It is that time of year again! To me YP are the most versatile, reliable, and hardy fish out there. They are also very good tasting, help clean up crayfish, snails, leeches, slugs etc, and very rapidly pellet train. It is also one of the only fish I know of that you can control population fairly easily by removing a portion or all of their eggs. But I digress,
I wanted to start the spawn tracker thread for 2023!
Please note your location, date, water temp or air temp if possible, and details about what side of the pond or how much sun exposure/shade in the area of the first eggs. Some idea on depth and what the momma used to lay the eggs on or around is also helpful. There are web pages that will tell you how many hours of daylight (photoperiod) you have in your area which is also an interesting possible trigger for laying eggs.
In 2020 it was a mild winter with early ice off. Snipe had the first eggs on March 7th quite early! Central Indiana it was March 13th
In 2021 it was member bcraley in Ohio and the date was around March 12 or 13, Fayetville, OH had them on the 16th of March. Ohio led the way in 2021. My pond around March 16 or 17. Dr. Luke in Iowa, March 20.
In 2022 I had several inches of ice yet on March 22, but Bill Cody had YP ribbons on March 17! JIMS SVT in Southern OH also had ribbons on the 17th. I finally spotted mine on March 24 in cold blustery conditions right after ice out.
No one has perch eggs yet??? Snipe had them March 7 in the year 2020. In 2021 the southern Ohio ponds all had YP eggs by now and central indiana had them on the 13th (yesterday)
I'm surprised with all the global warming that we haven't seen perch eggs yet this season. We had mostly no ice all year, an early ice out a few weeks ago then are in a cold snap with temps dropping into the teens tonight again so maybe that will slow things down again.
"I'm surprised with all the global warming that we haven't seen perch eggs yet this season."
Interesting!!! One could read that to mean it's because there really is no global warming, that's why yellow perch don't spawn earlier, sarcastically anyway!
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:" "She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
That wasn't meant to be political, just that we have had very strange winters lately with long stretches of open water, unusual warm and cold cycles, more rain than snow, no ice skating opportunities, greenish grass most of the winter with little dormancy and soil that barely froze in the top inch.
What that lack of typical frost and ice does to insects, or fungus, or crabgrass in my yard, or pests in my garden soil etc remains to be seen.
I read an interesting article that the maple sap run is WAY off this year due to 'global warming' and that soon maple syrup production will all have to shift north. The geographic areas that enjoy maple syrup production even extended down into Virginia traditionally but now the epicenter will probably move up north of the border into northern Canada. Even the epic production centers on the east coast may see their seasons drop off. Producers are having to jump in and tap trees a few weeks early to catch the early run.
We did catch the early run here and had a good run for a few weeks, then had cold, wind, ice storms, rain, then two weeks of bluster and occasional night time snow. We haven't warmed up enough in the day to start collecting again although today the buckets had a little in it. I figure we will probably boil this weekend and wrap it up after a strange year.
cc, no worries. I didn't take anything literal from your post. It just struck me as some text with various meanings, to various readers.
Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:" "She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."
It was my father in-laws birthday yesterday. He was telling me that the one birthday that he will always remember in Ontario Canada here was his 14th birthday. It would have been 1959 March 14th and he said it was 14*C here. Last night it was -7*C
"When the data doesn't match the model - the model is wrong."
Nobel Laureate Richard Feynman remarked something very similar.
When my dad began investing, he assiduously scanned the papers for the experts opinions, and followed their advice. After getting bloodied time & again, he questioned not only them, but all the conventional financial wisdom of the time. Often, diligent research into actual historical observations yielded quite different conclusions.
Cecil said he's seen some skeins in his big pond. Cody Note: I also talked to Cecil today. He had a thin skim of ice on the pond yesterday and saw YP eggs today Mar 16. Being at the same latitude I did not look for any eggs today. I will look Friday at my YP spawning branches.
2 things (that I understand) that must be present. #1-Water temp, #2-length of Day. If time of sun is right but water is too cool, it's delayed. If Temp is right but days are short-neeah--still seems to be a delay. #3-fish know something we don't and it changes every year-fish behavior seems to change as fish grow and like us, not all think alike. I know I said 2 things, but there's probably 50 things we may never fully have the answer to.. I think you guys know were I'm at.. haven't had time to go look yet, and 77 degs yesterday went to snow and 25 today. Probably single digits tonight but I will look tomorrow at the tumbleweeds.
At least 3 YP ribbons Friday morning Mar 17. Water temp was 45F. Cloudy and windy Friday air temp after dark was 36F. Ribbons could could have been there Thursday to match the spawn at Cecil's.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
Wow, Malinta OH, and wherever Cecil lives gets the price this year! I'm surprised that the south Indiana ponds, and the Kansas ponds aren't having ribbon action yet! We have blowing snow, wind and cold here. Probably another week yet I'm guessing.
"When the data doesn't match the model - the model is wrong."
OR.....the data is incomplete. How many new maple operations have come into existence during the previous 25 years? How about farming innovations that resulting in improvements in efficiency, and yield?? I didn't see that info on the graph? And where was the breakdown that illustrated yield/ per geographic locations within the maple belt??
No?
Well then, since the data posted is incomplete, then any conclusions drawn from it are highly suspect, to say the least. You want to know if the climate is changing? Really want to know? Then stop listening to the politicians who tell you one thing, and avoid the scientists who are claiming the opposite.... run down to the southern reaches of the maple belt, and check in with some farm families who've been sugaring for multiple generations. Ask 'em to show you "the wall"... the spot where their fathers and grandfathers have been writing the dates of "first run" and "all done" for decades. Take some graph paper with you and chart it out. You'll have your answer.
Whether one chooses to bring that graph paper back with them to show others, or quietly wads it up and chucks it into the firebox of the evaporator, will have absolutely no effect on what it plainly illustrates.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
"When the data doesn't match the model - the model is wrong."
OR.....the data is incomplete. How many new maple operations have come into existence during the previous 25 years? How about farming innovations that resulting in improvements in efficiency, and yield?? I didn't see that info on the graph? And where was the breakdown that illustrated yield/ per geographic locations within the maple belt??
No?
Well then, since the data posted is incomplete, then any conclusions drawn from it are highly suspect, to say the least. You want to know if the climate is changing? Really want to know? Then stop listening to the politicians who tell you one thing, and avoid the scientists who are claiming the opposite.... run down to the southern reaches of the maple belt, and check in with some farm families who've been sugaring for multiple generations. Ask 'em to show you "the wall"... the spot where their fathers and grandfathers have been writing the dates of "first run" and "all done" for decades. Take some graph paper with you and chart it out. You'll have your answer.
Whether one chooses to bring that graph paper back with them to show others, or quietly wads it up and chucks it into the firebox of the evaporator, will have absolutely no effect on what it plainly illustrates.
When I looked at the wall in the sugar shack of the Amish family that I get my syrup from, it showed the first run/last run dates had no correlation to the "climate change" theorists. And the writing on the wall went on for more than 25 years.
"When the data doesn't match the model - the model is wrong."
OR.....the data is incomplete. How many new maple operations have come into existence during the previous 25 years? How about farming innovations that resulting in improvements in efficiency, and yield?? I didn't see that info on the graph? And where was the breakdown that illustrated yield/ per geographic locations within the maple belt??
No?
Well then, since the data posted is incomplete, then any conclusions drawn from it are highly suspect, to say the least. You want to know if the climate is changing? Really want to know? Then stop listening to the politicians who tell you one thing, and avoid the scientists who are claiming the opposite.... run down to the southern reaches of the maple belt, and check in with some farm families who've been sugaring for multiple generations. Ask 'em to show you "the wall"... the spot where their fathers and grandfathers have been writing the dates of "first run" and "all done" for decades. Take some graph paper with you and chart it out. You'll have your answer.
Whether one chooses to bring that graph paper back with them to show others, or quietly wads it up and chucks it into the firebox of the evaporator, will have absolutely no effect on what it plainly illustrates.
When I looked at the wall in the sugar shack of the Amish family that I get my syrup from, it showed the first run/last run dates had no correlation to the "climate change" theorists. And the writing on the wall went on for more than 25 years.
Yep. That's why you need to travel south. My friend, I've been to your home, just like you've been to mine. I saw in an earlier post today where you stated it was 17 degrees. It was 34 degrees down here at the same time. Anyone up there pull some BG through the ice this winter? We maxxed out at 1.5"... never wet a line. Did you know that for purposes of tracking maple syrup production, the IDNR divides the state into North and South at highway 40? The latest data I can access right now comes from 2020, when their production figures show 24,139 gallons made. Of that total, only 1706 gallons came from south of US40. Southern Indiana is a world apart from Northern Indiana, as I'm sure you recognize. Now, I'm not suggesting that the end of Hoosier maple syrup is imminent. Far from it. There will be warm years, and there will be cold years... that's part of sugarmaking. But the evidence is clear to those of us in the southernmost reaches of the maple belt. Our maple seasons are trending earlier, and shorter. I tend to believe we are the canaries in the maple mines.
By the way, do you know what we southern sugarmakers call your region?........
Michigan! Lol! Hope you are well, Scott!
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
We are in SW MI and every year is different. Last year we probably mistimed the first little bit of sap run due to unexpectedly early run due to an early warm up. Then we never got the cold snap to start it back up again. I think all told last year we tapped about 20-25 trees and had maybe 20 or so pints. (we are primitive, just plastic taps and drop hoses and a few old school metal taps, and some 2 gallon buckets)
This year, despite a very strange warm winter, very little ice, and an early thanksgiving snow event and a few other short lived snow storms, we did much better. We had to jump out early again to get the taps in and catch the 2 weeks of beautiful sunny days and cold nights. Sap ran well during that time. Then it stopped, tried to start, stopped again and then stopped for good. We collected over a longer time this year and also tapped some more trees down the road at my inlaws place. I bought him a set of 20 'classic' galvanized buckets with flip up lids. He loved helping out this year! Our total tree tap might have hit 50 'taps' although some trees have 2 or 3 taps in them.
With his sap and ours, an outdoor fireplace, and a commercial gas stove in the basement to help 'finish' it, we did really well this year. We finished up just now and I think at last count we were right about 145 pints. So even though we couldn't skate or ice fish, somehow we had a good sap run.
Now to find a market for it! The kids load it up in a tow behind bike cart and peddle it around the neighborhood... Is there a better way to get it to people who appreciate it?
We have a lot of local craft beer and brewing establishments and more popping up every day. There is a small corner bar that makes hard liquor (Michigan Moonshine is the name). Would a small batch brewery or distillery have use for maple syrup in a small run of whatever brew they are making? I know nothing about alcoholic beverages so not sure if this would go in bourbon or whiskey or rum or whatever but I'd sure love to help them out and sell what I have.
I know our batches have a different appearance and taste then others, some probably from early syrup vs late season syrup changing taste but some may be from the exact mix of trees being used (they are maples, but not all sugar maples).
Sounds like another productive year for your family maple syrup crew!
Is there a little farmer's market in your area that opens up every other Saturday (for example)?
Your kids could help run the stand on a Saturday. First year sales might be a little slow, however the customers at those types of places like to become "regulars". If they loved your syrup this year, they might buy 10 bottles next year to give out as small gifts, mail to their daughter in California, etc.
Sounds like another productive year for your family maple syrup crew!
Is there a little farmer's market in your area that opens up every other Saturday (for example)?
Your kids could help run the stand on a Saturday. First year sales might be a little slow, however the customers at those types of places like to become "regulars". If they loved your syrup this year, they might buy 10 bottles next year to give out as small gifts, mail to their daughter in California, etc.
Good luck and have fun!
I have to give the Amish family that I get my maple syrup from an order a year in advance for what I want the following year. They call me when it's ready.
I have to give the Amish family that I get my maple syrup from an order a year in advance for what I want the following year. They call me when it's ready.
Sounds like you have become a "regular" for that family business.
I have to give the Amish family that I get my maple syrup from an order a year in advance for what I want the following year. They call me when it's ready.
Sounds like you have become a "regular" for that family business.
I bet they give you pretty good service?
It took an "in" from another Amish friend to get them to sell to an "Englishman". LOL He had to call them, and tell them that he gave me their phone number and to expect a call from Scott about some Maple Syrup. I will take them some deer snack sticks and venison summer sausage every year when I pick up the maple syrup. The first time I bought from them, I took some to them and they looked at me like I was a 2 headed snake. I gave them the grocery bag full of the stuff, they looked inside and looked at me with this quizzical look as if to say what is this? When they realized what it was and that I was giving it to them, not wanting to trade for syrup, things changed. LOL Yeah, when I go there, they have to take me back to the sugar shack so I can see how they are making it and they show off any new equipment that they've purchased the previous year. They collect the syrup in a roughly 1,000 gallon stainless steel tank on a wagon pulled by 4 of the biggest draft horses that I've ever seen.
We talk about how the year for them has been going, they ask about fish, etc. I am usually there about an hour or so.
Southeast Iowa pond. Did a walk around yesterday and there were no sightings of any egg strands. Our daytime average temps have been on the chillier side (40s average). Nights have been average 20s and 30s for the most part, so we are still working on achieving the desired water temps. I did catch a female YP and she was still full bellied. Once some decent warming starts, I presume it won't be long. I caught the one female YP and made a couple more casts, had a few perch follow the jig to shore, which was nice seeing with such cooler temps of water and air compared to expectations. I was done shortly after that, won't sample again until after they've done their thing reproductively speaking.
Finally we can report eggs in Michigan! I checked Friday evening and we had none, then didn't check again till Sunday morning and saw about 6 to 7 strands. We had rain all day Saturday so I'm guessing they went in over night between Friday and Saturday. The egg strands in most cases had a layer of fine silt over them which makes me think the rain and wind may have silted them over.
I'll put the date for 2023 as March 25, 2023!
Not sure if it is harmful to the egg strand to gently reposition them? I swirled a little water over them to wash the silt of and then redraped them up over leaves and sticks to try to get the best possible chance of successful hatch. I found it interesting that some of the individual eggs already had white on them. I thought the white color came many days later to indicate no successful fertilization but these are white already in some instances.
This year the eggs were pretty evenly distributed around the South, SW and SE corners and all in about the exact depth water, about 18" This year they also preferred to use sticks, underwater branches of my swamp buttercup bushes and flattened reeds that happened to be underwater as the preferred spot for laying eggs. Only 2 skeins were laying on the oak leaves in the south edge which is the usual favorite place.
I put in a few more branches and we'll see where the late eggs go. New ribbons seem to appear for a week at least after the first sighting depending on weather conditions. We have had a lot of rain, a little snow, some melts and the water table is pretty high so the pond edges are pretty much near full pool.
None in my Southern Ohio pond yet. My fish went in 2 weeks ago (hopefully all female), so that stress may have thrown them off a little. They all looked about like Augie's there going in. This weekend warmed up a bunch for us, hitting 60 degrees, so I'd guess mine won't be long.
03/27/2023 I walked the perimeter just in case any YP had strewn some egg strands and I was surprised at finding one. I was just there a couple days ago and didn't see any. In total, this evening, I found 3 different egg skeins in about 12" of water. I wasn't expecting it, so I didn't have anything to check the water temp with. I do know a large lake was 40 degree surface temp today, so I imagine the pond has reached high 40s. Strands were all suspended on grass a few inches off the bottom. Also, one strand was in the SE corner of the pond, and the other 2 were spaced about 15 yards from each other on the east shoreline. All 3 strands were about 15 yards apart or so. I did take some good 📸, but haven't mastered uploading from my phone. Be on the lookout, it's happening!!
I was surprised that a few of the egg strands were very shallow, about 12" at best and suspended up off the bottom. I walked around after work today and found no new ones. Sunday was full of changing weather, some wind, cold, some on and off rain and a little snow. Today was sunny, still cool but we'll see maybe more eggs tomorrow. I put out more branches.
Here are some photos of the egg strands I found in fairly shallow water yesterday on March 28th. It seemed as if the female perch had kind of weaved tunneled through the grass to help get the strands of eggs out and distributed.
Ponds around me last summer were as low as I've ever seen them be here in southern IA. I wonder if another pond I keep tabs on lost some of the bigger fish (BG, Crappie, HSB, LMB) seems as if it did maybe, but not total loss if any at all.
Bill Cody, is it Ok to gently move the egg strands? to reposition to better drape up over vegetation or branches or at least to swish some water over the egg strand to avoid silting and suffocation of each embryo?
Yellow perch egg ribbons can be moved around and lifted out of the water for several seconds. The longer the ribbon is out of the water the more drying that occurs and this lowers the hatching percentage. I remove and transfer ribbons each year, keep them damp as possible, and egg hatch is always good. YP Ribbons are pretty durable to movement and handling. Each egg is encased in a gelatinous covering that holds all the eggs together in the strand. . It does not seem to hurt the integrity of most of the eggs if the ribbon is torn or broken into segments - egg hatch still seems pretty good.
Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/29/2310:35 AM.
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
Pond water temp here was 44.0°F yesterday, today it's 44.9°F. That will go back down, high tomorrow will be 61°F, then snow flurries on Saturday with a low Sat night of 22°F. High on Sat *might* hit 40°F.
My YP have been spawning for 2 weeks now and IMO are now Apr 05 are done laying. YP spawn for me usually lasts 2 weeks. Cecil Baird at same latitude as me also had YP eggs back around Mar 21. Those eggs not laid will be absorbed by the females. I still see some very gravid females eating pellets. Not all females will drop their eggs. Not sure why.
One local 22ft deep pond I help manage had the YP just start laying eggs April 01 with surface water temp of 50F. Generally in my experience when water temps reach 54-55F the YP are done spawning. Anyone else see fresh YP eggs at 55F water temps?
aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
Bill I left on spring break to make a run into the hill country of the ozarks. Much more to be said about my trip through 'Misery' and into Arkansas, learned a lot but also have a lot of questions...
But during my 10 days gone, I came back and due to heavy rain events are about 1 foot higher on the banks and the water is a bit silted up. I can still make out the egg strands although they are now in about 24 inches instead of 8 inches of water. I did not see any new strands so either my female YP are mostly gone or we just didn't have many egg layers this year.
I have had less and less strands the last few years and even less fertilizing. But my original stocking was I believe in 2014 so they must be gone (can YP live in a small pond to 10 years old?) and some of the early years of reproduction must also be getting old and tired. We had not had many visible young YP in the shallows the last 3 years.
Time to make a road trip to Laggis again and start over.
I don't get time to fish. My kids fish as soon as water warms up and since the YP are crazy about optimal pellets, they come to the area where the kids fish like a dinner bell going off. They hit worms, corn, snails, just about anything. We usually catch the most active and usually the larger size YP as they are most aggressive.
The kids will only catch a few (4-5) and then catch a few larger shiners and then lose interest. We have not intentionally jigged on the bottom from a boat or targeted all areas of the pond with angling as a way to sample the population.
The YP are always catch and release. My plan since we have seen some very large female (12-13" and chunky) was to see what the egg drop was like this spring and then have a group fishing event and try to keep enough YP to have a fish fry. I figured if I"m going to restock anyway I might as well at least enjoy one good YP meal for everyone.
The smallest YP we catch is about 5-6" so that one is probably at least 2 seasons old. At night I usually see a lot of 2-5" perch just laying in the sand in teh shallows using a flashlight. The last two years haven't seen any of that size class so I don't think we had good recruitment or survival. I know my shiners (GSH and SFS) are probably really eating a lot of the fry or really small YOY as their population is very much going up.
The only other predator I MIGHT have (not sure) is I stocked a few WE just to see if we could dispel the myth that they don't do well in shallow ponds. I never tried to catch them and outside of a big 'V' in the water streaking through the shallows I had no idea if they were there. Last fall we had a big temp drop and a big rain where the pond took on a bunch of runoff all at once and the next day we had a few of the largest YP and 2 Walleye floaters. The Walleye were stocked at around 5" long and both of the floater walleye were about 14" long. There could easily be a few more walleye left and maybe they are cleaning up on the smaller size class YP.
I think I would have no problems keeping the YP going with a little more management.
1. I would have another predator species to help reduce the burgeoning SFS and the left over large GSH. They are probably what is keeping YP from successfully bringing in new classes of recruits. I'm sure adding 5-6 SMB would get things back in balance. 2. Stocking YP once nearly 10 years ago is part of the issue. There comes a time where you need a new round of stocker fish of the 4-6" size class to get things going again. I probably don't have enough males to adequately fertilize either. I seem to have lost the entire 1 and 2 yo size class. This could be from WE predation as well, I truly don't know how many WE I have and my pond size is small. I may have a handful of WE left. 3. I can feed adequately but I don't have adequate vegetation to protect the YOY. I can't seem to get it started, possibly due to polymer seal on the bottom of my pond. I'm just now starting to get some vegetation starting on the edges that are 1-2" deep when full and exposed when the ground water drops. The goal was to replant some duck potato that is just starting to leaf out in the ditches around here. My sedges and bunches of swamp buttercup are doing better. 4. My winter time experiment of sprouting pickerelweed from seed failed. I got to see little green shoots come out of several seeds but when I transferred from water medium to light potting soil they never made it. I will be sourcing some online or some other way.
CC- Regarding your lack of cover issue (natural cover); have you consider using artificial structure? I have driven several short pipes in the bottom not too far from the edge, and then I use large zip ties to attach varies types of cover every few seasons. This year I was blessed with some free Christmas trees. That will be the dense stuff my fry can hide in. I also have some sticks and branches type cover (looser cover) for the fingerlings and larger classes to graduate into. And we've got a few bigger trees, with large trunks, for ambush hideouts for my bigger LMB. ( It also helps an amateur bass catcher, such as myself, raise his catch rates when fishing near the bigger structure). Last spring, after my shock survey, I was again reminded to shoot for 20% structure coverage in my pond. I've also read that number in a number of threads on the forum here.
It sounds like you have a great forage base, and have an established YP population. Maybe better and more structure is the key?
Maybe the Pros can chime in.
In the meantime, I'll wear my lucky socks for you....
"Politics": derived from 'poly' meaning many, and 'tics' meaning 'blood sucking parasites'.
My YP are extremely late to the party.. Supposed to be doing night sampling for SMB but storms moved in so I tried to do some algaecide work this eve and low and behold I finally have my first visible ribbon of 2023. a big one but nearly a month later that what I expected.
![[Linked Image from corvettejunkie.com]](http://www.corvettejunkie.com/pb.gif)
![[Linked Image]](https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=19113&filename=image000002.jpg)
Southeast Iowa pond. Did a walk around yesterday and there were no sightings of any egg strands. Our daytime average temps have been on the chillier side (40s average). Nights have been average 20s and 30s for the most part, so we are still working on achieving the desired water temps. I did catch a female YP and she was still full bellied. Once some decent warming starts, I presume it won't be long. I caught the one female YP and made a couple more casts, had a few perch follow the jig to shore, which was nice seeing with such cooler temps of water and air compared to expectations. I was done shortly after that, won't sample again until after they've done their thing reproductively speaking.![[Linked Image from hosting.photobucket.com]](https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/r603/casemanaugie/20230322_182834.jpg)
![[Linked Image from hosting.photobucket.com]](https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/r603/casemanaugie/20230322_182847.jpg)
