Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Is this a RES that has been spawning

Is this a RES?

Does its tail and fins look like that from spawning or could it be a result of my trap.

This one was caught in a Z Trap I put out for YBH that had been out about 4 hours.

I see that gill flap, but I also wonder if it's not a hybrid.

Thanks, I am wondering that myself.

It kind of looks like a male Longear Sunfish. They are native to your area.

Image of Longear


(But I am terrible at sunfish identification. I know none of the "count the rays on this fin" traits that the experts use to distinguish between the species.)

They are native, however before the last stocking on 8/23/24 (Stocking rate below) I had not caught anything but GSF. Me and the grandkids have fished quite a bit.

Here's another one that looks very similar. I'll have to reach out to Hartley's and see if they have those in their lines.

Both fish to me look like HBG. The fish in the first pic is harder to ID because of the poor fin condition. It looks like it was kept in a wire basket for some time, and to me the light margin on the rear of the dorsal fin tells me that the fish is either freshly dead (within the hour) or close to death. The most telling point to me is the orangish/light colored band at the edge of the anal fin.

esshup (and others),

Is mouth size any kind of reliable indicator when comparing sunfish of the same size?

When fishing with kids, and taking fish off and re-baiting hooks very quickly, I wouldn't even have time to examine the fish. However, as they were swinging the fish over to me, my brain would identify if I could easily "lip" the fish and remove the hook (GSF), or it was "look at that tiny mouth, might be tough to get the hook out without hurting the fish" (BG).

I assume hybrids would be intermediate.

In the second picture, the mouth looks too large to be a pure BG or Longear.

(But to reiterate, I am terrible at panfish identification.)

Further, when I was a kid and caught lots of panfish, I do not recall any that I thought were a hybrid. Of course, I didn't even know about hybrids then, so perhaps it was just that humans typically do NOT notice things that they are not specifically looking for?

Looks like a HBG or PS cross with ? .

From a prior thread on lepomis/sunfish id.



Compare Similar Species


Lateral Scales

Bass, Rock 39-43
Bluegill 39-45
Pumpkinseed 38-43
Sunfish, Green 44-51
Sunfish, Longear 34-38
Sunfish, Orangespotted 36-41
Warmouth 36-40

Opercular Flap Color

Bass, Rock Solid dark
Bluegill Solid dark
Pumpkinseed Dark with light spot at tip
Sunfish, Green Dark with light margin
Sunfish, Longear Dark with light margin
Sunfish, Orangespotted Dark with light margin
Warmouth Dark with light margin

Gill Rakers

Bass, Rock 7-10, long and thin
Bluegill 13-16, moderately long
Pumpkinseed 9-12, short and thick
Sunfish, Green 11-14, long and thin
Sunfish, Longear 9-11, short and thick
Sunfish, Orangespotted 10-15, long and thin
Warmouth 9-12, moderately long

Pectoral Fin

Bass, Rock Short, rounded
Bluegill Long, pointed
Pumpkinseed Long, pointed
Sunfish, Green Moderately long, rounded
Sunfish, Longear Short, rounded or blunt point
Sunfish, Orangespotted Long, rounded or blunt point
Warmouth Moderately long, rounded

Pigment Pattern on Sides and Soft Dorsal Fin

Bass, Rock Sides brown solid color or with dark mottling or many indistinct spots; fin mottled and/or spotted
Bluegill Sides dark or silver blue or bluish-olive, solid color or with dark vertical bars, sometimes fine irregular dark blue spots; fin solid, often with large diffuse spot at base
Pumpkinseed Sides olive or yellow-olive, with many irregular yellow-orange spots or blotches and sometimes faint vertical bars; fin solid or faint spots/mottling
Sunfish, Green Sides yellow or blue-green, with solid color, dark mottling, faint light spots or faint dark bars; fin dusky, spotted or with dark blotch at base
Sunfish, Longear Sides dark bluish-olive, with solid color or light irregular spots or blotches/mottling; fin solid or faint spots/mottling
Sunfish, Orangespotted Sides blue or gray, with occasional irregular orange spots, faint diffuse vertical bars; fin solid or faint spots/mottling
Warmouth Sides yellow-brown or olive with dark mottling, faint spots or faint bars; fin mottled and/or spotted

Other Characteristics

Bass, Rock 5-7 anal spines; 9-11 anal rays
Bluegill Opercular flap slightly elongated in large adults
Pumpkinseed None
Sunfish, Green Rarely a few teeth on tongue
Sunfish, Longear Opercular flap greatly elongated in adults
Sunfish, Orangespotted Opercular flap often elongated in adults; large sensory pores above lip; 8-9 anal fin rays
Warmouth Well-developed supramaxillary bone; teeth on tongue

Similarity Index

Bass, Rock Moderately similar
Bluegill N/A
Pumpkinseed Small juveniles very similar, adults moderately similar
Sunfish, Green Small juveniles very similar, adults moderately similar
Sunfish, Longear Small juveniles very similar, adults moderately similar
Sunfish, Orangespotted Small juveniles very similar, adults moderately similar
Warmouth Small juveniles very similar, adults moderately similar


This may help - lepomis id chart

Thanks ewest!

Great chart. I notice that Longears have a "moderate" mouth size.

Did any of our experts in that thread create an extra column with the same distinguishing traits for BG/GSF hybrids? (I believe that is our most common ID question on the forum.)

WiscFish is a great resource on those type issues.

https://www.seagrant.wisc.edu/fish-id/

See BG here. Problem with that database is there are no RES in Wisc.

Click on ip - go down to Bluegill - click and see pics and read. Have BG x GSF and BG x PS pics and data.

https://www.seagrant.wisc.edu/fish-id/#fishMain

Thanks, everyone, great chart and links. I've been scouring the Internet for good information.

I have looked at well over 200 fish from the pond since they were stocked in Aug. I have not seen any that had the pronounced bars on them. The absence of the pointed pectoral fin is also a key indicator. I've took pictures of all of them I thought might be a BG and none of them have the pointed pectoral fin.

I'm wanting to establish a good population of BG for forage and for growing to eat but the absence of seeing any is a bit concerning. I was only supposed to get 50 HBG but them and GSF are the prominent species I see.

Do you have any good places nearby to catch some BG? You should be starting to get into some good fall fishing in your area.

If you bucket stocked 30 BG (one fair fishing day) into your pond before the bass got big, that might get BG going in your pond.

IMO, if you do get BG established in your pond, they will outbreed the GSF and the HBG.

I do, but per Bob's recommendation I just had about 120 4-6" BG, 30 RES from Hartley's fish farm about 50 mile North of me stocked in August. I added 50 HBG. Was hoping for a fall BG spawn. Water temps are still in the lower 80's here.

I've caught 5 of the LMB that were stocked in June of 2023 and they are at 1 3/4 to 2#, 102 - 120% RW. Up until the recent stocking I had only caught GSF I suspect the GSF and YBH that washed in before we stocked the BG and CC got ate. Stocking of CC, BG and LMB were free from the state. Dates/rates in my signature.

From what I've read on the forum and heard on Bob's Podcasts and FB live, the GSF will get diminished by the other populations of fish at those stocking rates.

I agree that BG need to get established to out compete the GSF, that's my concern with not seeing any yet. I was thinking maybe Hartley's BG just look different but not finding anything to support that thought. Bill Hartley told me the HBG were a BG/GSF cross.

Caught this one in a trap today. Looks like a BG to me but I will rely on the experts to confirm.

Might be kind of hard to tell from the picture but the pectoral fin is pointed.

Thinking they are just a bit smaller than the HBG thus the reason I'm not catching any.

Thanks to all for the feedback it has been very helpful for positive identification. The previous reply's have been extremely helpful.

As mentioned this is the second stocking of BG to establish a good population of BG and probably just having a panic attack that the second stocking has been devoured by my LMB or GSF like the first stocking before discovering PB.

That does look like a standard bluegill. Perhaps a chance of being a coppernose bluegill just considering the geographic area that you bought it, but maybe not.

Thanks for the confirmation and all the other information everyone provided, very helpful for us rookies.

I also suspect that since my water color is stained they don't have as much color as most pictures I see. Visibility with a Secchi disk is only about 12". I think the CC and BH are keeping it stirred up. It's also about 2.5 ft low due to the lack of rain and only about 6' at the deepest part of the pond.

Mouth gape is the last thing I look at, if you'd just go by that, then this one that I can lip with my thumb would be a HBG then?



ROFL

Yep, Straight Northern BG, my WAG from seeing 100's of 1,000's of them is female to boot.

esshup,

That mouth looks tiny to me ... for the size of the BG.

A GSF of similar weight would have a giant mouth.

I have handled very few (perhaps zero?) HBG, so I just don't know about their mouth size.

However, if you say "mouth size" is the last thing you look at, then that is good enough for me to NOT use that indicator. Step One on Pond Boss is to listen to the people that do it for a living or have been doing it their whole life!

Mouth gape is still a good tell relative to the overall body size.

Esshup, thank you for all the invaluable information. Trap was pulled after using a couple more times. Only caught 2 YBH and honestly believe, as you stated, that it was the cause of the poor fin condition. It was alive and swam off when released.

Going to target YBH by fishing since they are unusually what we catch when fishing for CC and let the LMB do the rest.

And jaw hinge location is another sign.