Pond Boss Forums FISH & FISHING Show off your catch Catch and release your giants

Nice!

It is certainly beneficial to have your hawgs NOT get hook shy.

What strain of LMB do you have in your pond, and how long ago was the previous time you caught that bass?

August. I've caught her 3 times. 3 very different sets of conditions, depth, and lures/presentations.

Sorry. I put 2" f1's in the pond in June. This is obviously not one one those. Northern strain. The pond is from the early 60's and hasn't been managed. I'm somewhat certain that this is the only big fish I currently have. Possibly 1 more.

I"m glad your trophy LMB didn't die from the prior catch, and I hope he/she lives for many, many more years.

If you value his/her genetics, then your core desire is to put the least possible amount of stress on that fish in any/all activity with it.

One suggestion is to tare your carry bag, and then weigh the fish in the bag. Just less stress overall while still getting the weight.

Whether or not tossing him/her back in the water is best for the fish...who knows?

Bass don't grow as well with a broken jaw.

Thought about that, but this one has been fine so far. Will weigh the bag next time. Also, why is tossing him back not best for him? You guys live to piss on someone's parade. I agree with the hinge point and weighing him, but I love to fish and I'm not going to eat an 8lb bass. Anything other than throwing him back is retarded.

I am no fish expert "YET"
I have watched both videos and am curious has to why you put him in a bag, carry him hundreds of feet from the pond, make a 3-4 minute video then put it
back in the pond ? Wouldn't it be much easier on you and the fish to just do a short video right on the ponds edge ? Seems a lot less stressful on the fish that way ?

Gotta love the Northern strain gals that will continuously strike on artificial baits!

Certainly more fun to CATCH 8# Northern strain than not catch 10# Floridas.

I had the bag with me at the pond. Basically, the wife was in the house and I wanted a good picture. I drive my truck to the pond. Takes 10 seconds

Have you people ever fished tournaments? Fish are a little more hearty than you think. This should be a forum for PETA

We're just here to observe and comment.

You stated that you hope that bass spawns with some of your new bass in the video, so your best case is to stress that fish as little as possible.

Whatever you do, and however you do it, I hope you achieve your goals.

Thank you. I see your point, but I love to catch fish, especially bigger fish. Hopefully, this is the best of both worlds.

That LMB in the video is a female. ""Also, why is tossing him back not best for him?" Males do not grow that large. Since you've caught her 3 times on different occasions, she is a slow learner and with some good genetic propensity to not become hook shy as quickly as some many other LMB that experience jaw jerking(angling). Definitely releasing her back into the pond is smart to encourage more reproduction of those angler friendly genetics. IMO the 'posters' comments related to "" then your core desire is to put the least possible amount of stress on that fish in any/all activity with it."" referred to above water stress that can be imparted to the bass by the angler. The larger the LMB(fish) is the older it is. The older the animal becomes the weaker it becomes as it nears its age limit. Thus the more likely it can be overly stressed when out of the water. Various forms of undue stress is what very often prematurely kills all animals including people.

This info is copied from our Archives of LMB Management:
No use injuring or killing your biggest bass needlessly. Treat your biggest bass as a valuable resource. Improper handling will result in premature death of the numbers of bigger bass per acre. Also do your very best to not let the bass lie on the ground. This wipes the slime layer off their body and exposes that area for fungus growth. Anything you do to that bass to remove a portion of its body slime layer will expose this area to growth of fungus which puts a big stress on the bass. The amount of stress can in a week or two later eventually kill this fish.

Previous discussions of correct way to handle large bass
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=402580

Examples of Bad Handling
http://www.laperlaranchresort.com/fishing1.html

Thread that explains the Proper way to hold big bass for removing hooks or for taking photos
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=412230#Post412230


Bob Lusk Says About Handling Trophy Fish.
Do Not, under any circumstances, hold a true trophy bass by its lower jaw without supporting its body with your other hand under the rear part of its stomach. By no means, with any bass of any size, ever pull back on the jaw of your fish, as it can become quickly fractured or dislocated. That's usually a death sentence to a big fish. If you don't believe me, ask those who run the ShareLunker program at the Texas Parks & Wildlife Department. Several great specimens were donated to that program last year to spawn and help stock public lakes around the state. But, those gorgeous girls didn't get past angler handling to do what they could do to help many other lakes. They died from bad handling.
From: https://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/hold-a-fish.html




For your information the value of that 8lb 5oz bass was close to $800.00. Aquatic Environmental Services (Alabama) this Fall was selling big bass for $100 per pound. My advice is be a lot more careful with handling it the next time you catch it so there is a good chance she grows to 9 lbs.

The holding of the lower lip/jaw hinge is a good point. One I will be more cognizant of in the future. Appreciate the constructive criticism with regards to that.

I am aware that the fish is a female, as males don't typically get anywhere near that size. I just referred to it as "him" in the vid because of a habit. I promise, video aside, I'm not an idiot.

Maybe not - not all fish that die float, and they don't have to die right away.

PETA - People Eating Tasty Animals.

I'm one of those people who enjoy eating tasty animals! Most of us do here but the veggie eaters are welcome too. It just about respect and when one has knowledge it's really hard to watch someone doing what he wouldn't do. You've received some good wisdom here and I think you have also absorbed it. It's all good, your pond is in its sweet spot.

You seem to have very strong opinions and its not that you are wrong but lets just say that you are not entirely correct. As with so many things, the truth is more a blend of black and white than just on or the other. Many waters are ... or at least were ... managed for the production of trophies. And by this I mean that management provided for the taking of very large old fish that had lived an abundant life. The member of the club gets a physical way to remember his accomplishment and the lake afterwards can now support and grow another trophy like it. In water, where one wants to continuously produce trophy fish over decades ... the entire population must be managed and this includes even the very large fish.

It may surprise you that it is easier to grow a fish from 6.5 lbs to 8lbs over 12 months than it is to maintain that 8lb LMB for the next 12 months. By that I mean it takes more forage to maintain the 8lb LMB. On a fixed ration, the pond will support no more standing weight than that ration can maintain. Mortality is essential to growth in cases where the water is supporting this weight of LMB at years end. IOWs there will be no growth (without mortality) because there is only enough food produced to support the year's end standing weight. By the time the standing weight of LMB is what the water can maintain, mortality (or the decline of competing fish) is the only reason individual fish continue to grow. This applies to ALL fish whether big or small. Right now your pond is in its sweet spot ... the time just before competition begins to take its ugly toll. Where will your pond be in 10 years and how soon will you be ready to start from scratch again?

So it is true that it is a huge mistake to over-exploit. One must provide for recruitment into sizes that can grow into trophies and it also includes trophies that have not lived sufficiently long. But it is just as true that populations that are exploited at rates that they can reasonably grow are populations that consistently produce new trophy specimens over time and consist of members which grow well throughout life.

The pond is past its prime and hasn't been managed at all (yes, alot of it is my negligence). I have only caught 2 keeper fish out of it this year.

I have started to harvest, need to fertilize or lime (depending on tests), add structure, forage, and better genetics. An uphill battle, but I refuse to intentionally harvest an 8lb bass (there are replicas if I wanted one).

The hinge warning is good advice, and I've received other very handy tips from this forum. However, some of the comments are rather simple minded, pessimistic, and so pedantic that the poster has absolutely no sense of humor. It's OK, I still enjoy most of the forum.

No idea why I started the videos. Just thought they were fun (as I acknowledge they are simple and probably boring to others).

I was kind of bored this evening and watched almost all of your videos, I believe one could get a better understanding of your excitement from catching that big bass if they knew the back story and your end goal.
I would be the same as you if I pulled a monster out once or twice every few years.
What you are trying to do is a hard undertaking, I was about to do the same thing before Bob Lusk got me in touch with an awesome pond management guy and we decided to eradicate and start over.
Unfortunately from what I have learned over the last 8 months, that big bass is probably doing more harm than good.
I see you have stocked forage a few times and those fish have no chance to reproduce.

Why so many crawfish? I assume that was 25# or more, those things reproduce at an alarming rate, hopefully in the next few years they don’t muddy up the pond too much.

F1’s, Genes, etc. will mean nothing if the fish are never given a chance to grow.

I was given the analogy and it stuck with me from day 1.
Go to McDonald’s and get a #1 for dinner, next time take your wife with you and share that same #1,
Down the road, take your wife and kids with you and share that same meal, eventually you will all be stunted.

A fish that size has already spawned many times and is getting old.

My dad used say to never judge a person until you have walked a mile in their shoes.

Given your situation, I wouldn't remove her either. She isn't experiencing peer competition or compromising the growth of up and comers. Their is no management reason to take her out. It is possible that she is eating enough 6" to 8" LMB to give you a good hand with the culling you need to do. I was only saying ... managing large fish is not retarded when you have a lot of large fish to manage. What is right for your situation isn't right for everyone.

Yes, I most likely screwed up with the crawfish. First off, he sent me the large ones by mistake, them a free bag of smaller ones. Wish I hadn't put those in.

I don't want to eradicate and start over. Just feels wrong.

Yes, I'm aware that what um doing probably won't work. I just want to try. Maybe if I fertilize more, or get the water in better shape, some of this will take hold. I did harvest some, so hopefully that helps.

Yes, she is helping me with harvest.

Also, yes she has spawned numerous times, but I would like her to spawn as much as possible while also catching her occasionally if I can.

I was totally with you about eradicating our pond when we bought it May 1 of this year, I fished it for 30 days before closing and caught a few small, stunted fish. I really didn’t think much was in there, the plan was similar to what you are doing, let’s add a bunch of forage, add some LMB and watch them grow. In 3-5 years I will have a good fishery. I had spent a month reading on the internet, getting a plan together, had my fish sourced and was within 3 days of spending upwards of $8000.00 on fish when I got a call from Bob telling me to get in touch with a local fish biologist. That guy was at my doorstep 3 hours after closing and gave me some options. The pond is 5 acres, at the time it was 1-3’ deep and I thought nothing was in it.
After weighing my options I decided to start over, which is basically what you’re doing without getting rid of what’s already in there and man am I glad I did. As you can see in the photos, this is what was in the pond.
Not saying to go this route as I’m only 8 months into pond ownership but you may be surprised how many fish you actually may already have in there.
Start over fresh or start over with the unknown and try to money whip it.

Granted you probably don’t have Carp in the pond or the catfish which was creating an additional problem in my case
Approximately 6000 lbs of fish in a pond that I thought was almost empty
There were a few giant bass and a couple very large crappie but you have to ask yourself is it better to have a couple or a majority

Your situation interests me because I had the same thoughts and ideas in my head as you currently have

Another thought, electro fish it if you can. I don’t know the in’s and out’s of the process or if they can get a boat on your water but if 500 stunted bass pop up with very little forage then you know you’re fighting a battle you will never win.
You mentioned in another video that you neglected the pond for 10 years and wish you would have done something sooner, I’m sure you would hate to go another 5 and make no headway.

One of my goals when seeking out a property was to have a pond so my family and I could fish because we all love fishing. Even though that plan has been put on hold a few years while fish grow, we have gotten as much or more enjoyment out of managing it and seeing the changes as we would fishing it. We know exactly to the fish what is in there, what it does, what its job is, why it was stocked.
No guessing games,
The science behind this whole deal is very intriguing and it’s so much more than put fish in water and hope they get big.
End of the day a body of water can only hold so many pounds of fish. Do you want 1000 fish 1 pound or 100 fish 10 pounds ? We opted for the latter of the 2 options

My comment about 'tossing the fish back in the water' was not about whether the bass should be released back into the pond.

I meant actually physically tossing/throwing it back in vs. gently placing it back in the water and moving water over it's gills when you are resuscitating a fish after catching it.

I don't understand the mentality of posting on a public forum, then attacking folks who are trying to help you.

There's no single right answer to 99% of the questions that are asked here. The only answer that is always right is "it depends".

George Carlin said "Consider how dumb the average person can be. Then realize that half of the population is dumber than that."

Well said Theo

3.94 GPA through 2 years of undergrad and 4 years of pharmacy school at UNC Chapel Hill
Multiple people and advisers urging me to go to med school or major in something more substantial
Valedictorian of a 3A high school

Can post proof if you want.

Not the most impressive resume, but dare I say a little sharper than the average person, eh?

I've known some 4.0 gpa people that were dumb as a box of rocks and had no people skills on top of it.

The valedictorian of my hgh school class, when in drivers ed with him, was asked (with the car running and the hood open) "Your car is overheating, where would you put the hose to cool the engine down before shutting it off?" He pointed to the air intake hole on the air cleaner.......

As for people skills, well, lets not go there.

We aren’t talking about pharmaceuticals and med school here, this forum is about ponds and fish
You are either hear to learn or gloat 🤷🏼‍♂️
I personally feel that you have a lot to learn, not necessarily about catching fish but growing fish

I'm here to learn and have fun. I just found some of the replies to be annoying. I don't care about people skills, obviously. So, I'll be more subdued, post less, and just try to glean some nuggets of wisdom from an occasionally boring forum.

I have been slapped by better bitches than you.

It almost sounds like you are not getting the answers you are looking for thus becoming frustrated.
I do not believe everything I read but there are many years for wisdom from people on this forum, Some of which have seen every situation you can think of.
Lets be level headed for a second, use some common since and do some simple math.
You have stocked FHM, shiners and an abundance of crawfish along with some F1's.
We can assume you already have quite a few fish in your pond, Lets use a round number of 100 undersized LMB.
You stocked maybe 20 pounds of Minnows and 20 pounds of shiners, it takes 10 pounds of fish to grow each bass 1 pound
First off those F1's and forage more than likely lasted a few weeks before being consumed. They never had a chance to grow or reproduce.
In effect you grew each fish in your pond 6 oz and are back a square 1.
Even if a few did make it and were able to spawn, they were all quickly consumed.
If you were able to give all of your forage even 6 months to reproduce then you may be okay. That can never happen with an abundance of predators already established
Since your end goal is to mate your Large Female Northern with an F1 male you just put stocked. First off one of those males has to not get eaten, 2nd one of those F1's has
to become mature enough to spawn. 3rd that Northern has to live long enough to mate up with a mature Male F1. 4th some of those babies need to mature enough to be fun to catch.
The odds are stacked against you and you are looking at 10 years for that to happen.

End of the day, you don't go to a restaurant and tell them how to cook, you don't go to the mechanic and tell them how to fix your car. Why would you get on a pond management forum and not seek they advice ?

I get it. Uphill battle. You left out the fact that I have started harvesting some bass, and plan on fertilization or looking at water quality to increase nutrients. I'm not frustrated, and don't mmecessarily expect to have a ton of success. This, inefficient process of mostly spinning my wheels is fun for me. I don't want to eradicate and start over. You guys are taking this much more seriously than I am.

The fhm will not last long at all, I know that. They were to hopefully feed a few f1's if any of the f1's made it this far.

Tennessee dnr stocked f1's in existing bass lakes, and it seems to have helped. NC and VA are doing the same. I stocked my little body of water at a much higher concentration, and harvested bass (not enough) before I did so.

If it doesn't work, I'm fine with it.

Don't eradicate it then, Electrofish it and see what you have then draw up a more logical game plan.
You don't know what you can't see. You may be very surprised what is actually in that small body of water. I would also think that you would get some fun out of being
able to see what you really have. I know in my case it was a shock and eye opener to see what was underneath the waters surface.
I would bet your Predator base is much greater per acre than the lakes in NC, TN and VA that you speak of. I would also guess that the forage base in those lakes
is much greater than yours.
Stocking a pond where the fish are starving is much different than stocking a lake where the fish are content.

I know nothing about fertilizing because my pond is so nutrient rich that I don't need it. (maybe to much so) but don't you do that to help out the base of the food chain
for the forage to grow ? Assuming you are lacking forage than what is the purpose ?

From what I have read this is like dumping money into a slot machine where there is no payout.

Might do thar next year.

Forage base - yes, probably much less
Predator concentration- doubt it's as great as Lake Norman.

One last though, Have you thought about supplemental feeding to take the pressure off of the forage you do have ?

Yes. I was going to look into that in the next couple of months. When is the time to attempt that? Early spring?

I'm still new to this but here in Kansas we will start somewhere around late April.
I know there is a magic water temperature number that you are looking for but I don't know if it is 60* or 65* something in that area.
I also know to quit feeding in fall when the water temperature drops below that number.
I have come to realize that everything I speak with my pond management guys about is more in weight and temperatures, Not as much
about numbers and times of the year.
I.E. - In your case. You have taken out X number of fish, Is that 20lbs. or 50lbs. Same thing with the Calendar. Weather conditions are different all over the USA
It will also take a couple of weeks until you notice the fish feeding, Do it in the same place at the same time of day, every day

I couldn't understand one thing the OP was saying he sounded like Boomhauer from King of the Hill.......................

... Dang ole dang ole.

Yeah, doesn't bother me in the least

Just saw this. Others are trying it (sure some promoting it are getting paid, but still....)
If it works, it works. If not, no biggie.

https://www.bassresource.com/fish_biology/stocking-small-bass.html

There is some further excellent reading in this.. For example, Eric West has a great article on stocking bass of a larger size which has some principles that apply to many other aspects of this. Carrying capacity, forage availability and the one factor that I find in my experience, controls even more- Environmental factors-we can't manipulate this like we can other aspects.

Ewest seems knowledgeable AND personable. I enjoy reading his posts