Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Corrective stocking Recovering from a fish kill (LMB)

I purchased a home back in May with a 2 acre pond. I fished it through the summer and caught many nice 2-3lb LMB and a couple 4+. The fish were plentiful but very aggressive and still fun to catch. Very healthy looking bass. The pond had been managed for algae previously but otherwise I think stocking was untouched for many years. Due to the timing of the house sale and the priorities of the previous owner, usual maintenance of dyeing and the start up of aeration was missed. I did not even realize there were aerators installed in the pond that had been shut down the previous winter. Once I realized this - in late June after speaking with the owner - I wanted to begin aerating to attempt to get the algae and duckweed under control. I watched some YouTube videos to understand the basics and knew I had to start up slow. I started at 30 mins and doubled the time daily. There are 3 aerators on a 3/4hp pump spread across the pond. Apparently I did not go slow enough and the day after I ran for 12 hours I triggered a massive fish kill of some of the largest fish in the pond. Some smaller ones also died but from visual inspection not in huge numbers. I pulled out about 15 2+ lb LMB though. Given that the pond was seemingly very healthy (in terms of fish population) prior to this, I want to return to this level of larger fish as quickly as possible. I also intend to re-stock a decent amount of forage species in case there was a larger die off than I was able to detect.

My questions are:

1. Is it possible to source LMB in the 2+ lb range or is this unrealistic? I am in NE Ohio.
2. When is the best time of the year to re-introduce them?
3. If I won't be able to source them at that size - what is my next best option to restore a good population of larger fish as quickly as possible in terms of size and population?
4. At what concentration should I re-stock forage species along with whatever LMB I add?

I am really heartbroken by what I did to this pond and I am hoping I can restore it to something close to it's former glory without waiting years.

There are still some decent size bass in the 1lb range in the pond. I don't have any sense for how many but I have caught a handful. I can also see quite a few packs of LMB in the 6" size range lurking off the end of the dock. There still seems to be a healthy population of bluegill but they are generally pretty small.

The average depth is probably around 4' with the deepest being 8-9'. One day I would like to get it dredged and deepened but that is a few years down the line.

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks!

I'm sorry to hear about the fish kill. Introducing new adult LMB in the pond will be hard. 1) Due to the cost of the fish and 2) due to them not "knowing" the pond and not knowing where to hunt for food. Typically new adult LMB in a pond will lose weight. If the forage base is correct, your existing LMB can add 2+ pounds per year.

The biggest thing is to get the aeration running full time, and make sure that there are plenty of forage fish in the pond of the correct size. LMB like to eat fish and grow the fastest when they are eating fish that are 1/3 to 1/4 their body length. SO, the best way to get the LMB to grow is to make sure your bluegill have plenty of food, and that the BG are of the correct size distribution.

You can start a feeding program for the BG wiht a good quality fish food such as Optimal Bluegill food, and in turn that will help the LMB grow faster. Starting next year you should harvest around 40 pounds (20lb/ac) of LMB from the pond of all sizes per year to ensure that your pond doesn't get LMB stunted (overcrowded).

To give you an idea how fast the LMB can grow, we have stocked fingerling LMB (3"-4") in early May and the customer was catching 2# LMB in late September. If there is enough food in the pond they will grow extremely fast.

Thanks for the reply and that is good to know. Do you think I should still proceed with any stocking at all or just let things balance out and recover on their own (with the addition of starting to feed bluegill to increase their size)?

You don't want to do any stocking until the weather cools off some, perhaps in a month. Until then, I suggest sampling via angling or seining to see what you have left in terms of both forage and LMB. Then use that info to decide your restocking strategy.

Two rules of fish kills:
1. There are more dead fish then what you can see.
2. There are more fish left than you can believe.

^^^ +1 with what Theo said.

Ditto onTheo

Based on your visual assessment of "There are still some decent size bass in the 1lb range in the pond. I don't have any sense for how many but I have caught a handful. I can also see quite a few packs of LMB in the 6" size range lurking off the end of the dock. There still seems to be a healthy population of bluegill but they are generally pretty small."

If you are correct about a "healthy population of BG", then I don't think and I am confident you do NOT need to buy more LMB. Your 2 acre pond will grow bigger bass more quickly when fewer bass are in the pond rather than lots of 8"-13" bass.

As Theo suggests: I would buy a 20ft to 50ft minnow seine. (A good place is Douglas Net Company. Tell Kelly that Bill Cody referred you).. Use the seine to sample your fish composition in the beach area. Do it every year. You can use PVC pipe as seine poles . You should be able to find a few small young of year LMB in the net seine samples. A few sampled 2"-4" LMB plus your several observed 1lb LMB and a few packs of 5"-7" LMB will be MORE than enough bass to get your 2ac pond quickly by next year back to LMB with sizes of 2lb as noted IF the bass are well fed producing growth ratea noted above by esshup. LMB will in OH will grow 1 lb per year IF they are not over crowded (to many per ac) WHEN they have enough of the RIGHT sizes of BG to eat (esshup above) . LMB stop growing around 1 lb per year when they do not have enough forage fish to eat. If the pond in 3 yrs doesn't t have 4lb to 5 lb LMB then there are likely too many bass with too few BG of the 3"-5" size group as easy catch food. For growing 3lb - 5 lb bass ponds usually have too many 9"-12" LMB AND not enough BG / sunfish & forage items.

Don't buy any more FHM for stocking if you want to grow bigger bass. Lots of reproducing BG will easily grow 3lb to 6lb LM bass WHEN the bass are not over crowded. Each adult bass can and needs to eat 300-400 BG per year. to grow that 1 lb per year. When the bigger bass are not growing 1" as an additional 1 lb per year they are not getting enough of the adequate food.

II think the reason your pond prior to the fish kill did not have 4lb to 5 lb bass was there were too many bass. The fish kill may actually have been a plus for the pond not a big negative,,,, IF your goal was to have some larger bass in the 3lb - 5 lb sizes.

Over the winter read, reread, and learn a lot about what it takes for growing good sizes of LMbass in this long thread:
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=255372#Post255372

+1 to all Bill said. Especially want to add to this.


So it could be a blessing. What has happened here "could" have similar effect as an extended drawdown in water volume and surface area. Subsequent growth will depend on the population density of the LMB and production of forage. For a pond that carries 80 lbs of adult LMB as a food limitation and fish don't live longer than 6 years as adults, 1 lb of growth (average) for adult LMB corresponds to a population density of adults of 20 LMB/Acre. Your mileage next year will depend on the population density and what weight of LMB your pond is capable of supporting.

Would be great if you could identify adult sized individuals by fin clips so you could track individual growth but if not their RW will be reflection of whether they are eating near satiation. Adult females growing at 1 lbs annual weight increment will average around 138.

esshup,

When I first read I was like "WOW" but this is within what is possible. Those fish appear a little hungrier than Boondoggle's ... but not by much. Boondoggles' are YOY at around 2" stocking in June. 3"-4" LMB are probably not YOY. Definitely not produced in ponds same year and available in early May. These stocker fish could be "runts" that didn't make the growth of siblings in the year prior. It is also possible they were from different cohorts produced by manipulating spawning to occur during a different time of year. Of the two possibilities, I think the most likely is that these were slower growing siblings.

The key component of growth is consumption. So obviously these 3"-4" LMB could not have been runts due to "genetics" of slow growth. There must have been other factors controlling how much they ate when raised with their siblings. One key factor is competition and behavioral traits that support competitive advantage in highly competitive environments (high fish density). Everything a fast growing competitive fish eats is forage/(OR feed) that less competitive fish are not eating. When these slower growing siblings were placed into a pond where they could eat all they would (low LMB density with abundant forage) their growth was just outstanding to say the least.

Lots of good info and questions from the responses here. I might have missed it and some of your info is different than mine on region and pond equipment. I think I might look at this one a two prong approach.

First up - Aeration. I don't have aeration in my pond yet but will be an addition as we get power at the property in the future. Did you do anything special on startup like...removing the heads and cleaning the gunk off of them? Again, I don't have this option in my pond but have read some of the posts on PB that the heads need to be cleaned up annually to keep them on good shape.

Second up - Fish. Depending on your goals (Big Panish, Balanced, or Big LMB) your stocking might be different and I would hazard a guess that if RW's were known on the remaining fish population responses to what, if anything, to add would be different from many people here. Next time you fish, take a tape measure and a scale with you to measure up the fish you catch (Panfish and LMB). If you post the length and weights of the fish you catch in the thread many of the people here can help you with RW's if you don't know how to do it.

I agree with the fish kill perhaps not being the worst thing that has happened on the pond and actually might be a good thing for you and the remaining fish. Sucks to lose them but at the same time the fish population needs some help with removal of fish to keep it in balance. Several posts on the PB forum include removal of 10-20lbs of LMB culling per acre per year. What you noted in your original post falls right in that spot.

Things to keep in mind:

Dye will darken the water to help with weed control. It will also limit the plankton bloom in the water (bottom of the food chain for your baby fish). It will likely also lower the overall carrying capacity of the pond as there is a more limited food supply from the bottom which translates through the pond to the other fish (my opinion).

Pellet Feeding the fish will help promoting the fish that eat it directly and the fish that eat those fish indirectly. I don't know if this offsets dye use completely but it definitely helps.

This fall would be a great time to check the length and weight of the fish and post some info on what you are seeing. Stocking suggestions will be much more accurate with additional info. Personally, I wouldn't add any more LMB without knowing some RW's on the existing population. I'd bet if the RW's of the existing populations came back at 75-95%, 95-105% or 105+% stocking suggestions would be different from any poster here.

Good luck and welcome to PB!

From a fish farm down South where they manipulate spawning.

esshup,

Do they certify age? For example, when the fish were hatched? When were they hatched? How were they raised from hatching to 3-4" in length. For example, in RAS or in ponds? Also who is the grower of those fingerlings?

What are their genetics? Did they finish High School? Do they come from broken homes?

Exactly Theo. 3"-4" fingerlings are just part of process of growing 10" fingerlings each year. They are the "runts" and at 75 cents a pop the growers in Lonoke County are not going to throw them away. They will grow remarkably anyway under circumstances of reduced competition.

Expanding and helping to clarify on what esshup and jpsdad say above.

Esshup (personal communication) says “2.5 – 3.5” LMB were hatched end of Feb and he stocked them into a new pond at end of May as 90 day old fish feed trained and growing 1mm/day (90mm/25.4mm=3.5").

jpsdad says "When these slower growing siblings as 3”-4” in June 01 were placed into a pond where they could eat all they would/could (low LMB density with abundant forage) their growth as esshup says of 2lb by late September was just outstanding to say the least."

Apparently the larger 3.5” ones grew to 2 lb by late September. Normally not all fish stocked will grow a the same rate. Usually some the larger individuals of a stocking will grow faster that its shorter siblings. I estimate a very fat 2 lb LMB would be around a RW of 140 meaning the bass was close to
13.5"-13.75" by end of Sept. End of Sept puts the bass as a total of 210 days old and 343mm long (13.5") at 2lb. If the growth is calculated from end of May or June 01 to end of Sept 30 as 120days and growth was from 3.5" to 13.5" (10" as 254mm) then after stocking the bass grew 2.1mm/day. 254mm/120days = 2.1mm/day. OUTSTANDING growth as noted by jpsdad. This shows the importance of locating and buying well fed fingerlings and placing them into a pond full of the right sizes of forage fish for them as they increase in size. It is possible when done the best way as promoted here on the Pond Boss Forum.

Wish there was data on that along the way. Fastest growing fish I have seen in the pond was 1.85mm per day. Would be very interesting to see how it works if they were lower RW in the journey and bulked at the end or maintained the weight the whole way through.

Fair to assume the feed training occured in climate control or warm region (Feb - June)?

Feed training was done in in Arkansas with flow thru well water. I honestly don't know what the water temp was, but I do know that when I pick up fish the well water temp is 63°F. Now will the water temp in the tanks be warmer? Maybe. Lonoke, Arkansas area. The hatching, feed training and holding tanks are under a roof, but it has no sides on it and it can get early morning sun. (until around 8-9 am.)

Fish that are grown under a roof for the entirety of the life to fingerling stage quite simply cannot afford to be "feed trained". Even before they have absorbed their yolks, they will have to be consuming feed in the form of finely granulated fry meal just to keep up on a age basis a control that is growing in a fertilized pond. Any swim fry that don't just take to the feed very soon will very soon die. The slowest to take to feed and survive will probably be smaller than peers. Definitely not saying it cannot be done, but it isn't without risk. There are only so many brooders and the eggs, milt, and swim up fry are valuable. Survival to fingerling stages is key determiner of profitability.

I would love to learn from this experience. Esshup, please report the name of the grower hatching LMB in February and growing them to 4" by May under the roof. I am to be in Arkansas in a few weeks and may try to tour the facility. If not this trip, perhaps on a later one but at least for now I will accept your explanation of the age of the fish.

It's sad when people don't know that they are being made fun of.

So true

Look, indoor rearing of LMB from swim up fry to fingerling stages isn't uncomplicated and it is not widely or commonly practiced. I hadn't done a google search on it in a few years but my library literally has no papers on the subject. I just googled today and found this :

https://portal.nifa.usda.gov/web/cr...-critical-early-life-history-stages.html

From their summary:



The goal:


The results of this study will be made available to the public in the 2027 - 2028 time frame I suspect. The project was funded and began last year and will be competed in 2027.

They are going to try a number of prospective strategies feeding cultured live foods (rotifers and artemia) and then transitioning to feed. It will be interesting to see which of the strategies work best. The main differences between strategies will be the age when live food is eliminated.

It may not be widely publicized, but that is the difference between sitting in an office or house looking at the computer for data instead of getting out in the real world, getting your hands dirty and getting hands on data. It's common in the fish hatchery business in Arkansas where they raise millions and millions of fish annually for pond stocking. Will a business publish a paper on how they do it? Why would they and give their competition a leg up on making $$? That would be business suicide. What is the definition of "widely or commonly practiced"? It's common in the fish raising business. A few years ago I picked up 30,000 3/4" LMB from a hatchery in Arkansas in early January and brought them to an indoor Recirculating Aquaculture facility in Ohio so they could be raised for pond stocking in late Spring. I'm sure that the hatchery in Arkansas didn't hold them since the natural spawning time of late April and starved them to keep them at that size - they were tiny chunky footballs when I picked them up.

If you want to check on-line published data on manipulating spawning for predatory fish and how they are raised 100% indoors, look for a paper that was published by UW Stevens Point on spawning and raising Walleye for the food industry. They figured out how to spawn Walleye 12 months of the year, and they never saw pond water. IIRC it's about 60 pages.

Even sadder when they don't know they've been spanked.

Not sure it was so subtle. I took it as ignored the post rather than didn't know. I'd add that it's a little uncomfortable to watch it unfold on a public forum. I thought we were all here to be friends, learn and grow as pondmeisters. How is it exactly that making fun and spanking adds to this thread?

Boon, I'm new to the forum and agree 100% with your statement. I'm here to learn from those who have valuable experience and there are many on this forum but I do not see how those comments contribute.