Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain Walleye yellow perch pond

I have a 2.5 acre pond in NE Kansas. My ultimate goal is to produce 1-3 pound yellow perch. Last year we had our first fish kill in 20 years. The only that I can tell that survived is millions of small bluegill and some of the the smaller lmb. Because of this fish kill we had an explosion of coontail covering 95% of the surface. I’ve since added a 4 diffuser Airation system from the pond guy. Tried diquat and cutrine plus mixed with low results. Added 150 grass carp that seem to be finally making some dents. I’m also using airmax eco boost to bind phosphates currently.last fall I added golden shiner fry from Anderson minnows and this spring I added brooders. I’m now seeing shiners in abundance and all size classes of bluegill as I feed aquamax mvp regularly so I get to see a lot of them. Bass are also in different size classes, but probably none over 3 pounds. Supposed to get 300 feed trained yellow perch this fall in the 7-9 inch range. My question is, how many walleye per acre can I add and when is the best time? I really want to feast on YP, but catching a few walleye once in a while would be a bonus. Hopefully I have given enough background on the pond. Deepest is around 14-16 foot after spring rains. Average is around 8-10 foot. Thanks!

First, it’s going to be very difficult to get a good YP fishery with LMB present. Bass love YP. Not saying it’s impossible but will be a struggle.

Walleye may not do well girth-wise in a pond that size. They’re just not well adapted to it. So they’ll struggle to put on weight, but should attain good length.

Bluegill and shiners will compete with your more desirable YP.

If big-ish YP are what you want, only way I can think of is removing everything else as much as possible. Make sure there’s good vegetative cover so they can spawn.

It will be a challenge. These are tough goals to accomplish. I think it’s possible though, with a LOT of work.

I’ve done okay with YP in it before. Peaty sure they all died last fall though during our massive fish kill. There’s a lot less bass in there now. Mostly shiners and bluegill.

I stopped at the add of 150 grass carp over 2.5 acres.

Who recommended that, please?

Agree with Sunil.

After they eat down the existing plants, those carp are going to make the pond awfully muddy searching for their next meal.

I don't think the YP are going to thrive in muddy water.

I also believe it will be tough to have large YP in a pond with LMB.

Snipe is already over 2# for his YP in NW Kansas. You might do an advanced search using his name and see what his species population mix is for those good results?

Sunil, they will be removed as the coontail problem gets under control. This was the advice given by one of the group experts on here. I have no problem removing the bass if that’s what it takes. There aren’t many left as of now after the fish kill.

John, thanks.

That's a bit disturbing if someone from Pond Boss suggested to put that many grass carp in a pond. That's like (60) per acre. Crazy.

I'm not sure how easily removed they will be.

John,

Do you or any of your buddies bow hunt? One of my buddies is an excellent shot, and he used to bow hunt big carp.

Once they clean out your pond, there should be certain times of the year when the big carp will sit mostly motionless in the shallow water with their dorsal fin sticking out into the air. They are an easy shot then and you should be able to clear some of the big ones in that manner.

We have also caught tons on doughballs with rod and reel. However, other times we can't get them to bite. I am not a good enough fisherman to know why they were biting like crazy some days, and then not at all on other days?

Yes, I have friends that bow fish. With the amount of coontail I’m guessing it’ll be at least a year before I get good results. I commonly see their dorsal fins coming up out of the water. They are triploid so it’ll just be a matter of taking the time to remove them as needed. Hopefully with the new aeration system, the carp, and eco boost I’ll get ahead of it some day. Will also be adding 170 tons of limestone rip rap to the dam in the next couple weeks for many beneficial reasons. Sunil, the actual advice was 75 per acre and then remove as needed. I have an extreme circumstance.

"Sunil, the actual advice was 75 per acre and then remove as needed. I have an extreme circumstance."

Thanks, John.

I am just curious. Sunil, who PM'd you to ease back on John?


I didn't advise on this but given the circumstances I am reluctant to judge the stocking rate. I just love the circumstances here because I empathize with you John. We have a 17 acre community lake nearby that is just excessively taken over with coontail. Nearly every other BOW is plagued with naiad.

A lot of money can be spent on herbicides with little long term success. This may actually be the best (for the pond ecosystem) solution and the most cost effective one where the population is trimmed to customize the coverage of macrophytes.

John, I would love to see you make the biological control of coontail a thread in and of itself. I suspect your GC are growing maximally and this is just a unique opportunity to understand maximum GC growth and how standing weights are working with your particular situation. I also see this an opportunity (personally) to try to build an energetics model around GC and coontail. Your progress on control would be very interesting to follow. Would you consider doing this?

"I am just curious. Sunil, who PM'd you to ease back on John?"

You may be delusional. Seek help, for your own sake. John answered my question, and I thanked him.

Jpsdad, I could certainly try to do something there. I’ve always had trouble uploading photos over the years. I wish I could show how bad it really is. It’s probably closer to 98% coverage than 95% and that to include the deep water. I did swim through it with a life jacket and verify there is open water underneath, but it’s mostly unfishable. The grass carp I added this spring were 6-8 inches. Just by site I suspect they are pushing 3-4 pounds easy. A month ago I added 75 more 8-10 inchers to make the total of 150. I am now starting to see the shoreline clear out around 5 foot from the bank. There are also two other areas away from shore that are getting bigger by the week. I can see them actively chewing and pulling on the coontail. I’m also actively feeding aquamax mvp and happy to see for the most part the GC are ignoring it. There is an area I cleared where I feed so I can clearly see what fish are feeding and those that are not. I’m seeing 4-6 inch shiners and bluegill of all size classes. I sure love feeding time. I’ll see what I can do with a separate thread. I usually get overwhelmed with things to do on the acreage and forget to come back her to post. However, I’m now retired and my full focus is on the pond this year. Thank you for the comments.

John,

That's great.

Tell you what. I can help you with photos. PM me if you would like to have my email address and I could post the photos in your new thread. I post photos using IMGUR.COM. I could walk you through that or point you to a thread by FishingRod that covers it. Whatever I can do to help you with that I will oblige.

That's just amazing growth. I have through the years collected a library of papers on grass carp and grass carp energetics. I have not spent a great deal of time in review and study of them however. Just collected them with the intent on opening that chapter of my studies if I ever felt I needed to later. Having really come full circle with LMB energetics, growth, and RW, I am needing other areas of research to focus on. So to say the least, I am excited to study your pond and vicariously experience your progress and challenges along the way.

It will be your thread. I'll not post energetics and estimates in it. For the community it would be great to keep us updated with progress on control and grass carp metrics in terms of growth and condition. What I would personally hope for would be length and weight measurements both in Fall and in Spring. These would be extremely helpful to me along the lines of understanding growth, condition, standing weights, in your pond. Would be great if you could post this kind of information and also the culling metrics as you thin them. So indeed, I would be getting something but in exchange I want you know that I would share what I learn with you. Possible benefits to you would be obtaining timely advice that the current standing weight is about to overdo the vegetation eating and recs of a ladder system that would be most optimal for your ponds production of coontail. So for the cost of friendship, taking metrics, and sharing your acquired knowledge ... I would return that generosity with friendship and knowledge sharing too. So this part is up to you. Reach out by PM if this is something you would be interested in pursuing.

One of things many people miss about GC is that they do offer angling opportunity that add to the flavor of a BOW. They can add diversity and in as much as that is true they can, even from an angling perspective, enrich the experience. They need a productive BOW and yours meets that criteria. So I do hope GC will not only help you achieve control of coontail, but that they will also add a layers of additional fun and entertainment. GC happen to comprise the greatest weight of food fish production in the world. More GC are consumed by humans than any other farmed fish. If you are of mind to try one when you cull it, I would very much appreciate your take on flavor and fitness for consumption. Anyways, thank you for considering to do this.

On a final note. Considering Omaha's comments about Walleye, I wonder if you may gain a better experience with Saugeye. Reach out to Snipe to see if that might be an option for you and whether he could supply them.

Sorry if you took offense to that, Sunil. But I couldn't tell that your question was answered in the thread itself. You see, it seemed clear to me that you wanted to get to the bottom of "Who made that recommendation?". I didn't see that question answered in the thread but indeed you seemed satisfied. I just connected the non-delusional dots and it seemed very plausible that you gained that information from outside the public conversation. Hey if you didn't, then kudos to you.

Grass carp can be dangerous in shallow water if spooked. I have seen adult males knocked out of a boat incurring broken ribs from spooked (by a seine net) airborne carp at 60 lbs. I would not have suggested putting in that many carp. On small ponds it might be easier to drain and scrape out the grasses than catch out lots of big carp. Option would be to drain the pond once the carp have eaten the grass out or rotenone/hydrated lime.

Those are Asian carp that do the jumping. 2.5 acres isn’t exactly a small pond or an easy process to drain and fill. They are sterile so it’s a simple process of removing as needed.

Jpsdad

It’ll probably be quite a while before I will get my hands on any of the carp. When I do I can certainly take weight and length measurements. I also do plan to try eating some. I’ve heard people say they are delicious. I won’t be adding any predators such as walleye anytime soon. Definitely plenty of time to do more research. I’ve read it’s possible to get walleye to spawn by using a water agitator to create a current along the bank if it’s sandy with gravel. Pretty interesting concept. My biggest concern right now is getting my yellow perch going again. They were doing well before the big fish kill. I assume they all died as they are one of the first to suffer from low DO. There were way more bass in there before so I know they can survive and spawn. Thanks for the comment about Sauger. I’ll look into that.

I went to a restaurant in Budapest, Hungary with a local friend that was away from the tourist area. They had a big tank in the window where you could pick your carp for dinner! (I had only previously seen that in the U.S. for lobsters.)

I have never eaten carp despite catching a lot, but apparently many people do consider them tasty! Please post a good preparation/recipe on the forum if you ever make a delicious dinner out of some or your carp.

Bruce Condello mentioned smoked Grass Carp once.

Theo, that’s probably what I’ll do with them.

I spent a year in West Germany back in the mid 70s as a serviceman. Many a Gasthaus had a fish tank with 1 to 3 pound carp on display. Diners would pick out the fish they wanted, it was prepared in 30 to 45 minutes while we drank a liter or 2 of the local bier, and our choice was presented for our dining pleasure. Deep fried in herb flavored oil quickly became our favorite. If my memory serves me well, the carp was equal to the best fish and chips we can get here in the US.
The fish were raised in relatively shallow, gravel lined ponds and fed grains and vegetables. There was no comparison to the muddy flavored common carp of American waters. I've always been interested in trying to raise those carp in similar ponds.

All this talk is making me hungry.

I have 1-8# carp in my (usually) clear running creek.

I wonder if I should try to catch and cook a few of the small ones?

My brother has a nice smoker and my wife has a nice deep fryer. Sounds like a fair competition for a taste test!

If the bottom of the clear running stream is clean, you have a chance that the carp may be satisfactorily edible. Give it a try and let us know.
As you may know, carp were originally brought to this continent from Europe specifically as food fish. They certainly disappointed American tastes, probably because our warm lakes and streams have skanky mud bottoms, ruining the quality of their meat.

Discard the darker meat along the lateral line that is sometimes called a mud vein. And, watch out for bones. Carp are bony.