Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Building a dam Pond banks

Hello everyone, this is my first forum discussion on pond boss and I have found some good information from other discussions but I need a little more if anyone has some for me. Myself and a friend are renovating a pond and are wondering the best solution (inexpensive, low-labor) to prevent bank erosion. There is planned to be a rock covered dam on the south side of the 2 acre pond and 2 fingers that stretch north and west. As we get ready to start dozing we are wondering if we should have a sharp ledge or graduate slope. We know that we need to have a good planting of grass to help but what other things can we do to prevent the north winds from eroding and filling in the pond. From anyone’s experiences we would like to know what you think. Thanks.

I had pretty steep banks around the pond, and after renovation and finish grading, used a local hydroseeder. He cost me ~!2k but he did a lot more than just around my 1 acre pond, and I'm glad I did it. Used a "california" erosion mix of seed containing native grasses and wildflowers. Both perennial and annual. Some of the ryes and fescues do really good. Had record rains this winter and it held up good. Dont know if you got NE native mixes, some prarie mix...consult locals.

One concern I had was the fertilizer in the hydroseed, and subsequent run-off to pond, but I dont think it had much impact, maybe helped out some phytoplankton......

Our situations are undoubtedly different, just my 2 pennies.

Have posted pics at photobucket.com, username jdsmith2, password pond101....please log me out when done. There's one pic taken shortly after the seeding. The hydroseed work was done in Nov.05, and you can see just how well it all took in all the green pics taken this May.

Oh, and Russ if you catch this post, I added some pics in the snow, very cool (so to speak), photo album is now 2 pages for complete collection.

Oh, i forgot to add that on one side of pond we dozed a narrow road (ledge), just above high water, tilted slightly back into hillside along pond edge. Kind of funnels the above slope drainage back towards upper end of pond and works good. Other side of pond is bedrock. Its steep but not going anywhere, again, our situations are different. BTW, welcome to PB, I am new too and just glad to have a few folks to yak at.

Dave

Dave,

From the first set of photos, it looked like you cut a terrace on one of your hillsides. I was wondering if that was to reduce erosion or facilitate access to the pond. Thanks for the explanation.

Thanks for the input Dave. We will seed broam and other native prairie grasses but Im kind of wondering about the slope that is going to be underwater. Our soil here is quite erodable and I don't know if it would help to keep the banks steep underwater or shallow for a good distance.

NEfish,
this link may help:
bottomscaping link

NEFish, the most stable banks I have seen were centipede grass. It vines down to the water line, and helps absorb some of the higher waves. Plant bermudagrass first for fast coverage and to help bind th esoil. Sahara is a great cultivar, but any low growing turf type seeds will do. (as opposed to the taller hay type cultivars.)

If your banks are shallow, you will eventually get lots of water weeds (for better or worse!) to help buffer the wave action.

Awsome info on the bottomsraping link Brettski, thanks a lot. The drawing of the pond and the shelf idea for bluegill and bass spawning is an exellent idea for my pond and I am going to look in to the centipede grass some more.
Thanks bobad and Brettski.

I opted for vertical (underwater) banks, which I could get away with because of bedrock. Topography of pond bottom we made to include original creek channel notched way down, on each side of which are broad sloping shelfs extending back up to base of vertical banks.

In the shelfs we excavated a number of circular craters and rimmed them with circular rock piles, making the relative elevation change as much as 10 feet around inside of craters. I just kind of saw them in a dream one night before excavating and dozing the next day.

I hope the fish like em,
yeah and if a neighborhood kid falls in or decides to have a trespassing dip, most of been told they have to be able to make the spillway before the pirana catch up to them:)

Dream away NEfish

We do not stock pirana around here - the alligators eat them.

After looking at your sight yesterday, Brettski's 'lip' idea seems perfect, and probably the most affordable way to do it. Make sure you guys take pictures as this project comes along. In fact, I would start a new thread once it gets going so we can follow the progress.

Of course, I can drive 5 miles to see it, but I am sure everyone else will want to see.

Hey NEDOC, Construction started yesterday (5/8/06). "John and the boys" must not be very busy. We will have to get out there soon and get some pics to post for sure.

NEfish, congratulations on your lake! We do get significant wind erosion on our lake and finally have had to "armor" the whole thing with concrete blocks.

One other thing, talk to more people about grasses. Smooth brome is definitely NOT native and is extremely invasive. This means that without a lot of management, most native species can't live with it. It is also almost worthless for any kind of wildlife habitat. Also, centipede grass most likely won't grow as far north as you are. In general, there really are huge regional differences in what plants will live where.

NEFish,

Are you sure your north wind is your worst? Here in the midwest our prevailing wind of west is our strongest after a cold front goes through. I got $200.00 worth of riprap size limestone and that took care of that problem. Set it in place with a small frontloader.

NEfish, had a couple beers with John. He thinks it is going to take a long time. The core trench is going to be diffucult. Things are very 'soupy' along the dam face. He was talking about doing the core trench in 15yd segments to make sure he gets it packed well. This is going to be cool. When you guys get back this way, give me a call, I would love to go out there and check it out.

He is also worried about the tap roots on the stumps causing some leakage.

Will do NEDOC, sounds like Big John wants to take his time, doesn’t sound like Big John to me.
Cecil, as far as bank stabilization your right about the prevailing wind but here our strongest come out of the north west and I should have specified that the dam is facing NNW so I think we have to do a lot of dam covering. We have a good deal of cement and limestone locally here that I think we can get our hands on so we don't have to pay the huge freight charge.

As far as all the other banks broam, canary grass, and hopefully cattails will fill in where cedar trees haven’t already. And about this we already have a notched bank from the old pond and the cedars roots are sticking out of the banks. The pond is now protected from wind a little on the sides but what does that do to the banks as far as stabilization. Would we be better off leaving the trees or taking them down?

Does anyone out there have any experience with canary grass? We know it is going to grow here and it will take a lot of work to keep it down but maybe it is a good thing to have around in some cases??? As NEDOC says ‘like a sponge’ I need information. Thanks

NEfish,

I've got reed canary grass on my farm, but it hasn't colonized my pond shoreline. The canary grass is extremely dense, but tends to stay near the creek banks. Are you ever on the Nebraska Game and Parks forum? If so, the hunting side would be a possible place to ask if canary grass has an impact in respect to wetland/migratory ducks. Let us know what you find out.

Bruce

The wetland experts heavily frown on reed canary grass in wetlands, especially in Clay Co. As a side note, horses love to eat reed canary grass early in the year, it is one of the first things to green up and a few horses will do a decent job of keeping the reed carnary grass under control without chemically spraying for it in a wetland. It was one of the things my little brother and his wife "taught" the wetland experts in Clay Co. a few years ago.

As a pheasant hunter though I prefered having the canary grass in his wetland, it was the most likely type of vegetation that my pointers would lock a pheasant down in. With the canary grass gone the "ditch parrots" seem to run like crazy now and are much harder for my dogs to get those "ditch parrots" locked down.

NEfish, the wetland experts will also frown upon having cattails in your area, I'm guessing a number of pond miesters on here will frown on it too as cattails have a tendency to fill in a pond over time. A good person to talk to in your area would be Bill Whitney with the Prairie Plains Insitute, he could probably make some suggestions on native plants to your area that would be less invasive and still help control shoreline erosion, native plants would probably be a better attractor for waterfowl. I know Bill has been a big help to my little brother over the last several years. As side note I could check with my little brother about getting some seed stock from his wetland to plant around your new pond. He lives 12-15 miles south of Sutton and Nedoc also knows my bothers wife.

Thanks a lot Shorty, I'll give NEDOC a call and see what we can think up. We need native vegetation that will be great for fish and won't take over. Waterfowl isn't really a aspect of interest(plenty of other places we can view/hunt them around here.)

[QUOTE] [/As a pheasant hunter though I prefered having the canary grass in his wetland, it was the most likely type of vegetation that my pointers would lock a pheasant down in.]

The canary grass is something that I think we want around the pond for pheasants and if it keeps waterfowl away we don't care, but then again we don't want it to take over.

Ha, I was going to tell you that you need to talk to SHORTY, because he knows his aquatic vegetation.

My big pond is a prime example of what you get with canary grass. Only difference would be, yours shouldn't fluctuate in water level as much as mine because it can be controlled with the well. I notice there is already canary grass growing at Casey's site, so if you leave it alone I would be willing to bet that is what you get along the shoreline. It will probably be tough to avoid cattails in our area as well, as they are everywhere. The best way to avoid that is probably to design the depths of the pond accordingly. Personally, I want as many cattails as possible in my big pond at this time d/t water quality issues.

My canary grass holds winter pheasants but not enough to make it a determining factor for you.

When I seine my big pond, maybe we can talk Bruce and SHORTY into coming down and having a little SC Nebraska Pond Boss Meeting and have them look at the site and give more ideas.

Maybe if they get that pond done soon enough you can honeymoon there.

I'll come into town for sure.

Good, I was looking for cheap labor and someone who knows how to run a seine. I will provide the Diet Mountain Dew.

All-you-can-drink Diet Dew? I may come myself.

NEfish, I think Shorty is right, talk to Bill Whiney at Aurora. About the only reason pheasants would be in reed canary grass is because everything else is so much worse. NE GFP has done extensive work on these grasses. The best analogy I can think of on brome and reed canary is someone that "knows it all" advising you to put green sunfish, bullheads and northern pike in your lake. If you think that makes sense, then brome and reed canary will work just fine for you.