "art" of responding to unplanned factors.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/05/25 10:24 AM.

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Those comments were made in relation to natural waters (not heavily managed ponds). Think of it this way - if a water body has 100 variables all of which are related in some uncertain manner and one or more start changing then at some point a cascade event will occur. Many studies provide that constant change is the norm and the concept of long-term balance is the oddity. That is the natural way of things. This is, of course absent man intervening to meet his goals. An over simplified pic below is for example and only shows food web aspects of variables.

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food web 2.jpg
Last edited by ewest; 02/03/25 04:46 PM.















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ewest, no matter what I do I cannot make that image large enough to read it - even on the computer. When I enlarge it it is blurry. What does it say?


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Ditto!


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