Pond Boss Forums AQUATIC VEGETATION Balance of plants in the environment Iris vs Pickerel

Have a 1/2 acre (.41) pond that has a retaining wall and river rock border. More of a formal/manicured look. Been trying to build & increase structure/habitat and increase the overall "ecosystem". (Have done several homemade artificial structure, just feel there's a lack of habitat for fry.) There is no vegetation due to too many Amur from previous owner(s). Under the wall is rip-rap. Appropriately steep edges all the way around down to a consistently flat 7.5-8' depth.

Have tried water lilies without success. Assumed due to the Amur, but caged them in chicken wire, no luck, and then tried another time with snow fence securing a corner with no chance of Amur getting to them. Still no luck. They grow but then something starts cutting the pads off. No turtles. Only thing I can think of is I did have a few Muscovy Ducks. I don't have them anymore so going to try one more time this year in the fenced area and see how it goes with larger plants to start. But just in case and as a backup..

Brings me to my question... I'd like to get some sort of bog or submerged plant going in the back left and right corner of the picture. Something that will be more likely to establish and less likely to be effected by Amur. However, it needs to have a bit of a "clean" appearance to fit in opposed to some some of the other "weedy" looking options. I THINK I've narrowed it down to Iris Versicolor (likely the new "Purple Flame" variety introduced in 2020) or Pickerel Weed/Rush.

Thoughts? Opinions? Differences? Pros? Cons? Etc...

NE Ohio

Pretty place. I wonder if you might have crawfish in the pond sneaking in and hitting the new plants. I've heard from several people that they can make it tough to get plants established. If it is crawfish.....1/4" mech cages should be helpful along with setting some traps to slow them down.

On my end I am using (or at least trying to use) both pickerelweed and Iris. You might check the depth of the planting for each of these. I thought that Pickerelweed was able to get out to 12-18" depths and Iris was a bit shallower. Might also be a PH difference for soil type requirement between the two.

Goodluck on the project.

Also consider variegated sweet flag. I have quite bit available for you to try and get it started. It will grow hydroponically in the rock/stones around in the stone ledge. Iris and pickerel weed are good.

I love the Irises, pickerel weed, and variegated sweet flag, as well Lizard's tail! Bill gave me starts of irises, variegated sweet flag, and Lizard's tail last year and they are doing very well! I ordered 25 young pickerel weed plants off etsy last year for around $25 total and they are doing great as well, looking real healthy coming up this year. I have also gotten some Marsh marigold I need to get planted this year and see how it does.

Both Iris versicolor and pickerel are about as good as it gets when establishing pond plants.

Triumphing through adversity, the aquatic iris have no problem coping with whatever the worst weather can do. Extreme heat, cold, Days of storms, torrential rain, hail, no problem... They reach for the sky!


The iris has a deer resistant sap, while the pickerel is very popular with pollinators

Andrew, it's good to see you back here!!

Thank you for your kindness

Blue flag Louisiana iris are about bullet proof, but they will spread and are hard to contain. Pickerel will produce seed and establish from seed anywhere they can. I consider that a good thing. You may not. For water lilies, try the common white Nymphaea odorata. I have fought trying to establish a number of lilies, but the common white one is finally taking off. Again, they will spread to 4-6 feet of water.

I agree with RossC that all of these may spread and will need attention paid to unwanted volunteers. In our pond, Pickerel and N. Odorata are prolific seeders and we see seedlings all around the perimeter. It depends on the look you want. To me, pickerel may look a bit more unkept than the iris but flowers all summer, while Iris looks a bit more kept, blooms in the spring, and provides nice foliage all summer. Also, pickerel is emergent will grow in water 12” deep water while the iris can grow above the waterline down to about 4” deep.

For plants that spread by root or rhizome, planting in pots or planting rings can work to prevent spreading. I have both with pickerel and white lilies dotting the whole perimeter but I think I am aiming for a more wild look.

Comment about a comment.
"For plants that spread by root or rhizome, planting in pots or planting rings can work to prevent spreading." IMO this should read:
For plants that spread ONLY by root or rhizome, planting in pots or planting rings can work to prevent AND REDUCE spreading.

Plants that produce fertile seeds will spread despite growing in pots or rings. One very good example is the yellow water iris (Iris pseudacorus). They are very good at spreading by their seeds and actually by many considered as a rampant and invasive species. Numerous other species are in the fertile seed category. Another example is the native white water lily that spreads by both fragmented rhizome (buds) and fertile seeds. Note IMO hybrid water lilies very rarely have fertile seeds that easily sprout new plants. Hybridized lilies could have infertile seeds?
How to hybridize water lilies - search
Water Lily Hybridization Kirk Strawn, PhD

How does sweet flag do with some fluctuating water levels? Looks like it wants up to 4" of water in bog style. Considering it for an area at the water inlet but we are currently down 18-24".

Sweet flag growing out of the water.
I do see a few plants growing maybe a foot above the water line where the water level has moved down during the summer. I do not get more than 16" of water fluctuation maximum so I have no experience with it growing when water is down more than 16"-24". IMO if the bank stays reasonably damp the sweet flag will survive okay until the water inundates the shore where it is growing. Some of my sweet flag outer deeper growing plants grows in water about 30" deep.at full pool.

I think what matters most is the substrate for the sweet flag roots.

If planted in very heavy compacted clay, then when the pond stays low enough for the clay to bake dry, your sweet flag will perish.

If planted in an uncompacted mixture of sand, silt, and clay, then I believe the roots will grow down the 18-24" to reach the available water in your saturated substrate.

I would be more worried about the plants being "drowned" for an extended period. During a big rain event, how long does it take your pond to go back to the full pool elevation?

I'm not sure....Hoping for a little rain to check that out this fall. So far....our rains have been absorbed by the thirsty soils and 3/4" cracks in them...

Interesting discussion above.
My pond fills in April with irrigation water then begins to drop in October when water is no longer available.
I've planted yellow water iris, which struggles mightily and did not even bloom this year.
Could I expect any success with pickerel weed or other iris/flag species? Cattails and hard stem bulrush do fair.
Lowest level is in April and is 4' below full pool.
Thanks for your thoughts.

Personally a fan of the Pickerelweed. It seems to have done well so far. Looking forward to see how it comes back next spring but at this point it's three gold stars from me.

We had some success with the plants we put in this year but the pickerel weed looks to be in the best shape by far right now.

4Corners,

What is your elevation?

I don't want us "low ground" guys to be giving you any bad advice!

Pickerel Weed Growing Zones

Pickerel rush (Pontederia cordata) is a native North American plant with a wide zone range in USDA plant hardiness zones 3 to 10.

USDA Growing Zones

Basically the entire US. I'm guessing there might be some instances where elevation may play into it way up there in the mountains or out there in the desert. Looks to have the ability to grow damn near anywhere though.

Rod, our elevation is 6500. Pond bottom is clay from decomposed Mancos shale. Surface water temps rise to mid 70s in the heat of summer. Irrigation water inflow is cool enough to keep trout alive all summer.

My biggest concern is that the roots will freeze in winter when the water level drops below where either iris or pickerel is growing.

Yep, that is what I was afraid of in your situation. What is your frost line there?

I suspect your plant roots MAY not go deeper than your frost line. However, many plants can survive having their roots spend the winter in frozen ground. My wife frequently divides iris bulbs (garden variety) with our neighbors. They are planted very shallow and our frost line is around 24". (More importantly, Boondoggle's link shows they can survive in cold zones.)

Maybe try a few plantings on your north bank? (south facing) Also, the frost line on slopes is not horizontal, rather it roughly parallels the slope. If you plant them on your steeper banks, then their feet should be a little warmer during the winter. Also, even if the plants go out of the water during winter, the adjacent pond will actually keep your banks a little bit warmer.


P.S. Any of outcrops of the Mancos Shale on your property? In some locations, the concretions (nodules) may hold treasures like ammonites or shark teeth.

4CP,

If you ever find yourself around Leadville/Buena Vista area try fishing the Arkansas for browns and keep a look out for wild iris blooming in the May through June time frame. IIRC there are meadows north of Twin Lakes between Buena Vista and Leadville that periodically flood and support the wild iris. They don't grow tall but have a bright blue to blueish purple flower. IIRC there is a county road that veers left from the hiway that leads to the old Leadville fish hatchery. The iris are in meadows on the East side of that road. Being mountain acclimated, they may also do well for you.

Thanks for your comments guys.

FishinRod,

Our frost line appears to be very shallow. I've never found frozen soil deeper than 6". Authorities consider it to be a couple of feet however. We have few days in winter that stay below freezing all day. We don't have continuous snow cover, but when the air temps are below 32 for a period, there is generally a blanket of snow.
Our horticultural irises do very well.

I did plant the yellow water irises on the north bank of the pond. Almost all of our shoreline drops straight down about a foot at the full pool point. The bank seems to be stabilized by the intertwined roots of a thick growing fine stemmed rush, or cattails and bulrushes. I've tried to get three cornered bulrush established without success. Rather than plant on that vertical bank, perhaps I need to try planting on the pond bottom itself? That would be in about 1 foot of water at full pool. As our climate is very nearly desert, I may have to water plantings in the late winter and early spring when the exposed pond bottom is at its driest?

We do have two Mancos shale outcroppings. Fossils we've found include only shells, no shark teeth yet. A neighbor several hundred yards away has big ammonites on his place, 20" in diameter or greater.

jpsdad, we see extensive patches of those lovely wild irises in some large meadows at somewhat higher elevation, and the plants are abundant up in our Ponderosa pine woods in many swales. I've transplanted some which have dwindled and disappeared over the years. I'll have to try again, placing them in spots I can water in winter and spring.