Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Creating habitat Locust Trees

I recently cut down a couple locust trees on my property and I was thinking of sinking them in my pond for habitat as I've heard they are rot resistant. However, they are thorny and I'm wondering if the thorns could harm the fish, like maybe if being chased around by predator fish and getting injured. Any thoughts?

I also battle honey locust trees on my property! (Make sure you poison the stumps correctly, or you will get massive resprouts, and perhaps some root nodes away from the stumps that also pop up new trees.)

I have not put any branches in my ponds, just because they are a pain to transport. I try to burn them in place.

I believe one member did put some in his shallow water to provide refuge for his forage fish. He did not ever report any problems with that.

I think your fish should be fine with those evil looking thorns in the pond. If you make the cover pretty dense, it should be good for your small forage fish. Maybe a predator fish might get stabbed if he makes a mad charge into the cover trying to catch a meal, but I can't imagine that would happen often.

Do you have a weed burner? If not, they are pretty cheap. You might try making a few quick passes over your thorns when your locust are freshly cut. I think you may "wilt" the sharp tips if they are mostly green. (The hardened ones might be unaffected, or need extra fire time if they are drying out.) That may make the wood easier to move for you.

Are you moving by hand, or with grapple and skidsteer? If moving by tractor and FEL, be VERY protective of your tires!

I treated the stumps and surrounding area with Tordon. Used my tractor FEL to push them over with the bucket and then cut them off close to the ground - this kept the thorns away from me - then moved them with a grapple bucket. Luckily no tire damage. I do have a weed burner and will give that a try. I learned the hard way there are little thorns on the bark.

I use cedars exclusively. Never oaks due to tanins. I killed off all of my first stockings of minnows and bluegills due to tanins in oaks.

Test the trees you want to use. Slice off some of it and put it in a bucket or barrel of the pond water. Wait about a week and see if the water changes color. Then toss in some minnows and see if the water is still good.

The active ingredient in Tordon is picloram. I have cut some very large ones that I had 100% kill success using Pathway (picloram plus 2,4-D). I think your Tordon should kill them if you applied it shortly after cutting. I did NOT have a 100% kill rate using Remedy Ultra (triclopyr) and diesel. However, I do have good success with that combination for basal stem treatments on smaller Honey Locust trees when the bark is still smooth.

Picloram is a systemic herbicide, so do not let it get into your waterways and run into your pond.

I am pretty sure that after God created the Earth, the Devil snuck in behind him and created Honey Locust trees.

Locust??? Kill them. Kill them with no remorse. Kill the with fire and brimstone. Nuke them. Kill them! I don't like honey locust. Kill them and send them to hell. Don't be shy about it. Attack with everything you have, then ask the military for more firepower. Kill... kill...KILL!

Note to self - do not get on catscratch's "naughty list"!

I have used the very thorny branches of honey locust to protect newly planted emergent plants and water lillies with good success. They rot away in a few years unlike the rot-resistant black locust.

Fairly difficult to get on my bad side, I'm a pretty understanding dude. But... honey locust has done me wrong more than a few times. It's now a war.

Leaving the cut portions of the thorny locust on land for 6 months significantly reduces the sharp points of the thorns and I'd say they would make good cover in a pond. The best tree for cover is the next nemesis thorny tree and that's Osage Orange. That stuff will last for years and years submerged in a pond.

The trees I cut down are not close to the pond. I originally sprayed the leaves with a strong mixture of Diquat and Roundup. They all turned brown and fell off, then not long after they all came back nice and green. Could not believe how tough they are.

The best way I have found to kill honey locust is to girdle them by cutting through the sap wood all around. Once they die completely, they can be cut down. This seems to prevent the suckering you get when they are cut down live.

Agreed!

I used to use this method before I started getting powerful herbicides from the county guys. However, it is difficult for me to girdle many of my mature Honey Locust trees because the droopy branches are also viscious.

RAH (and others),

Do you know WHY girdling works to prevent suckering and adjacent pop up trees from the root nodes?

With the heartwood still in place, do the roots keep wasting energy trying to send sugars up the phloem layer to the girdle? And this process is what robs the tree of the ability to sucker or spread?

I have never observed evidence of a liquid ring around my girdled Honey Locust. I do also clear a lot of Siberian Elms (piss elms). They run watery sap when cut, and I frequently see evidence the next spring of liquid transport from the roots. Those elms also like to sucker off of the stumps of felled trees.

(Just trying to learn more, because I too hate Honey Locust trees.)

We have thornless honey locust that we planted >30 years ago and the seed pods are great wildlife food. I leave the seedlings nearby if they don't have thorns (seedings are >95% thornless)..

My neighbors (in the city) have a nice thornless Honey Locust right beside my driveway. My kids used to take the hard seeds to school to give "worry stones" to their friends before fidget spinners were invented!

My deer also like to eat the seed ponds, especially when they are sweet. I assume I have lots of other wildlife that munches on them too.

The Honey Locust trees are also the favorites on my farm for deer rubs when they are about 4" in diameter. At that size, the bark is very smooth and the deer seem to love them. Sometimes when I go to clear older HL trees, I can see the healed damage on the trunk where it had been a "deer rub" tree 10-20 years earlier.

I would gladly make a deal with my deer that they can eat all of the HL pods they want, as long as they girdle and kill all of the subsequent trees by performing a 360 degree rub.

FR, girdling works because it cuts of the conduit of nutrients to the roots. So water and nutrients are able to flow freely up to the branches and leaves through the sapwood but the sugars produced in the leaves must be transported through a layer lying outside of the sapwood. There upper parts of the tree gets what it needs and the roots supply it (cooperating so to speak to get a reward of energy). But this depletes the energy in the roots needed to maintain the roots. Without a conduit back to the roots, the roots starve. When a tree top is cut completely off both pathways are cut. The absence of transpiration of the missing top of the tree triggers the roots to send suckers. So girdling is a tricky way to fool the roots that everything is OK even while they are starving.

Don't mix herbicides with different modes of killing the plants together. As you have seen, that doesn't work. Diquat is a contact, glyphosate is a systemic. Diquat killed the green leaves before the plant had time to absorb the systemic.

As esshup suggested, only mix herbicides that are recommended as mixures for the purpose at hand. For example, 2,4-D and glyphosate are a common recommended mix because they have different but compatable modes of killing the plant.