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#567914 06/14/24 07:48 PM
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The chart has some holes in it,

Just caught a 12.5” HSB, weighed exactly 1 lb, scale was tipping from .99 -1.01
What’s the RW.

Also a LMB 9” @ .48lb

Last edited by Jason D; 06/14/24 08:04 PM.
Jason D #567916 06/14/24 08:16 PM
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12.5" HSB of 1.0 lb = RW of 100
9" LMB of 0.48 lb = RW of 133


aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Bill Cody #567918 06/14/24 08:27 PM
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Thank you, also caught a couple SMB that are similar in size but don’t want to stress them. I will have to get a
Length and weight in my CC. They also look like footballs

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Jason D #567921 06/14/24 09:10 PM
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Nice, Jason!

Are you supplemental feeding? CC are very efficient at putting on weight if they are hoovering up some of the feed!

Jason D #568509 07/07/24 10:08 PM
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Going to bring this back up,
Every 2-3 weeks I throw a line in and catch a few fish only to sample growth
Even though all of my fish seem to be growing at an alarming rate the RW of different species has me confused
All SMB and LMB have been 120 - 130 % RW since I started catching them 3 months ago
I have not caught a HSB over 105%
The sampling is 6 fish per species .
Do HSB not balloon up like the large and smallmouth or am I missing something here
The fish are supplementary fed and it seems like the HSB sit at the feeder and boil the water (jump out of the water) when the feeder goes off

Last edited by Jason D; 07/07/24 10:17 PM.
Jason D #568518 07/08/24 07:24 AM
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Thoughts may be changing about how much other fish HSB eat. Of course, we've all caught them on live minnow/shiners, and we've seen them balling up bait, but we also know that their mouths do not get as big as LMB and SMB.

I think Augie has said that when he cleans his HSB for eating, he only sees feed and crayfish in them, but not other small fish.

So, your HSB may be more keyed up on feed and less on live fish than the LMB/SMB.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

Sunil #568522 07/08/24 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Sunil
Thoughts may be changing about how much other fish HSB eat. Of course, we've all caught them on live minnow/shiners, and we've seen them balling up bait, but we also know that their mouths do not get as big as LMB and SMB.

I think Augie has said that when he cleans his HSB for eating, he only sees feed and crayfish in them, but not other small fish.

So, your HSB may be more keyed up on feed and less on live fish than the LMB/SMB.

This is good information, They definitely have all the minnows, shiners, crayfish and frogs they can handle but they are eating the feed as fast as the machine will throw it
The pond is lightly stocked with my predators and they act like they are starving when the feeder goes off.
I have been told to feed as much as they will consume in 5 minutes
I play around with the feed timer all the time, They will clean up 10 seconds on the Texas hunter feeder in a minute, I will throw out 10 more seconds and they clean it up just as fast
I will throw out another 10 seconds and they will consume that in 2-3 minutes.
My feeder on the other side of the pond goes off an hour later and they are over there eating it up just as fast

Jason D #568523 07/08/24 09:09 AM
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What feed are you using? Any chance there are dietary requirements?

On the other side....it's a great problem to have that you are trying to push HSB beyond 105% RW with your SMB/LMB exceeding 120%. Lots of pond owners would love to be in your shoes! Pat yourself on the back for a successful plan imo.


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Originally Posted by Boondoggle
What feed are you using? Any chance there are dietary requirements?

On the other side....it's a great problem to have that you are trying to push HSB beyond 105% RW with your SMB/LMB exceeding 120%. Lots of pond owners would love to be in your shoes! Pat yourself on the back for a successful plan imo.

Don't get me wrong, I'm happy as could be with the way things are going, All the fish, minus the HSB look like they are going to explode.
I like to learn and ask questions. I'm sure my Management person is tired of hearing from me LOL

I am mixing 2 different foods.
Aquamax MVP with a food from Skretting USA. When I'm around during feeding time (almost every night) I throw a 3rd food that is bigger than the Feeder can throw

3 fish I caught this weekend

HSB - 14" - 1.48lb
LMB - 10.5" - .78lb
SMB - 9.25" - .52lb

These are typical numbers, Give or take a little
This pond was stocked in September of 23' with fingerling LMB, 4" SMB and 6" HSB, So everything is still new,

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Sunil #568529 07/08/24 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Sunil
I think Augie has said that when he cleans his HSB for eating, he only sees feed and crayfish in them, but not other small fish.


Indeed that is what I've observed. It's a small sample size, but data is data.


Length Weight Standard W Relative W Date
11.50 0.84 0.76 110.84% 6/4/2021 released
9.50 0.44 0.42 104.69% 6/4/2021 released
19.50 4.43 3.99 110.91% 10/1/2022 harvested
19.75 4.66 4.16 112.16% 10/1/2022 harvested
19.75 4.67 4.16 112.22% 11/4/2022 harvested
19.75 4.56 4.16 109.69% 4/26/2023 harvested
19.75 4.70 4.16 113.06% 4/27/2023 harvested
20.50 4.46 4.67 95.44% 7/25/2023 harvested
19.50 3.70 3.99 92.64% 7/25/2023 harvested
20.00 3.80 4.32 87.87% 2/20/2024 harvested
20.00 4.00 4.32 92.50% 3/10/2024 harvested
21.00 4.70 5.04 93.25% 3/10/2024 harvested
22.00 4.80 5.83 82.30% 4/6/2024 harvested
21.00 3.80 5.04 75.39% 4/6/2024 harvested

Jason D #568531 07/08/24 03:32 PM
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Curious....Why the mix of MVP and Skretting? I'm familiar with both brand names but not really the formulations of either. Was there something you were looking for in Skretting that MVP didn't offer (size or formula)?


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Originally Posted by Boondoggle
Curious....Why the mix of MVP and Skretting? I'm familiar with both brand names but not really the formulations of either. Was there something you were looking for in Skretting that MVP didn't offer (size or formula)?

Skreeting- what I originally got, Higher Protein, larger pellets, only floating. My forage wouldn’t really eat it
MVP - floating and sinking, varied pellet size, more diverse for all fish
Haven’t dug deep into ingredients of either but it must be working 😂😉


3 months ago I didn’t think any of my fish would eat pellets, today it’s like shark infested waters up to 30 minutes before the feeder goes off.

From what I have gathered through the comments is that I need to throw more large stuff to bulk up the HSB.
GGGRRRR, those silly fish prefer to eat 50+ ft from the shore

Jason D #568536 07/08/24 06:48 PM
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It really is amazing how fish change on the feeding once they get it figured out or maybe it's once us rookie pond managers (speaking of myself here) get them the food at the right time and place. We had a very similar experience at our pond this year with the BG and really stacking up just ahead of the feeder going off. One of our next pond projects at the farm is to put in a dock which will allow the feeder to be moved so that we can feed further from the shore / deeper water.

Thanks for the info on Skretting. I looked at a few choices on fish food and ended up going with a different brand. I hadn't considered mixing two different brands of food. Sounds like it's working for you.


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Jason D #568537 07/08/24 07:38 PM
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None of my direct pond managing experience has involved using feeders; it's all been hand feeding. The fish do gather up when they hear my mule pull up and then they follow me to the feed spot, totally conditioned.

Now, I have fished Richmond Mills Lake, and like you said, it's shark-fest before the feeders go off. Violent.

I'm feeding three sizes of feed all from Optimal. Bluegill which are multi-shaped, Bass, and Hand Throw. I've also got some starter that I need to incorporate, so that'll be four sizes of feed.

Regardless of your feed brand, I think using the different sizes become important to get feed to the right mouths.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Originally Posted by Boondoggle
It really is amazing how fish change on the feeding once they get it figured out or maybe it's once us rookie pond managers (speaking of myself here) get them the food at the right time and place. We had a very similar experience at our pond this year with the BG and really stacking up just ahead of the feeder going off. One of our next pond projects at the farm is to put in a dock which will allow the feeder to be moved so that we can feed further from the shore / deeper water.

Thanks for the info on Skretting. I looked at a few choices on fish food and ended up going with a different brand. I hadn't considered mixing two different brands of food. Sounds like it's working for you.

I am very much a rookie, 15 months ago I was within a week of putting $8000 worth of fish in a 5 acre mud puddle that was behind the house I just bought. With sheer luck Bob returned my call and got me in touch with an amazing old man that lived closer to me, 5 days later the pond was Rotenoned instead of stocked with fish

Our feeder sits 36’ out in to the water

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Jason D #568552 07/09/24 01:01 PM
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Guys - RW are generally developed (data used for RW platform) for wild fish (not fed pellets). So add that to the mix when assessing your fish. That is important for HSB because, unlike other pond predator fish, HSB can metabolize the carbs in fish food. HSB can become morbidly obese from carbs in pelleted fish food. A good example is the HSB in some of the Bass Pro aquariums. Their biologist noted this some years back and verified that was the issue.
















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Originally Posted by ewest
Guys - RW are generally developed (data used for RW platform) for wild fish (not fed pellets). So add that to the mix when assessing your fish. That is important for HSB because, unlike other pond predator fish, HSB can metabolize the carbs in fish food. HSB can become morbidly obese from carbs in pelleted fish food. A good example is the HSB in some of the Bass Pro aquariums. Their biologist noted this some years back and verified that was the issue.

Great information, I guess its a good thing the HSB in my pond aren't overly obese.
Maybe i'm wrong but I don't think the SMB and LMB in my pond are eating many, if any of the pellets,
I observe them hanging out around the edges picking off minnows as they eat the dust.

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I've never observed one fish getting eaten by another when hitting feed, and it makes me sad because everyone talks about it!

I also never new what ewest posted about the HSB processing the carbs.

I think if you want some diversity in species, and are on a feed program, you've got to keep the amount of HSB down so your other desired fish can access the feed.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Sunil #568575 07/09/24 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Sunil
I've never observed one fish getting eaten by another when hitting feed, and it makes me sad because everyone talks about it!

I also never new what ewest posted about the HSB processing the carbs.

I think if you want some diversity in species, and are on a feed program, you've got to keep the amount of HSB down so your other desired fish can access the feed.

Obviously my Bass are still babies and can’t eat the BG yet but the moment you see a bass come out of nowhere and hit a school of feeding minnows it looks likes fireworks going off, minnows fly everywhere, they have even landed on my dock.
The BG just feed with no worries
I was under the impression HSB wouldn’t reproduce in a pond ? My predator count is very low compared to the pond size

Jason D #568577 07/09/24 10:06 PM
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Jason, yes, the HSB are not supposed to be able to spawn. I meant to keep HSB stocking numbers lower if you have other desired fish that you want to grow on feed.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

Jason D #568583 07/10/24 08:30 AM
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Curious....are HSB still sexable? Is there any difference in the growth rate of either sex? Didn't know if they had a sex but were sterile.


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Jason D #568587 07/10/24 12:17 PM
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Jason just a thought. IIRC , one of the Pro's recommended that multiple feeders all time together, otherwise you may be feeding the most aggressive little pigs twice an hour apart, and others that others which could feed train , can't get to the second feeder . I've seen several videos of fish vomiting feed, huge swollen belly's, wonder if in fish world you could have gorging and purging to simply keep the feed for themselves, seen it with my dogs, 1 pup in a litter eating all the feed , all the time growling at other pups , it's tummy swollen horribly and then unable to move and if it tried to engage in any activity, vomit. Myself, I would have feeders all throw same time.But will listen to those with fish experience, rather than a couple of liters of pups. Dachshunds. Just rambling thoughts.


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HSB are not sterile but reproduction is highly unlikely in ponds. Dave Willis explained this on a thread :

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...=true#Post15285

I couldn't get that link to work...

Could any of the RW weight be attributed to male vs female? One sex is larger, like we see with BG or LMB, than the other and this is part of what Jason D is seeing as "Low RW at 105%" vs his LMB and SMB at 120%+?


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