Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Feeding Fish food

What is the best pelleted food (goal is for bluegill, and ultimately larger bass), and what is the best for the $? The aquamax looks pricey, but if it's a must.....

Short answer... If you're afraid to spend money on growing a trophy fishery, you might be in trouble already.
A couple of good choices for supplementary feeding of the bottom of the food chain, Purina is one, Optimal is the other and my choice for YPerch and BG. Yes, there are other feeds but these 2 because of availability and FCR, are probably the best choices.

I switched to Optimal from Purina a long time ago and the only reason I'd go back is if Optimal was no longer available. It's a LOT easier to get, you can get it shipped right to your door.

I'll be using Optimal JR when the pond it stocked this spring. Ordered in (2) bags that shipped right to front door. It is on the pricey side but I keep hearing and seeing great things about it. You are in full control on how much you feed is the offset. Best quality food will take less food than a cheap food that you have to feed more of.
- Optimal JR, in my case, was a recommendation straight from the manufacturer based on the species I am going to have in the pond. It was nice to reach out and actually talk about what I was looking for and have them respond with this is the one and why.

Ordered Optimal. Thanks.

Unless Purina is stocked by your local feed mill, a mile and a half down the road. (And you're there every other week for horse and cattle feed.)

What is considered expensive fish food? Overton's in Buffalo, Texas sells Triton/Cargill Aquafeed 4512 for $50 per 50 lb bag.
That's what I'm feeding small CNBG stocked 5 months ago.

Don't just look at the price per pound of the feed. There are many other things to consider. I can buy cheap food from Tractor Supply, but when you look at how much of the feed the fish can actually digest, how much more of the feed goes to feeding the plants and algae in the pond, and how slow the fish grow per pound of feed that is fed, Optimal is cheaper than the Tractor Supply food.

I have found that Optimal is the cheapest fish food on the market when you consider the pounds of fish flesh produced per pound of food that is fed to the fish.

A friend has a pond North of Fort Collins, Co and has nothing but big catfish in the pond. I asked him what he used to get them so big and he said he feeds them Old Roy dog foof from Walmart.

Lordy, just think how big they would be if he fed them cat food!

I'm with Esshup 100 percent , for all the reasons stated. Plus, when I switched from TSC feed to Optimal an amazing thing happened.
On TSC feed, my grass carp were on it before any other species, hard and fast, ignoring the greenery and consuming at least 1/2 the
TSC Feed , possibly 2/3rds .First evening of Optimal, the GC showed up, were swimming around feed for 10 seconds and left. 2nd evening of Optimal , 1 GC showed up, stayed outside oil slick for a short time, left, nary a GC eating Feed in the last 9 months (feeding Trout now ). What I save not feeding GC, not driving 36 miles round trip to TSC to pick up feed , more than pays for top quality feed.

I think after you see how well the BG grow using Optimal you will stay with using this brand of food. BG grow really well on this food because of its high digestibility of beneficial protein and low amount of fish waste. Remember when feeding pellets you should be harvesting some of the crop to keep the carrying capacity of total fish biomass balanced for your goals. Harvest is very important for keeping the pond from being overpopulated with too many smaller fish. Annually remove some fish so remaining fish have more to eat and keep growing well on the same amount of food you are feeding.

Bill, that is so true. Last year I was called to restock 2 ponds where the owners had way too many fish in the pond (one had 2+;b bluegills) and didn't harvest enough fish. "Those are my babies!".

Mother Nature harvested their ponds for them.........

+1 to Bill and Esshup's comments.

Would only add that the same applies to ponds without feeding (though the harvest should be proportional to the standing weight the food carries). You can rest assured, that if you harvest in the Fall, that next Fall the weight of fish in your pond will be right back to where it was before you harvested. The FCR (food conversion ratio) of your feed will improve and the growth of survivors will benefit.

Here's the problem I experience feeding Optimal BG.
My GSF gobble it down, preferring it to its alternative, which I will get to in a moment.
My YP only grab the Optimal. My trout splash me with their tails as they vigorously swirl through the pack of feeding sunfishes, scarfing as many Optimal pellets as their wide mouths can gather in each rise.
My grass carp move through the melee vacuuming mainly the pellets.

Then there are the spoiled brat bluegill sunfish. Nearly every one of those hundreds ONLY will swallow dried meal worms. If I only hand throw pellets, then check the stomach contents of BGs, what do I find?! Empty stomachs. I can even deprive the BG of their precious meal worms for a few days, feeding only Optimal. Still no takers; empty stomachs in harvested BG.
Toss out some crumbled meal worms and the BG feeding frenzy starts.

Amazingly, even after going through the long winter of no feeding, the BG won't take pellets in Spring.
Some fish whisperer needs to come have a talk with my BG population.

As it stands now, I just keeping fattening these finicky fishies on meal worms and bonking them on the head when fillet time comes.

Very similar to starting fish to eat pellets by using freeze dried krill-it's not fish meal. I have a hell of a time getting fish to move from krill meal base to fish meal. Same thing is happening to you.
I have found no tried and true method to get them on fish meal other than just quitting the other feed for an extended period-we are really messing with mother nature here.
We can feed krill based starters but if we have to keep them on the largest premium starter, it's going to cost big money to continue that long term.
I'm told the krill has a flavor or "taste" very similar to zoo plankton, so there is a part of the puzzle. How do we get the fish to transition to fishmeal ? Time and effort is all I know that will work.

It's always interesting how the mileage varies depending on the pond and the observer.

4CP, I suspect there is a reason why the BG prefer the worms and I if I had to guess it would be that the dried mealworms are very good food. I know you will appreciate what follows ... so I will share. An online source states that dry mealworms contain 53% protein and 28% lipid. So just consider them a 53/28 fish feed without added vitamins. Using average values for these two I estimate an energy density of 21,309 J/gram. So this is very comparable to dry GAM. The higher lipid content gives the Mealworms a slight edge on energy density. Please also note arbitrary formulations of feeds at Protein/Lipid contents of 48/18 and 40/12 respectively. For the these formulations I give no credit for plant protein ... basically using the assumption that LMB (and also BG) get no benefit from them. This is probably true .... otherwise ... it would make no sense to pay the extra for animal protein and one would see 80% of the conversion of a high quality 40/12 feed when feeding a low quality 32% feed that has a lot of plant based protein (something that doesn't happen so I stand by my assumption of the worthlessness of plant based ingredients for conversion in BG and LMB).

Using the 40/12 energy density, assuming similar digestibility of lipids and the animal protein components relative to dried GAM (something I have detailed energetics information for) I can make an estimate of digestible energy in an arbitrary 40/12 feed. It turns out to be less than half of the Mealworms. I noticed where one could buy bulk Mealworms for around $6 a pound. On a digestible energy basis, this would be like paying $2.40 for a high quality 40/12 feed. The 40/12 is a better value than the Mealworms in terms of $/digestible energy (based on fish meal and fish oil as protein and lipid sources of digestible energy). But given you love your BG and the BG love the Mealworms, I will not discourage it at all, LOL. Power to you and your pampered BG.



So I thought you might enjoy an estimate of conversion. For daily consumption of 1% of body weight each day at 75F, I estimate that dried mealworms convert at 0.67, that is, at 1 lb wet gain for each 0.67 pounds fed. Contrast that with 3% of body weight consumption of 40/12 which comes in at 1.46 FCR. (EDIT: Earlier posted an early version of the spreadsheet where 40% was tentatively used for the protein content of Soymeal and this should have been 48%. Making adjustments for that the FCR went from 1.25 to 1.46 at 3% of body weight and 75F.)

Snipe what say you? When you got the FCR result for the ~40% feeds at FCR 1.42 to 1.52, what was the rate of feeding? Was it 3% of body weight or was it higher than that?

The estimate for Mealworms is just what I said ... an estimate ... that relies on a similar energy profile of its lipids and proteins and similar digestibility of its lipids and proteins in relation to that of Gambusia. There probably are differences and the estimate is probably ROSY. But what I can tell you is this. It needn't be a mystery if you are of a mind to cage a few and find out .

It's all up to the pond owner what they want to feed, and what they can afford to feed. I have been at a pond where the pond owner had 2# HBG, and only fed Aquamax 500. Toss in Aquamax 600 and they'd swim past it to get the 500. To fish that pond, you really had to "match the hatch" or you wouldn't catch very many fish.

If it was my pond, I am a bit more cold hearted than others, and I'd say either eat what I'm willing to throw out there, or starve. I don't have time to hand throw on a daily basis.

This makes perfect sense Snipe. Presented with no other alternative, fish will eventually make the transition. Very interesting the adjustment fish trained on krill have to make. Thank you for sharing this.

That's what I tell my kids, LOL! But we still break out some ice cream from time to time.

Made me snicker when I read it.

BC had a good suggestion on this when I was working on my stocking plan. Encouraged me to get 10-20 lbs of the food that the fish were on at the hatchery delivered with the order and then blend it with whatever food I wanted to feed them. Seemed to be a smart way to approach new to me fish with a slower transition to new food

I suspect I will use your philosophy Esshup. No way I'm driving 1-1/2 hrs round trip to sprinkle some meal worms in. If you don't like what I'm tossing in the water gonna have to fend for yourself.

Curious Snipe. What is the "typical" transition time for this. A week, 3 weeks...more?

If you want a faster transition from worms or krill to pellets, I suggest you try softening the pellets. As an additive incentive to eat the pellets squeeze some of them so they sink. This does take time but it pays dividends as results. Other flavor enhancements you can use is add flavoring to the water used to soften the pellets. I've used fish, clam and shrimp bouillon. I've also used pureed FHM, mashed or pureed canned tuna in oil.
all these flavor enhancements are excellent for pellet training fish. Fish love all sorts of soft sinking food even if it is pellets. Don't use the cheap pellets. Higher quality pellets usually have some flavor enhancers added.
Keep track of how many days it takes for fish to start eating pellets.

4Corners - Try adding the crushed or ground meal worm material to the pellet softening water for soaking the pellets. IMO transition to pellets will be pretty quick. Once you see BG taking the soft pellets slowly transition to the drier and drier pellets using less and less water and ground or powered dried meal worms . Transiton may take 7-10 days. Report your results in this thread. Here is the softening recipe. I feed all my fish softened pellets. See notes at the end.

Softening High Protein Fish Pellets Pay attention to the details. - Cecil calls these hydrated pellets and softens pellets in a zip loc bag.

Here is my old recipe for softening Aquamax or good quality high protein fish food pellets. I created the recipe after Bio-Oregon Fish Food Company (formally known as BioProducts) in the late 1980's quit making their soft fish food pellets. Note Bio-Oregon uses Krill in some of their foods.

https://bio-oregon.com/specialty-feeds/

J. R. Snow & James I. Maxwell (1970) Oregon Moist Pellet as a Production Ration for Largemouth Bass, The Progressive Fish-Culturist, 32:2, 101-102

Keep in mind that different batches or “runs” of different brands of dried pellets usually require slightly different ratios of pellets to water. I am sure this has to do with the type of raw product used as additives, mostly carbohydrates, that are seasonally available to Purina or other fish food manufacturers. All Aquamax pellet sizes larger than size 5D02 will soak and become pliable. Smaller pellets soften faster. Water ratio to amount of dry pellets will be similar. I have used this same or very similar ratio of water to food for several other brands of high protein fish food. Lower protein fish food (32%) will NOT soften properly.

One quart of pellets (1/4” 5D06) and 6 to 6.5 ounces of water. Sometimes different batches will require 8 oz of water per quart of pellets. Small batches: one cup of pellets & 2 tablespoons of water. Shake pellets and water for one full minute or until ALL water is absorbed and NO “gravy” remains. Pellets should be shaken once to three times within the next 20 to 30 minutes to keep individual pellets from sticking together. When done you want ALL pellets to have a very similar softness but definitely not mushy. When properly softened, the pellets with stick together and mold like damp clay or cookie dough while not sticking to your fingers.

The soaking container for a lot of fish, I use is a 1.5gal plastic container with a lid. I think the lid helps retain the moisture and prevents excessive drying of pellets so they remain more pliable and damp during the soaking process. Use a smaller container such as Cool Whip bowl with lid for small batches of pellets.

I let the pellets soak up water for 2 to 6 hours; longer is usually better and produces a more pliable pellet. I usually use overnight soaking for next day and their use is okay and produces the softest pellets. Heating the final damp pellets in the Microwave for several appropriate number of seconds sometimes makes the soft pellets more pliable and moldable. The heat is actually causing the carbohydrates to change & soften.

Soaking times may vary somewhat depending on pellet size and brand of feed. Sometimes to slightly increase dampness, and if pellets are too dry after several hours of soaking, I spray a mist or sprinkle water on them about one hour before feeding. When I first had this problem I built a water sprinkler out of a 2 qt juice bottle and I shake and sprinkle and even coating of water on pellets and allow them to soak for about another hour. A spray bottle mister works good for smaller batches.

You do not want pellets to be sticky when they are finished soaking. When pellets are done soaking and pliable nothing should stick to our fingers when working with for compacting, squeezing or rolling the pellets. Sticky pellets means that too much water was added during the soaking. Soaked pellets will float or sink depending on whether the air has been squeezed out to the pellet.

Aquamax pellets after soaking and even when stored in the refrigerator, tend to lose their pliability and become crumbly after 24 hours. Optimal stays softer and pliable longer than Aquamax. At this point Amax are still soft but is harder to roll or mold them into a soft damp pellet. However other fish food brands such as Silver Cup (Skretting), Optimal, or Zeigler will maintain pliability after 24 hrs in the frig. I often feed the day old damp crumbly pellets to non-specialty fish or minnows. Damp pellets will form mold fairly quickly when not refrigerated after softening.

Moist pellets can be frozen as molded pellets or feeding the individual pellets. Don’t be afraid to experiment. I am using some Fall 2023 soft frozen pellets in February 2024 and the soft pellets when thawed are still moldable esp if warmed in the microwave.

NOTES –
1. Softening technique does not work with lower protein (28%-32%) fish food. When soaked they turn to mush.

2. If you are NOT rolling, molding for forming a sinking type of larger pellet, then proper softness is not as important to the process. Many fish will readily accept softened pellets of almost any softened texture. Small fish can swallow a large soft pellet.

3. If I want to soften pellets a little faster I moisten them as per instructions and then put them in the microwave long enough to heat them or use warm or hot water which speeds the water absorption. For small batches such as ½ cup heat on high for about 15-20 seconds. Remove shake several times during the first 2-3 minutes let cool. Test softness then sometimes adding a little more sprinkling of water and reheating will help finishing the softening process. Heating or warming will also make them easier to mold or shape. Experiment for what works for you.

Thanks, all of you, for your input. It's all entertaining and informative.
Particularly, thanks Bill Cody for Cecil's methods. I will try some, most, or all of these ideas, and report back to this thread.
There will be a delay. My pond has ice forming on it each night which then melts off by mid afternoon. I won't be feeding the little darlings until April anyway.

I think SMB are the hardest of what I train, to get them to switch over and it usually takes me 2-3 weeks to get them to swap and probably 4 weeks to be very aggressive to fish meal pellets.
Using Cody's method will probably cut that time substantially.
My YP will be eating anything I throw at them in a week, they don't spit anything out.
My RES have trained very well to pellets. i start with 3, then 4 and start mixing G3 in. They eat all as well.

I've pellet trained Hybrid Crappie to take pellets too.

Nice!

In my limited experience, the main cohort of Crappie in a BOW always seem to be very efficient at eating up the food supply for their size range. Even when they are thriving in the short term, I fear that stunting is always peeking over the horizon.


Pellet feeding them would certainly remove or mitigate that fear. (At least when the pond population was still below the carrying capacity.)

How did the crappie respond in that situation with pellet feeding, esshup? I would think there would be a chance to have fantastic results?

The stockers grew really fast, I'm not sure that any offspring are eating pellets. Because the stockers grew fast, and were in great body condition, it was even more important to keep harvesting the smaller crappie (8"-10" size)

For pellet eating fish, I have found that if the pellet eaters do not have a long history of many generations eating pellets thus their offspring tend to not quickly learn to be good pellet eating fish food unless the new generations are each trained or conditioned to eat pellets. Instinct tells the new generation to focus on eating historically what was eaten in the past - usually natural foods. One very good example is with trout. Trout have for many, many years been raised from fry to adults all eating pellets. This tendency to eat pelleted food has been engrained in the genetic composition of trout. Thus trout fry very readily accept pellet fry power soon after hatching. I and many regional yellow perch growers who are using a local long time domesticated strain of YP (43yrs) are seeing the same thing happening as what happens with the new generations of trout who quickly learn to eat pelleted fish food. These new generation YP have a very high percentage rate of pellet acceptance.

My hybrid crappie are eating pellets the optimal blue gill they will not eat the Jr as well kind strange I just did not think any kind of crappie would take pellets but these do.

Good job!

I hope you have an epic crappie fry in your future.

I'm going to say I'm seeing very similar results with some SMB I've had all winter.. I cannot get the to eat pellets using any method. They were sourced from another grower and the only thing I can get them to eat is freeze dried krill, yet they will NOT transition to krill meal based feed, hydrated or otherwise. I think these fish are nearly 2" shorter than the pellet eaters from my own offspring selection.

Wow, those are some picky eaters, Snipe!

I would think at some point they would get hungry enough to eat something besides their preferred food ... which shows how little I know about feed training fish.

I am sure you have tried everything, but I will throw out one potentially stupid idea.

There are lots of examples in nature of an individual animal that has learned a beneficial behavior and it teaches that behavior to other animals in its group. What would happen if you tagged one of YOUR SMB that does readily eat pellets and put him in the tank with the picky eaters? When they observed that fish popping the pellets, might it induce them to also pop the pellets?

I had been using Aquamax 500 for past few years, but very discouraging to see the price increase from $55 for 50 pounds to $70 in one year. I'm sure all the brands have increased, but in general the inflation has been terrible.

There's 700 fish in the same tank, a mix of mine and the other source fish. Very few have learned by example, wish it was that simple but it hasn't proven to be so..

It was a good question though, Rod.

Optimal is still $60 for 40 lb bag that ships free to your door and price has not changed. It throws better and in my opinion, fish eat it better and grow faster and to me it goes farther.