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Been awhile since I posted, but gearing up for a spring project and wanted to see if I could get some tips on setup. I have already found some great information in past threads. It looks like Jim Wetzel would be the ultimate contact on this topic, but he has not posted here in several years. Regardless, here is a summary of my project:

Goal: Produce RES/CNBG hybrid for stocking my own ponds

Setup: 275 gallon IBC tote/tank. Combo pond pump filter that has mechanical filter, bio filter, uv filter built in, advertised as 660 gph.

General game plan is to catch parent stock from my ponds, and stock 1 male CNBG with 1 Female RES. I actually caught some parents this weekend with my castnet but need to further verify sex. They are sitting in a temporary tank while I give the IBC tote time to stabilize. I should have several months for them to acclimate before breeding temps arrive. I know I am going to have a bazillion questions but will just post a few for now.

Can anyone confirm male BG and female RES is the right combination?

Should I have more than one female?

Will I need to be prepared to try to move eggs/larvae/fry or is parent rearing pretty safe in this setup?

I am hoping the uv filter will keep the water clear for observation of prespawn but should I plan on disabling UV to allow blooms for young feeding?

Is a recirculating pump/filter going to kill larvae/fry? Should I plan to switch to aeration only?

Will post pics of setup and parent stock as I get them.


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Pic of RES attached
[Linked Image from dl.dropbox.com]

Last edited by ColdSpringsFarm; 02/05/23 10:23 PM.

-Jason
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I am no help to your questions but I will definitely be following your progress. The more pictures the better. Pictures of your setup would be awesome.


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Glad there is some interest! I will post pics for sure...although I wish this forum didnt make it so difficult! Took me 20 min to remember how to hack dropbox url to make pics show up. ;-)


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Since the better the body condition of the fish, the more eggs they will lay, and the more milt the males will have, are your RES feed trained? If not, how will you keep them fed while in the IBC Tote? Hatched BG larval fish typically swim up 3 days after hatching. At that point in time I'd yank the adults out of the tote. How will you feed the larval fish? I read a report where they studied larval BG and used a seine that had a 0.1mm mesh to capture them, how will you ensure that the larval BG don't end up in the filter?


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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What spawning substrate are you providing?


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
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[quote=esshup]/quote]

I cannot confirm whether the RES are feed trained. They have certainly had access to feed their entire lives but hard to observe with RES in pond environment. That is one of the reasons for trying to keep water clear until spawn so that I can keep an eye on feeding/health. I think the male BG will quickly take pellets so if I have to satisfy him and then frop some live food down for the RES that will be ok. I am feeding a pellet that has some sinkers so hears hoping the RES will go for those.
The more I think about it, will prob switch to aeration with sponge filter when spawning activity occurs. The pump will cycle the entire tank about 3 times per hour so that seems high risk for fry kill.

I need to research larval feeding. I have seen Brine shrimp mentioned but hoping I can find a commercial starter feed that will work.


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Originally Posted by Theo Gallus
What spawning substrate are you providing?

Right now considering something similar to Jim Wetzel setup from a previous post about tank breeding. Black pan suspended from bottom about 1 ft with small pea gravel.
Do you think nest site will be a factor for the female RES?

My original plan was to have several small breeding ponds set up by spring but it has been too wet for tractor work. In that environment I would have just let nature do its thing and be more hands off. Hopefully the tank will not introduce too many obstacles for success!


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Keep in mind that the fry will require natural food for a few days (they won't eat fry food right off the bat). So, you don't want crystal clear water. Also don't need high water turnover rate. Using a small pond with natural water and some RES of one sex and CNBG of the other sex will work. Good luck and keep us posted on results.
















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Was able to get the parent fish moved over today, thanks to my little helper! I took pics of the 3 fish as well as their urogenital region. I am going to post the pics of each fish in a separate post and number them in case anyone wants to comment on them specifically. Here is the tank and the chosen ones hanging out while the water temps equalize.
[Linked Image from dl.dropbox.com]

[Linked Image from dl.dropbox.com]


-Jason
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Fish #1 - Coppernose Bluegill - Male
[Linked Image from dl.dropbox.com]


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Fish #2 - Redear Sunfish - Male
[Linked Image from dl.dropbox.com]
[Linked Image from dl.dropbox.com]


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Fish #3 - Redear Sunfish - Female
[Linked Image from dl.dropbox.com]

[Linked Image from dl.dropbox.com]


-Jason
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If anyone has any thoughts on my RES sexing I am happy to hear the feedback.

Right now I am waiting on my pump/filter to arrive. I also noticed both fish were hiding in the darkest corner. The tote is semi-translucent and lets alot of light in. I have read that RES tend to be more light sensitive so I pinned some black plastic on one corner and covered half of the top with plywood.

Took a baseline water chemistry reading this evening:
Air Temp: 65
Water Temp: 55
PH: 7.2ish
Carbonate Hardness: 60-80 ppm
Nitrate: 0
Nitrite: 0


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On the topic of what to feed the fry, I am concerned about maintaining zooplankton levels for the first few weeks so I have been researching fry feeds. It looks like my particle size needs to be somewhere around 200 microns to start. I will probably have one or more of these on hand for supplemental feeding:
1. https://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/o...e-spheres/gp-100-200-micron-larval-diet/
2. Spirulina Powder
3. Chicken egg yolk

Brine Shrimp Direct has some nice options, I am just not sure how cost effective it would be because its hard to estimate how much feed I am going to need.


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This may help in calculating how much to feed.

https://onyxaqua.com/2020/09/06/feed-chart-for-1000-fishes-in-fish-farming/

You see how the feed size and amount changes as the fish change in size?

Last edited by esshup; 02/08/23 12:52 PM.

www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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Originally Posted by esshup
This may help in calculating how much to feed.

https://onyxaqua.com/2020/09/06/feed-chart-for-1000-fishes-in-fish-farming/

You see how the feed size and amount changes as the fish change in size?

This resource would be outstanding but I cannot seem to find the link to the actual chart. Am I missing something? I tried going to the youtube video but it is in a language I cannot understand


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Originally Posted by esshup
I do everything from my desktop, I absolutely HATE using my phone to do ANY of this stuff. So, it may be different for you.

[img]https://i0.wp.com/onyxaqua.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Feed-Chart.png?resize=750%2C352&ssl=1[/img]


Ok, I saw that image. The way the article read, I thought there was a diff chart for each fish species and was hoping to find bluegill on the list. Still helpful though, thanks!


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I had a milestone this morning. I had dropped 2 redworms and several sinking pellets in the tank yesterday with zero interest. First thing this morning the pellets seemed to be missing but the redworms were still alive and well. A few hours later I peek in and the worms were MIA and the CNBG was nose down as if looking for food. I threw him another worm and he sucked it in before it hit the bottom! Zero evidence of the RES eating yet.
Here is the video:

Last edited by ColdSpringsFarm; 02/09/23 11:39 AM.

-Jason
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It takes them a while to acclimate to a new habitat and start feeding. The more stressed they were getting caught/transported the longer it will take.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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Sexing RES thread.

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=493472&page=1


Look at the color variation. RES on the left.


[Linked Image from i5.photobucket.com]

...and redears, of course, on the left.

Top left is the female RES

Last edited by ewest; 02/09/23 03:57 PM.















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Originally Posted by ewest
Sexing RES thread.....

Thanks for posting this. I actually read through that thread a few days ago but intended to post it here.

While I am thinking about documentation, here are links to several sunfish hybrid studies.

Culture & Propagation of Sunfish & Their Hybrids

https://dr.lib.iastate.edu/entities/publication/6d425c79-50c1-453c-afb8-7ab87fd560d2
Hybridization of 4 Sunfish Species
https://iopn.library.illinois.edu/journals/inhs/article/view/165/125

Last edited by ColdSpringsFarm; 02/11/23 11:15 PM. Reason: Fixed first link

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Just finished reading "Hybridization of 4 Sunfish Species". It does not bode well for RESxBG cross in natural settings. Granted, there are is evidence in newer publications and on this forum that it does occur. I guess I am not above manual intervention if nature does not appear to be cooperating.

In other news, I purchased a few lbs of aquamax fry powder on ebay yesterday. I also contacted Purina to see if they have any information on particle sizes as nothing is listed on their site.

Does anyone happen to have this publication or have access to it?
Evaluation of Selected Commercial Starter Feeds for Sunfish Fry Culture
Gregory A. Dudenhoeffer,James E. Wetzel &Thomas R. Omara-Alwala
https://afspubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1080/15222055.2011.602259


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Originally Posted by ColdSpringsFarm
In other news, I purchased a few lbs of aquamax fry powder on ebay yesterday. I also contacted Purina to see if they have any information on particle sizes as nothing is listed on their site.

Try Optimal fish food.

Optimal Starters come in a range of sizes to fit your needs.
• Starter #0 is a powder designed for the first feeding of tiny fry. This line is useful for those who hatch their own fish.
• Starter #1 is a crumble line for fish that are too big for a powder yet still under half an inch.
• Starter #2 is a 1.5mm pellet and designed for fish in the 1-2″ range.
• Starter #3 is a 2mm pellet and designed for fish in the 2-3″ ranges.
• Starter #4 is a 2.5mm pellet and designed for fish in the 3-4” ranges.

Every species of fish has a slightly different mouth size and feeding challenges. The goal is to try to feed the largest pellet size your fish can eat.

For use in the first feeding of newly hatched fish. To minimize impacts on water quality, feed as much food in ten minutes as fish will consume. Feeding at the same time every day is suggested. For more feeding information and tips, visit optimalfishfood.com/feeding-tips.

https://optimalfishfood.com/online-store/

They are much more "hands on" than Purina and will answer your questions asap if you get in touch with them.


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One of the authors in the papers that your requested above is James Wetzel. He has two different 'handles' or registered accounts on the forum so maybe he will chime in.

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