Pond Boss Forums AQUATIC VEGETATION Controlling unwanted plants Controlling weeds in my new 5 acre lake

We dug a 5 acre lake here in northern Indiana 2 years ago and I have been adding pond dye as it has been filling. We haven't stocked it with fish yet but when it's full I am planning on adding some to help with the bugs and weeds (open to recommendations!) It still has about 3 feet to go before it's full. As the water has risen, many of the weeds on the banks are now submerged and appear to still be living. I can also see some submerged algae in some places along the shore. And it appears cattails are starting to shoot up in various places. Looking for advice on what you all would suggest for herbicides to control the green stuff. I was originally going to use copper sulfate to control the algae but it seems there are a lot of folks who are telling me that is a poor choice since it can't break down and will leave the bottom sterile and could actually create additional phosphorus in the process. So I was thinking that I could use Cutrine Plus (granules) or Duiron for the algae but maybe you guys recommend something different? And for the underwater weeds would Diquat herbacide be the best choice? Would that also kill the cattails or do I need to use RoundUp for that? I'll take any advice you guys can give me!

Cutrine Plus, either liquid or granules is what I'd recommend for the algae. There are other algaecides on the market, but those are the most commonly used and the easiest on the wallet. To my knowledge, Duiron isn't rated for pond use any more so it is illegal to use in ponds or waterways. Same with Roundup. Roundup per se isn't rated for use in or near water, but Rodeo that has the same active ingredient, is. You can also use Habitat, and Clearcast for the cattails.

I would NOT kill all the underwater weeds, as leaving them in the pond will help utilize the nutrients that are in there, and you will have less algae problems the more vascular plants that are growing in the pond. The plants will also be habitat for the fish.

The submerged weeds along the bank will die sooner or later unless they are the type that can survive in the littoral zone of the body of water (BOW).

What are your fishery goals? It would be best to put forage fish in now or asap as they are available to let them grow and populate the pond before adding the predators.

Ok good to know. I heard that the crystals are better for the algae that is growing on the rocks whereas the liquid is better for the floating surface algae. I didn't realize that Duiron isn't supposed to be used in ponds. Is it considered toxic or what is the reason? As far as Roundup goes, I was planning on using the Roundup Custom which I thought is the same as Rodeo. To my knowledge, I thought it was the surfactant in the Roundup that is hazardous to the fish and why conventional roundup is not recommended.

Ok, I can leave the submerged bank weeds if that will be better. I just don't want to be able to see them so I may rake out some of the ones closer to the surface.

What do you recommend for the cattails?

The only fish I want for eating would be Yellow Perch. I would also like mosquito fish to help control the bugs. Then whatever you guys suggest to help control the algae.

The old saying "The label is the law" goes for aquatic herbicides. Read the label on a container, the 2nd or 3rd page usually tells you where you can and cannot use it. As to why a certain herbicide that was used before cannot be used now, you have to ask the EPA that question, I have no idea.

As for cattails, Rodeo that has the same active ingredient as Roundup. You can also use Habitat, and Clearcast for the cattails. those both have different active ingredients.

I just pull cattails, but a aquatic glyphosate herbicide will do them in. Have you added FHM yet?

Hmm. Roundup Custom is labeled as an aquatic herbicide. As for Rodeo Aquatic Herbicide, this product appears to have been discontinued by the manufacturer (per several websites I've visited). It's also out of stock at many places. I believe Alligare makes a product that is comparable to Rodeo.

Habitat and Clearcast are more than 3 times more expensive than Rodeo. Not sure why anyone would use that if the former is just as effective.

Can I use Diquat for cattails?

What is FHM?

FHM are fathead minnows. They eat mosquito larvae and in turn feed the yellow perch.

By the way, there's an interesting article in the current P Boss magazine about what kind of structure/cover is best suited for YP reproduction.

Diquat just gives the cattails a haircut, it doesn't kill the roots. You want a systemic herbicide. While the other two chemicals are more expensive, I've found that they work better with less re-spray needed. Of course being a different chemical and working differently on the plant, I have to be careful of translocation. I always add a surfactant @ 1 fl oz per tank mix gallon and also add an aquatic dye to show where I've sprayed. With the Roundup Custom, mix 0.75% solution and apply 2.3-3.75 quarts per acre of active ingredient. Since there is no surfactant in Roundup Custom you have to add your own.

After extensive product testing for EPA re-registration , it was found that Durion killed all or most of the entire base of the aquatic food chain and I think EPA considered it too harmful for a healthy pond ecosystem. Ruin the food chain = ruin the fishery AND the other many natural balances within a pond - lake. Here is an older discussion from the Pond Boss Forum about durion (aka Karmex). Note the results in the link below for animal testing using durion.

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=288581#Post288581

Here is something from the link where they studied the affects of Durion (Karmex) in laboratory studies.
A part of the article says - "" This chemical may also cause changes in blood chemistry, increased mortality, growth retardation, abnormal blood pigment and anemia, as seen in animal tests in the laboratory.
Some other symptoms show decreased body weight of offspring, wavy ribs, extra ribs, delayed bone formation, reproductive and embryotoxic effects. Other side effects include methemoglobinemia.""

Thus IMO if there are pets drinking the pond water with Karmex it could affect their health. This also causes me concern if there are children swimming in the water where their absorbent mucous permeable membranes are exposed to the water with the durion / Karmex dissolved in it. Usually the younger the animal or plant the more influence the chemical has on it. All the above is probably why it is not labeled for fish and recreational pond use!

Try this thread on Durion (Karmex) and ponds. Not a good idea as any plant that gets water from the pond is at risk. See post about 100-year-old walnut trees 100 yards away absorbing it through their roots any dying.

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=335208&page=1

So to confirm, you are saying that using Habitat and Clearcast both require treatments less often due to their effectiveness? Looks like you have your own company and sell some of these products. I went to your website and called and left a message.

I am extra careful anytime I use a "systemic" herbicide on our property.

I have treated hard-to-kill honey locust trees on my property, and had a very high kill rate on nearby trees where the root circumference of the treated tree just barely reached the root circumference of the distant tree.

I also work hard to keep that stuff out of my waterways when treating terrestrial plants. Who knows what kind of unintended kills that could produce.

However, when you need a systemic herbicide to do the job, you NEED a systemic herbicide!

Jadog, I do. I'll call you back in the morning. I was out in the field all day and with customers.

For cattails, you need a systemic herbicide. You can use Diquat, that will turn them brown in hours but they will grow back.

I am going to try the clearcast on my cattails. Got to try something. I will add a surfectant and also some dye to see what I am spreading. The stuff is expensive so I don't want to waste any. It has to be cheaper than renting an excavator. Plus - I think I wouldn't be able to reach a bunch of them and it is a little soft where the cattails are. Sounds like a disaster in the making! I am sure Home Depot wouldn't like that call - "Your excavator is stuck behind my pond - come get it!" Besides - how much would they charge me to rescue it!