Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Soil questions Scraper for Compaction

Hello, I am looking into building a pond anywhere from 0.5 acres up to 2.5 acres. I have a few different locations on my property that may be suitable from a topographical/drainage perspective. I will have test holes dug prior to starting any pond. I am currently talking to different pond builders.

One fellow is a dirt mover that also builds ponds. He only uses a scraper for compaction when placing the keyway/core trench. He says that with good clay a scraper alone in lifts should seal up a pond. The other 3 pond builders I've talked to use sheepsfoot rollers. I've read on here a few people using scrapers but most seem to prefer sheepsfoot rollers.

Does anyone have input on this? After digging test holes on site, if the clay is good would you have hesitations having a scraper alone used for compaction. He pulls it with a large tractor.

One of the reasons I like this individual builder is that his references like him and he is relatively affordable. He also quotes the whole job rather than hourly if you like which I do prefer I think. I was considering having him dig a 0.5 acre pond first and budget for a liner in case it doesn't hold water as a fail safe.

Thanks for any input.

A fully-loaded scraper is very heavy. Tires generally provide better compaction than tracks.

However, the tires on a loaded scraper are NOT designed for compaction, they are designed to keep the scraper moving in potentially sticky conditions.

Sheepsfoot rollers and vibratory compactors are designed for compaction. They will do a MUCH better job.

Using a liner as insurance is a pretty expensive option. They are not cheap to purchase, and they are a lot of work to install. Also, the design of the pond basin is different when installing a liner.

Personally, I would hire one of the contractors that uses dedicated compaction equipment to build the pond.

Is the scraper one unit or is it a tractor and scraper?

Thanks for weighing in. I could ask him if he'd be willing to run a sheepsfoot if I rented one I suppose.



It is a tractor and scraper. Two separate pieces of equipment.

I agree on the consensus of scraper not being used for compaction as a guy that had a pond dug with a scraper. They are great for moving dirt and do provide some compaction due to the weight of material being used, BUT they really aren't good for shaping the pond.

We have not had leaks as a result of using the scraper. Areas where the scraper was used to excavate are very hard. Areas that a dozer was used to finish and shape are much softer in the pond bottom.

If I could do it all again....at a minimum I would demand that the core and the entire pond bottom had a sheepsfoot used to finish it all off. At a minimum.

Hi White Oak, welcome to the Pond Boss Forum. I volunteer for multiple organizations as I possess rather specialized knowledge: Pond Construction, rehab, and leak abatement. Contractor, site, and equipment selection at this stage of your project is absolutely critical to get right so you can avoid a call to me in a couple of years dealing with leaks. I’m happy to chat and review your situation and provide my insights to help you moving forward. As a volunteer moderator my time is always free to the folks in this great community.

A scraper can be used with a degree of effectiveness however it’s largely dependent on the plasticity index of our parent material. I’ve seen many ponds built which are relatively leak free dealing with excellent parent material with nothing more than a dozer and excavator. I do not recommend this method just mentioning it’s a very common practice and can work. A pad foot or sheep’s foot roller was designed for a singular purpose: to compact material. I always recommend using compaction equipment, even if a contractor has to rent it. The PSI generated by rollers exceeds that of tracked equipment or rubber wheeled equipment exponentially.

Lots more to review here, including your watershed and annual rainfall, plasticity of your native material, credentials of your contractor, etc. Feel free to reach out and we could schedule a call-I’m happy to help however I can.

tj@hudlandmgmt.com

I also agree with the others who have good experience for the best soil compaction method that is needed for a pond to reliably hold water. Best compaction is critically important. Some dirt movers will skimp on this VERY important part of pond building due to having lack of proper equipment. IMO they try and make do with the equipment they have on hand.

The main reason the weighted scraper is not a good compactor is because it does not knit and intertwine the lift layers together. The scraper smashes the layers however the two layers smashed together as sheets can eventually have seepage develop between those sheets of lifts because the smashed lifts are not well knitted together as one compacted unit. If scrapers were really good at compacting layers of dirt/clay there would not be specialized equipment of sheepsfoot types as soil compactors. Also the mechanical sheepsfoot compactor is the very best because it squeezes water out of the soil so it less likely will allow seepage through it. See more info below.
Think about it. One should use the best tool for the job if you want the best result with the material you are working with. Where this really becomes very important, is ground for building almost all pond basins has a few or several patches or spots where the clay does not have optimum structure and looser soil materials exist. In these areas the soil should be mixed together and these spots are where OPTIMUM compaction becomes VERY important to minimize seepage and leakage in freshly built ponds and then later as pond ages the seepage can work its way between the sheet formed layers created by the Scraper.

I would never use a loaded scraper to build a pond. Way too many chances for leakage spots to occur even when using what looks like all good clay material. It is much cheaper and better to rent the right sheepsfoot compactor than spend time, aggravation and money trying to FIND and fix a pond leak. Just finding the leak site can be a really big challenge. Is it one spot, two spots or several leakage areas? Plus how does one find all those leakage areas???

From construction websites.
Padfoot rollers: Padfoot — or tamping foot — rollers break the bonds between soil particles to compact them better. The tapered feet prevent the soil from fluffing, decreasing its ability to absorb water. Padfoot rollers have large lugs and could either be static or vibratory. The static models are also known as tamping rollers. The drum is covered with bumps that knead and knit the soil layers together and increases its overall compacting strength. Typically, padfoot rollers are used for clay and other fine-grained soils. They operate at high speeds and can also break large lumps. Padfoots are versatile, typically used to compact cohesive soils like clay and silt. They feature a heavy vibrating steel drum with rectangular or cylindrical knobby pads that pierce and compress the soil, resulting in a compacted surface.

The sheepsfoot roller is most effective for compaction of plastic soils like clay or silt, according to Bomag Americas a leading roller manufacturer. The sheepsfoot compacts from the bottom of each lift towards the top. High contact pressures cause the feet to penetrate through the loose material and actually compact the material directly with the foot tip to reach optimal soil compaction levels. A number of passes are required with a sheepsfoot roller because of the small area compacted by each foot. Self-propelled embankment compactors, are capable of higher productivity than towed sheepsfoot rollers because they can travel at higher speeds. A tamping foot mechanical roller has feet, or pads, that penetrate the soil, compacting from the bottom to the top for uniform density. The forces of gravity and vibratory impact simultaneously compact from the top down. Due to the foot shape, and in combination with vibration, these rollers achieve a kneading and impact effect while the imprints left contribute to a reduction of water content.

I was always told by a soil scientist that double barrel sheepsfoot is much better at compaction for creating pond liners than single barrel pull behind sheepsfoot rollers

Here is the in depth Soil Compaction Pond & Dam Building thread from the Pond Boss Archives
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=542647#Post542647

I'm in the sheepsfoot roller club. Give Michael Gray Construction a call, they do great work. https://www.grayconstruction.net/

I don't know how far you are from Columbia, Tn, though.

We have success with a tractor and scraper but it takes a skilled and knowledgeable to do this successfully.

Thank you everyone for such in depth information. I'll make sure we have a sheepsfoot roller on site. And thank you TJ for that generous offer! I may take you up on that.

We've had one pond built with a scraper and excavator. But, my contractors Dad began the business in the early 50's building Dams for the Feds Flood prevention program for the Washita River Watershed. He had 3 scrapers on my project and he and his son spent days digging and days more compacting the core trench and dam going over each lift repeatedly. Best I can tell 2 years later , not a drop lost. Wouldn't want just ANY DIRT MOVER doing the work with the scraper, But my builder has 60 years of experience building dams, & is very proud of his work. The quality of the clay to work with here, may be conducive to using a scraper also , I wouldn't know. Now, after all that, if I didn't have my contractor, I would insist on a sheepsfoot , but even with that, it doesn't guarantee the builder knows and keeps track of the moisture content or will take the time to make the proper # of passes over each lift to properly compact, there's more than just having a tool , there's how to properly use the tool.