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#563408 01/07/24 10:20 AM
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So I’ve been in constant contact with American aeraton and a Kasco rep on trying to solve my issue, but I wanted to ask the forum if they had any ideas on why this is happening and if anyone has had this issue before. Btw, both guys that have been helping me on this are absolutely fantastic and super helpful. Probably the best customer service I’ve had on anything I’ve ever bought. Matt from American aeration is actually sending me a new unit to see if thats actually the issue here..

Anyways, my set up.. I have a Kasco Ra2 unit with 2 diffusers. One at 3’ with a full length of provided weighted hose and a diffuser at 8-9’ with about half the length of provided hose. I turned the deep end off for the winter and letting the shallow run solo. I’ll let it run and the unit within 30 mins to an hour maybe even a few hours (it’s very random) starts setting off the pressure relief valve and it’ll start “burping”.

I’ve entirely disconnected the diffuser on the shallow end so no obstruction (besides maybe chance of something being in the line itself)(hopefully not) and I’ve played around with switching the valves, opening and closing the deep end and shallow while the burping was present. While burping with the shallow end open, I would close it and open the deep end. The burping would stop. I’d close deep end and open the shallow and the burping would persist. Which makes me think there is a blockage in the shallow, but why would it run fine for hours, no problem at all? The flow out of the line is pretty intense and doesn’t look light.

I’ve questioned having a bad prv spring and maybe it’s light? Idk. I’m trying to do anything besides unbury my lines. Also from the unit itself to the pond I have both lines insulated to the ground (~3.5’) that run to a pvc pipe that runs about 10’ to fully buried line that spans maybe 6-7’ if that.. before entering the pond. I’ve also been pretty careful with “crushing” the line when I put it in but who knows.

If the line is somehow crushed or if there’s a blockage, is there something I can run down it to possibly free it? Speaking of running stuff down the line.. I’ve poured iso alcohol down the line which would “fix” it for a few hours before it started up again.

Sorry for such a long text

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Originally Posted by WiYeti
I’ve poured iso alcohol down the line which would “fix” it for a few hours before it started up again.


I am no expert by any means, but I started thinking about this, then you mentioned this quote which made me more suspicious. How cold has it been? Condensation can form in the airline and freeze, iso alcohol is usually the cure. Could be ice building up in the airline. I could be way off here, but was just my first thought.


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^^DrewSH is correct. I'm going to take a SWAG and say that your buried line is 3/8" ID? Correct or incorrect?

If so, and the other line is the same ID I'd bet that there is a rise/dip in the line that is letting condensate collect and most likely freeze in the line.

How long is the run underground to each of the diffusers? When it burps, what is the pressure that is in the system? If you don't know what the pressure is, add a low pressure gauge (0-30 psi)

If the line is freezing you have 2 options.

1) run another line but make it 1" ID. You can neck it up/down where it enters the pond and where it exits the compressor. You could go 1/2", but the cost difference is minimal and it takes the same amount of labor to go with either size. You use black low pressure poly tubing for the run. We've run 1" line over 900 feet to a pond without any freezing issues, and we only ran it 12" deep. I know there are rises and dips in the line but it hasn't been affected in the 5 or 6 years that it's been there. That 1" line replaced a 3/8" line that was constantly giving the pond owner problems in the winter.

2) You buy one of these and install it near the compressor. It automatically injects alcohol in the line when back pressure reaches a certain psi. air line de-icer 1 air-line deicer 2


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Yes I have a 3/8” line. I did have that suspicion as well when it would happen late at night/ early morning when it just started getting cold and obviously the temp would be the coldest at that moment.. is there a pre moisture filter catch I can throw on if that’s a thing? To prevent the build up to begin with? Or is that iso drip / replacing the line my only option?

It’s running right now sub 32f. Don’t know what the humidity is but I do think what y’all are concurring is my fear.. I probably won’t replace the line until spring

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Or, can I run a heat tape down partially to see if that keeps the moisture from freezing? I can’t run it all the way but like I said I can run it through the 10’ of pipe until it gets to fully buried section. You think that would be enough?

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Originally Posted by WiYeti
Yes I have a 3/8” line. I did have that suspicion as well when it would happen late at night/ early morning when it just started getting cold and obviously the temp would be the coldest at that moment.. is there a pre moisture filter catch I can throw on if that’s a thing? To prevent the build up to begin with? Or is that iso drip / replacing the line my only option?

It’s running right now sub 32f. Don’t know what the humidity is but I do think what y’all are concurring is my fear.. I probably won’t replace the line until spring

Yes, there are moisture traps that you can buy, they make them for industrial use for air compressors to keep moisture out of the line. Will they work well enough to keep the 3/8" line from freezing? I cannot say for sure because I've never used one for that application. They go in the system post compressor. One thing you do NOT want to do is add any oil to the airline, which is not the case for industrial applications for running air tools. If you are running air for paint guns, then you don't want any oil in the line.

I just looked up the price on dryers. The most inexpensive ones are a little over half the price of the Koenders ISO system. I'd just go order that now so you hopefully have it in place before the cold snap hits in a week or you will be fighting the ice. If you think you can use the dryer in another application once you swap to a bigger line, then go that route. But I don't know for sure if they'd work and I'd hate to see you spend your $$ on something that might or might not work and have to spend that same $$ all over again to get you through this winter before swapping out the line.

The ISO system from Koenders doesn't add any ISO to the line until it's needed. They say to fill it with 2.5 gallons but typically 1 gallon will be more than enough to last one winter. A customer has 5 of those for his ponds, and we've adapted them to run with the 1" buried line on 3 of the 5 systems. He still has 2 windmill systems that use 3/8" line and there are no issues with them freezing up if he remembers to put ISO in the tanks. The ones on the 1" line still have ISO in them from when we swapped out the 3/8" line to 1" three years ago.

Why aeration companies sell 3/8" line to begin with is beyond me. Going to a larger line will reduce the wear and tear on your compressor too. If you have a pressure gauge on it (which you should have no matter what) you will see a drop in line pressure when you switch to a bigger line - less back pressure.

I talked to one aeration company and asked why they didn't offer a larger air line to run to the pond and they said that the airline size didn't matter, We don't sell any of their equipment because I feel that if they don't know basic things like that what else are they not understanding about their aeration systems that they make?

We only use 1/2"-5/8" self sinking air line in ponds, and if we have to bury airline to a pond we just go 1" for almost all applications. We have installed a system where we had to use 1 1/4" black poly line to go from the compressor to the pond due to the length of run, but that was an exception.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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What’s your company so I can purchase the line from you.? It sucks buying the iso setup and then buying the line/ re doing my setup next year but if it also increases my lifespan I might as well. The thing definitely wasn’t cheap.

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Also, what difference between “HD Electric Aerator Freeze Control System” and the “windmill version”

Why would the windmill version not work on the electric and why is it $90 more?

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Any chance you can reduce the condensation in the line a little more cheaply by cleaning up your supply air going into the intake of your air compressor?

For example, making sure no moisture is getting into your compressor box, running a pipe higher into the air for you box intake, pulling some dry air from inside your house or garage to the compressor intake etc.?

Any little bit might help.

Also, I agree with the bigger diameter line advice. That reduces flow pressures saving energy and wear on the compressor, and your diameter will never "break down" like an iso injection system might - right when you leave town for a week.

Good luck on your fixes!

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Originally Posted by WiYeti
Also, what difference between “HD Electric Aerator Freeze Control System” and the “windmill version”

Why would the windmill version not work on the electric and why is it $90 more?


We don't sell Koenders. What is the difference? In looking at both models as they are installed, not a durn thing. I'd call Koenders and ask them what the specific differences are between the two models. If they say one is for the windmill and one is for electric, ask them for specific part numbers that are different between the two models. I know the difference between an electric vs. a windmill "compressor" is 1 to 2 cfm of air.

We switched from running 2 of their electric compressors to a single Gast 1/4 hp rotary vane compressor. The cfm more than doubled from what both of their electric diaphragm compressors put out combined.


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The unit is a couple hundred feet from the garage/ house so sadly raising the intake is not a possibility. I’m going to try the new unit that he’s sending first, heat tape second, iso drip third, and if that don’t work I’ll stir up a pot of witch craft.

I’ll replace the lines in spring no matter what. Wish that I knew that straight off the bat. I thought I was done moving soil.

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Good luck! Let us know what works for you.


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So, I’ve installed the iso drip, confirmed that I had it installed correctly, sent a video to make sure, and the only thing that I/we can think of is that the line is pinched. I have the line leaking more air than ever before and it’s still setting off the prv.

Btw what happened when I set the iso drip up.. I turned it on, watched the gauge go over max, the iso poured into the line (don’t know how much but it was a few seconds worth) the prv was going off, and then I turned the unit off. I disconnected the iso drip and reconnected how I had it previously. But now it’s getting set off worse than ever.

Luckily I have a hole open from when it was “working” decently.. and now since it’s warmed up it’s still open but even with this warmer weather it is still burping with a pretty decent amount of air being bleed off. The only thing I can think of is the line is now being crushed by water weight. I don’t think I’ll be able to tackle that issue until spring/ summer. Big bummer.

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In my limited experience (with larger diameter pipelines), the drip is more of a preventative measure than a cure.

Meaning, if you have a solid block of ice at a sag in your line, the alcohol will not immediately melt the block and open the line. The alcohol works normally by depressing the freezing point of water.

Keep fiddling with your system, hopefully it will come around and you can avoid a bigger repair. No guarantees, but at least I am crossing my fingers for you!


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