Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Renovating a Pond or Lake? My new pond documentary :)

Can I assume if I was to stock bluegill now, they wouldn’t survive without minnows?

Well, they will need something to eat, and your pond will have yet to have developed any other kind of natural food sources.

That's why I mentioned a feeding program.

However, as Bill Cody said, you can easily wait until Spring to stock fish.

Most of us here can't stand the anticipation and thus feel the need to stock waters as soon as possible.

Waugamans Bait Store on State Rt. 1035 has fatheads in stock. You could always get a few dozen and throw them in.

Also, when I used the word 'acclimate' in a previous post, that means to match the water temp of the bucket you're carrying the fish (to be stocked) in, to the water in the pond. Generally, this is done by pouring pond water into the bucket gradually, over 15 minutes or so, until the bucket water matches the pond water. There are other tricks for that, but that's the basics.

With your water temps right around 70 degrees, you could still pull off some fathead spawning this week and the next few weeks.

I just got back from Waugamans, they are 5 miles from my home and are supplied by Willow Springs. I’m sitting by the pond acclimating…….

Pond water today is 75F. Weather over the next week spose to be in the 80s is why I jumped over to Waugamans, got their last pound. Getting more when they take delivery this week.

BDB,

You might ask your supplier how late in the year they will stock BG. They should know the local rule of thumb.

FHMs start spawning in the spring at around 64F (plus some other factors). If you put them in now with some spawning habitat, they might sense that the waters contain zero fry and try to pull off a late spawn. (Since the water is still "warm" to them, although the daylight is waning.)

I deepened an 80 y.o. groundwater pond last fall that went dry during the drought. I just did it to water my wildlife, but I was amazed at how quickly it filled with invertebrates, water plants, and FA - with no connection to any surface waters.

If part of your swamp water or swamp sediment got incorporated into your new pond, you might be surprised at how quickly new life will fill in their newly available environmental niche. The FHMs also need something to eat, but I suspect things within their diet have already started growing in your pond.

So, was your stocking experience just slightly euphoric..............or uncontrollable joy thus revealing your future life purpose???

lol, I’ve done too many acclimations to get to the euphoric stage. I was most concerned about loss and it wasn’t bad, definitely less than 5%. It’s nice and fun to know the cycle begins.

Funny, one of my neighbors, who has a pond, visits mine regularly. She is a bird watcher/photographer, loves ponds, and she sent me pictures of a few of the dead FHM. I let her know I’d just kilt them.

Told her about the forum, I’m sure she’ll visit!

Oh, I see. I thought it was your first.

Because the pond was mostly filled in Aug-Sep, I would not add any BG or sunfish. I would even consider not even adding FHM anymore this Fall; although you can add some FHM to get a small group well established in the new pond water conditions for healthy individuals for a Spring spawn. In my experience new stocker FHM from bait suppliers will very likely not be in an egg bearing nor spawning condition enough for the short time available for the water to be in the FHM preferred spawning temp. Stocker FHM have usually been in crowned conditions and have been food deprived so they tolerate movement, handling and stocking. Stocker fish are almost always deprived of food prior to being moved, held and sold. Aged water and future warm water conditions and FHM food availability are all lacking in very new water in early Fall. Very soon in West PA ,water will be lower than 60F temperature conditions below spawn temp for FHM. Been there and experienced with this. If you add some FHM add only about 1/3 to 1/2 the suggested number so they have enough natural food of the limited food available to be able to accumulate some better body condition to tolerate winter ice cover conditions.

Let the pond develop during fall, winter and early spring to build a better and stronger natural good supply of plankton and numerous invertebrate species. Then add more FHM and other fish so they are placed into a pond teeming with natural foods that will be available for any new small stocker fish. New fish in Spring will survive better and grow better plus and older FHM and new added FHM will be able to spawn better and provide more of a natural food invertebrate basis compared to adding many fish now that overeat whatever new invertebrate foods that are trying to develop a small foods community in this very new water pond. Give the pond and natural production time to develop first before overloading it with new fish in a current low production pond system.

Not bragging, but I am a trained aquatic biologist with experience of invertebrate food production in new pond systems. Now if you are going to feed the minnows and new BG appropriate sized high quality foods to get them well conditioned this fall until water gets 50F then more small fish can be stocked now.

Noted, BG wasn’t in the plan this year. It’s my belief there is plenty of food for the minnows from my research on their diet and I did keep cover in the pond for critters. The original “pond” never dried up and wasn’t disturbed, other than the dozer getting buried in it. The area always had some water in it, not sure if that matters in light of your comments. I’m not sure what was in it but it is now polluted with frog and tadpoles.

Thanks a lot Bill ….. please continue to follow and suggest. Much appreciated!

I've been in contact with BDB, and he sent me a video of what looks like a bunch of fish hitting the surface in his pond, and this was BEFORE he put any fatheads in. He says what's shown in the video is happening all over the pond.

I've asked him to post the video here if he can.

Let’s try this …….

I've seen similar activity from mudpuppy-like amphibians and even tadpoles. Try taking a sample of what's in the pond. You've stocked FHM and these should show up in samples but see what else is actually there.

On one occasion in the mountains of Colorado I came across a pond that had that kind of activity. But no fish at all. Got all excited at first and tried to fish it. Finally, after closer inspection they were some kind of gilled amphibian very reminiscent of the mudpuppies we would get in our crawdad pond.

Yeah, BDB does not think it's fish as it was close to a dry hole before he got it filled.

The only life I’ve witnessed in the pond is frog and tadpole. I’ve stocked only FHM and this was in the pond prior …. The only chance of fish life I know of is from a neighbors small pond (lower right) but I can’t believe it possible of the numbers I witness. Upper left is my pond location and outlined size.

BDBeaux,

For the record, I did not think you thought the activity was fish. My impression from Sunil's post that you reached out to him be email with the video to get his opinion. My impression was that Sunil either thought they were fish or wanted us to think they were fish. I mean I didn't know how else to interpret :


Hopefully, you don't have early colonization but you should expect fish to wash down from that pond if it has fish. Does that big pond also drain into the smaller pond? Anyways, filling so late in the year like this is a good thing as that would lessen the impact of early colonization if it were to happen.

Pretty dang cool what you were able to do in the power line easement. Kudos to you.

the video seems to show insects moving quickly up from the water and then back down to the surface creating disturbance when they land. I see bugs. Usually you can get to the original youtube video and slow down the playback and get a better idea.

sample nets would also help confirm if anything except FHM show up in the trap/nets

If it was an old beaver pond, and then later a swamp, then there could literally be almost anything in there.

However, none of the little surface pips look like they came from anything sizeable.

If they are fish, they appear to be a small species.

Anything called a "minnow" in PA that is considered invasive or undesirable?

Any invertebrates/amphibians/salamander creatures in the area that are undesirable?

I suspect once you get BG or eventually a larger predator into the pond, they will eliminate any slow-moving critters.

Also, I don't think those size of pips in the video indicate something large enough to consume your FHMs. However, I have been wrong plenty of times before!

Keep observing your new pond. Maybe someday when you have clear water you can throw in some bread crumbs and see what is hitting the surface.

Have fun developing your pond!

Thank you!

Sunil had been a tremendous help and yes we do go off forum. He recommended we bring it to the forum. As far as it being bugs and my lengthy observations, bugs are not evident. If fish washed down from my neighbors smaller pond, I have a hard time accepting the numbers. In the evening, the amount of “rings” is tremendous in all corners of the pond, pond is estimated at 1.7 acres. And it’s gonna grow when water level hits the over flow.

Frogs and tadpole is abundant

I truly have no idea what is causing those boils which is why is suggested for BDB to try and post the video on the forum.

I've never seen similar activity like that from bugs in Western PA, but it could easily be some kind of insect who's population has exploded due to no predators being present in the water.

However, the boils seem pretty big for some kind of insect or mud-dog type creature.

I have seen the activity of bullfrog tadpoles in ponds, but to my recollection, it didn't ever seem like what BDB has going on.

I agree Sunil. And I don't know either. In the pond I did reference in CO, the swirls were bigger and the muddoggies were not minor in length. At least six inches long but the water was murky and it took a while before I got a good enough glimpse to identify. It was constant activity but not as dense as that. The activity is more reminiscent of tadpoles to me.

If not tadpoles which BDBeaux notes as abundant, we have to hold out that the creatures are unknown and I think I would like to know the culprit of that activity if at all possible. Sunil, quick question. If they are fish does this change anything in terms of stocking recs?

BDBeaux, quick question. Would it be difficult to find out what kind of fish, if any, the neighbor has?

I’ll check …….

May be getting some where ……
* Neighbors pond is primarily BG
* Definitely saw a FHM in the same spot I released 2#
* Saw flashes of another “fish” broader body, silver belly, 3”, assuming small BG
* Tadpoles are developing
Ignore my Lab panting

BDBeaux, if by this you mean they are transforming into frogs ... then lungs are developing and the activity may be frog-poles or toad-poles taking breaths of air at the surface. Probably most of the activity is from the tadpoles especially if you view this level of activity whenever go down to observe.

Did the neighbor say what kind of predator fish are in the upstream pond?