Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Duckster, Marell, DeeDee, Dominic Greco, DannyP
18,624 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics41,179
Posts560,266
Members18,625
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,775
ewest 21,558
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,230
Who's Online Now
5 members (Pondside, jpsdad, FishinRod, catscratch, Stressless), 855 guests, and 152 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 67
Likes: 18
T
OP Offline
T
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 67
Likes: 18
So it looks like my dam blowout didn't cause a major loss of pumpkinseeds. I put about 4000 in my 6 acre pond last August, of all sizes and after my dam blow out I noticed lots of 1 inch or smaller that survived as well as some big ones. Over that last month I've snorkelled the repaired lake and found lots of active nests and now I have probably 10s of thousands of these little fellas. Some are just hatched and I also have zillions of 3 to 4 inches. I suspect I better get some LMB in there, would I start with fingerlings or fry or put a few larger ones in? I've noticed that these are growing very fast now.

These are stills from video, I'll post the video tomorrow night...it's pretty insane lol.

Attached Images
Screenshot_20240624_220211_XPlayer - Video Player.jpg Screenshot_20240624_220346_XPlayer - Video Player.jpg Screenshot_20240624_220524_XPlayer - Video Player.jpg Screenshot_20240624_215833_XPlayer - Video Player.jpg Screenshot_20240624_205800_Video Player.jpg Screenshot_20240624_204920_Video Player.jpg Screenshot_20240624_204129_Video Player.jpg Screenshot_20240624_204113_Video Player.jpg
Last edited by Tinylake; 06/24/24 09:32 PM.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,775
Likes: 910
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,775
Likes: 910
Don't stock adult LMB,3"-5" would be plenty. What are your goals for the pond? That will determine how many to stock.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
1 member likes this: Tinylake
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 67
Likes: 18
T
OP Offline
T
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 67
Likes: 18
My goals are a bit of diversity and we eat most of them. I have about 1200 trout in there that we are catching and eating often, the bald eagles like them too, when they are gone I might only restock with about 30 2 to 3 pounders . I'd like to grow some large mouth bass as well as they are fun to catch. In the future I'd like to put 100 or so walleye in it if I can find them.

Thanks for your help!

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,862
Likes: 328
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 13,862
Likes: 328
Great pictures!!


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

1 member likes this: Tinylake
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 14,094
Likes: 322
Moderator
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Lunker
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 14,094
Likes: 322
No love for Smallmouth? frown


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
[Linked Image from i.pinimg.com]
2 members like this: Tinylake, jludwig
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,558
Likes: 291
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,558
Likes: 291
Are you sure all of those are PS ?

I would go with SMB and not LMB if they are all PS.
















2 members like this: Tinylake, jludwig
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 67
Likes: 18
T
OP Offline
T
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 67
Likes: 18
Pretty sure they are all PS.

Why SMB over LMB?

Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 329
Likes: 77
B
Offline
B
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 329
Likes: 77
I think, and I hope somebody corrects me if I'm wrong, but it relates to ultimate size of the fish PS at 7-9" vs BG at 10-12" and recruitment with PS laying up to 14,000 eggs per season and BG laying up to 60,000 eggs per season. Those numbers vary a little bit on the web from what I could see. Larger fish spawn greater amounts.

In the case of SMB with a smaller gape more of the PS will survive and ultimately recruit.
In the case of LMB with a larger gape less of the PS will survive and ultimately recruit.

Couple that with fewer eggs per season PS compared to BG and you could end up with a shortage in the forage base.

Just me guessing though....hopefully one of the pros will chime in.


Pumpkinseed Eggs per Season

Bluegill Eggs per season


-------------------------------------------------------
Exactly

Last edited by ewest; 06/26/24 04:22 PM.

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
2 members like this: ewest, Tinylake
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 67
Likes: 18
T
OP Offline
T
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 67
Likes: 18
OK yes I see, and wondered about that, I also wondered about the effect of the PS on LMB and SMB eggs when they spawn - I hear the PS are pretty notorious nest robbers. I can introduce Bluegill as well if needed.

My question is about when they start to hybrid, will my lake just eventually be full of hybrids? Do they grow as big or stunt? I can manage LMB numbers by fishing with no problem but as you point out I dont want to run out of forage. I can put either SMB or LMB in - I have access to both.

Thanks!

Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 67
Likes: 18
T
OP Offline
T
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 67
Likes: 18
Here is a video of some of the action...this is from one small area of the lake, it's like this all over...I'm blown away how fast they blew up.

Video is uploading might take a few mins.

Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 329
Likes: 77
B
Offline
B
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 329
Likes: 77
Very nice vid of the fish. I have no idea on the cross or how frequently is would occur but I did google an image to see what they look like.

I mean....how can you go wrong with glow in the dark fish?

Attached Images
Punkingill.jpg

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
2 members like this: Dave Davidson1, Tinylake
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 67
Likes: 18
T
OP Offline
T
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 67
Likes: 18
Lol so cool!

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,699
Likes: 656
F
Lunker
Online Content
Lunker
F
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,699
Likes: 656
Originally Posted by Boondoggle
Very nice vid of the fish. I have no idea on the cross or how frequently is would occur but I did google an image to see what they look like.

I mean....how can you go wrong with glow in the dark fish?

I have seen people start their ponds with Rosy Red fathead minnows so they will be easier for the newly stocked predators to find.

Can you imagine being a hungry, growing SMB or LMB in a lake chock full of glow-in-the-dark Pumpkinseeds? The bass must think they are in fish heaven!

1 member likes this: Tinylake
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 329
Likes: 77
B
Offline
B
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 329
Likes: 77
That was the reason we put rosy reds in Rod. The water was stained and the reds are much easier to see (at least with my eyes). Not sure if the predators can see any difference.

There were lots of variations in the colors of the punkingils but that one caught me eye for sure.

One other thing I didn't mention above TinyLake. I'd guess your geographic location may play into spawning some too. Those links I posted may not be accurate for your area. Just more food for thought...


I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
1 member likes this: Tinylake
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,558
Likes: 291
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,558
Likes: 291
Originally Posted by Tinylake
Pretty sure they are all PS.

Why SMB over LMB?


See Boondoggle's post earlier in the thread.
















1 member likes this: Tinylake
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 67
Likes: 18
T
OP Offline
T
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 67
Likes: 18
Ok I can put bluegill in as well as I'd like LMB.

Any idea on the numbers I can stick based on the trour I have in there now and what I'd like to put in?

We are keeping most of the trout we catch like I said and I suspect the fingerling brookies will get gobbled up by the bass in short order.

Also, this might sound weird but do 6 acre ponds develop fish slime on the surface if there are lots of fish in it? When the fish farm put the trout in a big garbage can while weighing the water quickly turned to fish a mess of fish slime it was pretty nuts, it might be my imagination but the surface of the lake seems a little slimy..also smelled a bit like fish a couple of weeks ago but thr rain has fixed that.

I check DO and at surface over 14ppm, 4 feet down 7ppm, 13 feet right at bottom 3ppm no aeration. I'll check ph later today.
Cheers

Last edited by Tinylake; 06/27/24 07:43 AM.
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 329
Likes: 77
B
Offline
B
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 329
Likes: 77
Seemed as though one of my limiting factors I faced when trying to stock our new pond was fish availability. After watching all of the vids on youtube, reading posts here on the forum and talking with fish hatcheries our plan had to be modified a bit to fit with what was available. I really wanted to stock some 4-6" BG in a limited quantity to jump start the spawning along with the larger quantity of smaller fish.. Managed to find a very select few 4-5" with a majority of the fish in the 3+" range. I didn't want to bucket stock from the local lakes as it seems almost every lake in KS is a zerba muscle breeding ground and I really don't want that in the pond.

My gut tells me you will need to stock some fish that are large enough that the Rainbows can't eat them or you are stocking a quantity that is big enough on small fish to give them a good chance to grow a bit knowing that some will be forage and some will recruit. The good news is that it sounds like you already have PS in the water and the PS have pulled off a spawn. I have a number in mind, but given my lack of experience with your region and experience in pond management overall I would defer to one of the our pros for sure.

Never heard of a fish slime on the water. I did recently see a skim coat of algae (could have been pollen) on ours but it didn't smell like fish. Much like yours, it was there for a day or two and them gone after a little wind and rain.

Looking forward to following along as more people provide some info or ask questions.


I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
1 member likes this: Tinylake
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 67
Likes: 18
T
OP Offline
T
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 67
Likes: 18
Ok just to back track a bit, the stocking of PS that I did last year was about 4000, maybe closer to 6000 ranging in size from 1 inch to 9 inches. The average would have been about 4 to 6 inch and they had a spawn just after I put them in..those are the ones I see growing quickly from about 2 to 3 inches now. There were no predators in there until I put the rainbows in and they don't seem to go after fish until about 16 inches long and I'd only have about 30 to 40 in that range if I remember correctly. The entire shoreline is a fast highway of sunfish now with no way to know how many but thousands doesn't do it justice...might be hundreds of thousands it seems.

I do have the ability to put mature bluegill in here this week and might even get a spawn out of them...not sure but if I do ill need predators to start knocking these down....atheist I think I do lol.

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,558
Likes: 291
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,558
Likes: 291
You should not have a problem with forage for LMB right now. It is 2-3 years down the road that a problem might arise. With that many PS the BG may not spawn successfully this summer. I would look to adding adult BG early next spring. You could add adult BG now but they may not spawn this summer. Both BG and PS are known to stunt and cross. I would not suggest stocking yoy 2inch LMB into a pond with that many PS and RT. Look for some 6 inch LMB this fall (early) but no more than 10 per acre to start.
















1 member likes this: Tinylake
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,125
Likes: 293
D
Moderator
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Lunker
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,125
Likes: 293
Lusk said it best. Only bluegills can spawn enough to feed bass and only bass can keep up with the never ending bluegill spawns.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
1 member likes this: Tinylake
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 67
Likes: 18
T
OP Offline
T
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 67
Likes: 18
Makes sense. I have a question though, a lake near us has only PS, LMB, SMB, rock bass and some pike, no bluegill. Ive been fishing that lake for almost 40 years and the bass and PS fishing has always been outstanding. A week or so ago we saw schools of a dozen or more 1s, 2s, 3 pounders cruising the shorelines. I guess a lake ecosystem differs from a 6 acre lake but the fact remains that the PS population still supports some amazing bass fishing - not hard to catch 5 and 6 pounders which is rare for this area. How does this happen without the spawn crazy BG?

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,699
Likes: 656
F
Lunker
Online Content
Lunker
F
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,699
Likes: 656
Crazy amounts of spawning certainly helps create a productive forage base. However, there are many other important factors.

6# LMB in Ontario are not eating PS fingerlings, they are eating very large PS. Your good bass lake almost certainly has very favorable conditions to raise large PS.

Also, how big are the biggest rock bass? I have fished with kids in Ontario and caught a rock bass every cast that would certainly be an excellent meal for at least a medium-sized bass ... and a meal for the next day ... and a meal for the next day.

Finally, you did not list yellow perch in the lake population. If that lake does have them, a long (fusiform) YP is a lot of calories that are easily swallowed by a big bass.

2 members like this: 4CornersPuddle, Tinylake
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 329
Likes: 77
B
Offline
B
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 329
Likes: 77
Hmmm...Might need some additional input data. What are the chances you could get some length and weight data of the fish to see RW of the fish. I'm going to guess that there could also be some regional growing season differences that could apply here too as you pond will differ from anything in more southern waters. That's a 100% guess from me though based off of comments that I've seen from people being cautious applying the same principals from the southern zips to mid-west or more northern zips.


I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
1 member likes this: Tinylake
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 67
Likes: 18
T
OP Offline
T
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 67
Likes: 18
Originally Posted by FishinRod
Crazy amounts of spawning certainly helps create a productive forage base. However, there are many other important factors.

6# LMB in Ontario are not eating PS fingerlings, they are eating very large PS. Your good bass lake almost certainly has very favorable conditions to raise large PS.

Also, how big are the biggest rock bass? I have fished with kids in Ontario and caught a rock bass every cast that would certainly be an excellent meal for at least a medium-sized bass ... and a meal for the next day ... and a meal for the next day.

Finally, you did not list yellow perch in the lake population. If that lake does have them, a long (fusiform) YP is a lot of calories that are easily swallowed by a big bass.


Thanks for the info, the bass lake is relatively small and Ive fished all of it many times - shoreline and deeper water. Only a few spots with rockbass about 7 inches max size i've seen. I forgot about the perch - max size is about 5 inches but most likely bigger exist of course.

The PS max size ive seen is just over 9 inches - they get pretty chunky.

Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 67
Likes: 18
T
OP Offline
T
Joined: Aug 2023
Posts: 67
Likes: 18
Originally Posted by Boondoggle
Hmmm...Might need some additional input data. What are the chances you could get some length and weight data of the fish to see RW of the fish. I'm going to guess that there could also be some regional growing season differences that could apply here too as you pond will differ from anything in more southern waters. That's a 100% guess from me though based off of comments that I've seen from people being cautious applying the same principals from the southern zips to mid-west or more northern zips.

I can try to get some RW data over the next few weeks - everything I catch seems to be well fed....oh and there are zebra mussels so I'm wondering if the PS eat those? Not hard to catch a 9 inch PS which is pretty fun.

Not sure about the spawning habits in the lake - I know they just went through a spawn, not sure if they spawn again in the summer or not, I do know that in my small lake they spawned some time after august of last year when they were introduced.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
FireIsHot, smullins94
Recent Posts
Optimal vs. Purina
by jpsdad - 07/21/24 05:28 PM
Reward's Diquat
by Pondside - 07/21/24 05:02 PM
Small LMB Gape and Proper forage size
by jpsdad - 07/21/24 04:14 PM
Cold or warm water pond in mid Michigan
by Bill Cody - 07/21/24 03:24 PM
Using A Well
by Bobbss - 07/21/24 03:08 PM
Dock.
by Stressless - 07/21/24 02:55 PM
Fish kill - help
by Boondoggle - 07/21/24 12:27 PM
Hybrid Stripers vs. White Crappie
by Boondoggle - 07/21/24 10:14 AM
How to remove brown film/scum on 1 acre pond?
by esshup - 07/21/24 12:07 AM
Say hello to my little friend
by Pat Williamson - 07/20/24 04:13 PM
Electrofishing service - Wichita, KS
by blavis - 07/20/24 02:11 PM
Omaha's a birthday boy
by Dave Davidson1 - 07/20/24 01:58 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Major change since 2009
Major change since 2009
by SENKOSAM, July 3
Fishing with my Best Buddy
Fishing with my Best Buddy
by Theo Gallus, June 29
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5