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#572286 01/15/25 11:21 AM
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My new 1/4 acre pond is about halfway full: ~6 deep in the deepest section. I added some FHM (maybe a few dozen) 3-4 months ago. I have not fed them. Seen none floating, so I assume they're fine (?) Regardless, it got me thinking that I'd like to test for zooplankton in general....how do I go about this? I googled it and got lots of highly involved scientific papers; I'd like to know if there's just a simple test I can do to see what's floating around in there....if anything...?

Thanks, and if this is a highly naive / newbie question, sorry....I'm learning!

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Calling Bill Cody (whose profession is identifying tiny living things in water).


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No simple test. Can you work a microscope ? Contact Bill Cody !

See this thread.
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=20172&Number=259527#Post259527


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Your question was one of my favorite science projects in 5th grade.

Our class went and pulled samples from several natural water sources. We then put a few drops of water on a glass slide and then added a cover slip.

The organisms we could see with an inexpensive microscope were fantastic. The teacher then had copies from the scientific texts for the most common organisms so we got to identify them.

I still have an old microscope with German optics from the late 50's. I used it with my kids many times when they were doing new science concepts at school.

I don't know if you can find a decent, old microscope on ebay at a good price. If not, a cheap, new scope from Amazon with Chinese optics might be sufficient.

These days on the new ones, I suspect you can get an attachment to the eyepiece so you can take a picture with your cell phone. If you post your critter pictures to Pond Boss, I am pretty sure our experts can identify your organisms ... and the rest of us can get a nice tutorial from your pictures!

Good luck on your analysis!

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As usual, a quicker typist that is well schooled in the art of brevity, posted essentially the same thing while I was typing!

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put a gopro or underwater camera in and leave it for an hour - pull it out and you will most likely see waves of plankton plowing in the water column, and you will see them swimming in front of the lens as well.

Fast forward to about 4:30 in this video and you will see the little whitish specs in front of the camera - those are zooplankton and little giblets of minnow food swimming around.



in this still cam video you can see the light reflecting off them as they float by the camera - it's not silt. The odd time you can see them propelling themselves.


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That is really cool! Great idea! I taught elementary for 25 years....many of them teaching 5th grade gifted...loved it. What a great idea for a science lesson...we didn't really have much we'd need microscopes for. But yeah: I love that idea; I'm already checking for an inexpensive microscope...!

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Here ya go! I've seen prices on the North side of $500.00...... Maybe Cody can tell us how to do it cheaper?

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IMO I'm not sure that going through all the effort and expense of trying to sample and microscopically look at zooplankton in the pond will be worth while and all that beneficial. Not all plankton nets have the same mesh size. The net I routinely use has 64um mesh. Other nets have 80um or 100um mesh sizes that capture only the larger types of plankton. I suggest nothing larger than 80-84um mesh size.

Generally a new pond quickly develops a decent phytoplankton and zooplankton community as soon as the pond gets water in it. However new pond water that is continually muddy / silty does inhibit quick development of plankton. Nature has many ways to introduce microscopic life forms into a pond. Adding water that the FHM came in, I guarantee you this added some tiny phytoplankton and some zooplankton such as protozoans, rotifers and small crustaceans that were too small for the minnows to eat.

Jbrown2004 - have you ever heard of anyone buying a plankton culture from a laboratory supply company and trying to get it established in their ponds?
This is possible and some fish farms sell these natural mixed plankton cultures.

Ewest - I even moved 500 gals of water from one pond to another with no luck even with 'ideal' circumstances. If you find out different I would like to know. Because I tried it 3 times under ideal conditions and it did not work.

CJBS2003 - Why do you think transplanting plankton from one pond to another doesn't work?

In my experience one can move plankton from one water body to another. There is lots of phytoplankton and some forms of zooplankton in each gallon of water “depending” on the conditions of the source water and where it is/was collected. Usually but not always ponds/lakes with what appears as good clean water with no surface blooms, it is generally okay to move water from what seems to be "ideal conditions”. Now - how well the ‘critters’ from the source water survive in the receiving water - that is a completely different matter. In many instances many of the things introduced into the receiving water will live providing they are not eaten or die because of a significant water chemistry change. What thrives in one pond may not survive in the chemistry soup of another pond. All ponds are different, just as all people are different. Each species has its own favorite growing conditions where it just continually ‘gets by’ or it thrives very well and can even create a bloom.

This is why I do not like to add water from one pond into another pond unless I know what is in the source water.

Not all pond owners are capable of doing the microscopic visual check of the source water. However I do this as life’s routine work. I know microscopically what is and can be in water. Thus as a precaution, I always dip net single or double rinse all the fish that I get from a fish farm before stocking them into MY pond. Just dumping someone else’s pond water especially from a fish farm into your pond is IMO risky business. Fish growing water often has low densities of problematic bluegreen and other species of algae year round. At certain times of the year the farms have significant water blooms - some problematic. This practice of putting someone's water directly into your pond can introduce or “seed” potential noxious algae problems from pond to pond.

Almost every fish farm buys some of their fish from other fish farms and this practice potentially spreads different types of microscopic items throughout the distribution network. Another example of this concept is waterfowl spreading some of the common fish parasites from lake to pond or pond to lake. We basically have no control of that, but we do have some control about moving around different pond waters. Another example is DNR’s recommendation of draining your boat’s live well water before entering a new water body.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/17/25 08:01 PM.

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Bill:

With the exception of getting fish from Steve, all the fish farms I pick up fish from use well water, not pond water to fill my transport tanks.


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Originally Posted by esshup
Bill:

With the exception of getting fish from Steve, all the fish farms I pick up fish from use well water, not pond water to fill my transport tanks.

Wow esshup, I did not know that little fact!

Glad to see they are going the extra mile to protect our ponds from a possible negative input.

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I would like to test some of that fish hauling water to see how "clean" it is. It is very easy to get cross contamination. Even some stray fish get mixed into an order from fish farms.


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Originally Posted by Bill Cody
Jbrown2004 - have you ever heard of anyone buying a plankton culture from a laboratory supply company and trying to get it established in their ponds?
This is possible and some fish farms sell these natural mixed plankton cultures.

I most certainly did this with Bill's guidance! I believe I bought 3 cultures of daphnia pulex from Carolina Biological supply. The first culture I seeded directly into my pond. The second culture, I seeded in a container with my pond water in it and kept it inside. The third culture, I seeded in a container with spring water. I initially used large containers filled with 2 gallons of water each (pond water [PW] and spring water [SW]). I did not use food in the PW culture as there was already some green algae (Bill had identified Dictyosphaerium subsolitarium as the predominate phytoplankton at the time) for them to feast on. The SW culture, I would add some yeast to a 20 oz bottle of water, then add a little yeast water for the daphnia to feed on.

After 5 days, the PW culture was doing quite well and had evidence of reproduction (if you looked real close, you could see them with the naked eye). The SW culture, on the other hand, I done killed that puppy by over feeding (a little goes a long way, you certainly do not want to cloudy the water). At that point, I pitched my SW culture, decided my 2gal of PW was far to big at this time, so I got micromesh stainless steel and filtered out my living daphnia to start 2 new cultures, this time 3 cups each, both PW and SW again (feeding far less in the SW culture this time).

After an additional 5 days, both cultures were doing extremely well, with evidence of lots of reproduction in both. I expanded both cultures at that time to 5 cup containers.

3 days later, I noted a new plankton species (2 of them) that Bill identified as cyclops. I likely had some super microscopic eggs in my culture, or potentially came from my PW as well. It wasn't a big deal, but I would use a dropper and slurp them up when I could, just in case.

1 week later (15 days from when I restarted the cultures in 3 cup containers) the PW culture had countless daphnia swimming around, so I seeded that culture into the pond.

3 weeks from that date, I seeded the SW culture in the pond. I continued to grow and expand this culture that entire 3 weeks to really put a large amount into the pond.

This all took place from the end of March to the beginning of May in southern Ohio for reference. About every week or so, I would try to do a 20% water change, using that micro mesh stainless steel so I wouldn't lose any daphnia.
With the SW culture that I was feeding yeast water, I would feed to make it just ever so slightly cloudy, then when it would get real clear, I'd add a little more yeasty mix in. Hopefully these notes can help someone!

As for water clarity, Secchi reading was 24" at the beginning of this, and pretty still hangs around there to this day (almost 2 years later). I will say the minnow and tadpole population is still extremely abundant (I have bluntnose minnows, spotfin shiners, mosquito fish, and fatheads [the fatheads could be dwindling, but that was to be expected for those slow pokes]).


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Interesting story Drew


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

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Originally Posted by Bill Cody
I would like to test some of that fish hauling water to see how "clean" it is. It is very easy to get cross contamination. Even some stray fish get mixed into an order from fish farms.

O.K. Next time I'm getting fish I'll take a sample and preserve it for you. About a medicine bottle enough or do you want more?


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A pill bottle of water with iodine is adequate. Maybe collect a couple samples from different suppliers. and send then all at once.


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Hey Bill, thanks to you and everyone else for the great thoughts. Honestly, my interest is just because it would be cool to see what's going on down there....especially at the microscopic level. For one thing, I'd like to know what my little FHM are feeding on? I'll probably wait a while, then probably get the microscope and the net at some point and see what's what. I'm planning to stock a big batch of FHM and GSH in March, then SBS and HSB in the fall. Maybe some Tilapia as well, but we'll see how things look then.

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Originally Posted by Bill Cody
A pill bottle of water with iodine is adequate. Maybe collect a couple samples from different suppliers. and send then all at once.

Will do!


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BJNick - I assume the SBS are for having some BIG nice panfish. If it were my new pond and considering your plans, I would stock the SBS or at least some of them in Spring with or soon after adding the FHM / GSH. I see no real good reason not to stock the SBS early with minnows to allow SBS to get some decent growth before adding the HSB in Fall. Note HSB are often sold out and not available in Fall and can still be stocked the next spring. Reasons - A. SBS will not be eating very many minnow fry and will be eating mostly the larger available foods that the FHM/GSH cannot eat. B. SBS may very likely be sold out in Fall. If you get HSB in Fall and no SBS, the HSB will be IMO too large when stocking some small SBS. C. If you would like to have a 2nd year class of SBS then add some extras (if available) in Fall. Those SBS in Fall would likely be only 1.5"-2.5" depending on the conditions where they were grown.


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Bill- these sound like good suggestions. Biggest issue I think I'm likely to have is that both SBS and HSB are frequently sold out....so it might be a situation of "you snooze you lose," or "beggars/choosers"/etc. So I'm inclined to follow your suggestions and try to get the SBS going in spring if possible (meaning they are actually available.) Question: "SBS...will be eating mostly the larger available foods that the FHM/GSH cannot eat." Which larger foods are those?

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Update: SBS seem to be the hardest to get b/c they are frequently sold out, or some farms just don't carry them. I just talked to Jones, and though the SBS are listed on the site as "sold out," turns out that is for the smallest size. I can order/reserve the 5"-7" size right now for spring pickup (in Nashville.) I would get a good stock of GSH and FHM at the same time (they suggested 10 lbs. FHM and 5-6 lbs. GSH.)

They said today that the HSB are generally available no problem, in a variety of sizes: 3-4", 5-7, 8-10", and 12"+.

So.....I'm inclined to go ahead and order the SBS right away, and then add the HSB in fall as originally planned. Some questions:

A) The 5"-7" SBS are okay to go ahead and reserve now? (w/the SBS, it sure seems like "get it now while the getting's good.")

B) With your suggestions in mind as to getting the sizing right w/ the HSB, which is the best size to get the HSB for fall stocking? Obviously not the 10" or larger, or there goes my SBS population right away.

C) The Jones gal suggests 50 SBS for my 1/4 acre pond, and 12 HSB. Bill: This seems consistent with your suggestions from 2/23/24: "I would stock 9 to 12 HSB, 20-30 specklebelly (SBS) and some FHM/GSH."

So that's what I think I'll go with, unless you suggest otherwise.

Much appreciate the advice.

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HSB are not known to be major predators of lepomis (BG, RES, SBS etc) as shown in several studies. Obviously the larger the SBS are in comparison to the HSB the less potential for predation. If you can get SBS that are twice the gape limit of the HSB you will be good to go. If you are feeding the HSB and there are FH and GSH present, then predation by HSB on SBS should be minor even on small SBS.
















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Now sure what "gape limit" means exactly- googled it but the definitions provided get pretty thick....I'm assuming it refers to the size prey which the predator will see as potential prey? What they can comfortably consume? In other words, a 5-7" HSB, for example, won't see a similar-sized SBS as prey, but a 12" HSB would. Yes?

In which case, that would support my tentative plan to get 5-7" SBS in spring, along with 10 lb. FHM and 5 lbs. GSH- and 5-7" HSB in fall....(or should I maybe go 8-10" on the HSB? Is there any downside to starting out with the HSB at 5-7"?) In case it matters, I'm not in any hurry to get the HSB up to larger sizes...happy to let things play out.

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You have a pretty good idea of what is "gape limit". I think there is a PB thread that shows the mouth gape size for HSB. Someone might be able to find that thread for you/us. See this old thread where I deal with this topic.
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=373075


IMO fish usually eat things smaller than their gape size because studies have shown it is most beneficial for predators to quickly as possible to capture and swallow the food item so another fish does not steal the food item; a common occurrence and technically called kleptoparasitisim. IMO - If smaller food items are readily available the predators most often choses smaller prey than their gape size. Behavior of prey also enters predation of sizes of food items eaten.

Pond Stocking - You are encountering a common problem. Fish sizes and fish species are not always available due to production limits and shortages to fish farms. Plus Jones is suggesting more FHM/GSH than IMO what you really need for a small 0.25 ac pond that already has some FHM stocked back in Oct 2024. You always have to remember fish farms make a lot of extra money selling lots of minnows and often push too many when no predators are initially stocked. Jones gave you a generalized blanket stocking amount for a 0.25 ac having new predators and for unwise newbee pond owners and assuming predators are stocked right away with the minnows. It is a business.

If you stock 5 lbs FHM and 2-3 lbs of GSH and no predators present this stocking should provide PLENTY of minnows by Fall when you stock some HSB as predators I have stocked 3 lbs of FHM in 0.25ac with fingerling YP and had plenty of minnows present by fall. Use the extra money dedicated to minnows to buy other sport fish. This plan is especially true if you initially pellet feed the SBS and or HSB when get them in Spring/Fall. My experience has been that if too many FHM are stocked with no predators to eat them, the pond quickly becomes over populated with to many small fish and they do not grow and stay around 1". Too many new baby FHM OVEREAT the natural foods (zooplankton) which results in very poor growth. This same thing basically happens with all fishes. Withgood ample spawning habitat present and no predators, you will be amazed at how many minnows will be present in Fall 2025 if you stock 3-5 lbs FHM and 2 lbs GSH and no predators to eat offspring. Provide the correct spawning substrate for GSH and the FHM.

If you stock SBS of any size if you can find them in Spring, they will grow well by eating mostly invertebrates - (myriads of insect larvae that quickly develops in a new pond). If you are able to add some pellets the SBS will grow faster. Then any size HSB that you can stock in Fall will be okay to survive. Ask if Jones sells smaller quantities than 40 lbs of pellets (5-10lbs). Buy a size appropriate for SBS and new HSB maybe 1/8"-3/16".

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/23/25 01:07 PM. Reason: enhancements

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Wow, I was sure I responded to this already, but I don't see my reply.......lots of great info, Bill.....basically my takeaway is that I'll order 50 SBS for spring (5-7"), along with 5 lbs. FHM and 3 lbs. GSH. Then in fall I'll stock 12 HSB (5-7"). I'm working now on creating really good structure for the forage fish (based on what I read in PB), and I'm pretty sure there's plenty of invertebrates happening, according to what you say about new ponds, etc. During summer/fall there were loads of insects out there, water bugs, etc, etc....as well as abundant frogs/tadpoles (loud shrill cacophony every night....music to my ears :-)

Unless I hear differently, that's what I'm planning to do. I want to order now so as to avoid SBS not being available in spring. fwiw: Jones says they pretty much always have the HSB, but I could also go ahead and just order/reserve them now for fall if need be....

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