Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations Yellow Perch Talk

Hardwood branches aren't dense enough.

Here are some photos of what I laid on top of the ice for YP spawn structure, they have now fell through and sank into the shallows for the YP to spawn in and around. I was happy to have had easy access to the stick tree you see in a photo as well as the cedar trees. I will be looking for ribbons come early spring.

Those will be good egg hatching areas for YP ribbons. They will float to shore when the ice melts which is good because the water is warmer there during spring YP spawn. If fry have a good survival percentage you should have a good year class in 2023. If not, something ate the fry or zooplankton was not abundant enough to feed lots of fry. Ice and water clarity look good so suspended silt should not be a problem for egg hatching.

You have LMB in the pond? Since I see you have green sunfish in the pond, trap as many as possible as soon as the water gets above 40F. Even 1" GSF love eating YP fry.

I stocked 9 LMB last summer. I do have the pile weighted down with cinder block, but on a 5 ft rope, so they have a little play as to where they choose to stay for good. Some of the other pile is weighted down directly too, so should be a little variation. The ponds clarity is very good. Has always had been in the CRP program all around it since the build, so not much silting, and cloudiness as I've seen in other ponds in the area. Trapping and fishing will hopefully take care of more of the GSF. I will likely provide pictures in April if I can find some ribbons/spawning.

Your anchored brush for YP egg laying could easily be too far offshore for you to see the egg ribbons. My water is pretty clear and i place all my bush for ribbon collection with bottom butts on the bank so majority of the brush is in 6" to 2 ft of water depth so I can find and remove egg ribbons. YP will readily come into shoreline water to lay the eggs. IMO your brush will collect egg ribbons it is just you may not see very many of them due to depth and deeply placed ribbons.

After the LMB spawn in the pond the high numbers of fingerling and juvenile bass will eat very high numbers of the 1" to 4" YP before they grow to the 8" harvest size. Larger bass of 13"-15" will be eating 5"-7" YP. Young GSF will prey heavily on the YP fry. Don't be surprised if you don't catch very many 9"-10" YP in 4 years. Hopefully the amount of habitat as brush and some weed beds will provide enough refuge cover to grow you some YP for tasty fish fillet meals.

My hope was that I got lucky and put only 9 MALE LMB in, equalling no LMB spawn, but unfortunately I'm sure there are a few females in the mix of 9. At this point I will try and catch some of the 9 bass and relocate them elsewhere and out of this pond, and with any luck, it won't be too late after a bass spawn occurs. GSF are still a problem, so stocking HSB may be what I revert to, to try and skew the four year outlook. Going to be an uphill battle, but it was from the start, and I'm pretty happy with what I've been able to achieve with the YP so far. Thank you for the advice on the spawn structure, I have read many, if not all your posts about it. I will have structure just as you have mentioned with the butt ends at shore for good viewing of ribbons, if avaliable. I was pleasantly surprised in the recruitment achieved in last years spawn, despite the abundant gsf. What I believe helped, is the amount of weeds beds that are around the edges of the pond. I'm sure the YP last year were using mainly the year priors ledtover weed beds that were and are still present. You can see the weed beds through the ice this winter even. Another interesting part to the whole YP pond equation is that I have pumpkinseed sunfish, ans they have achieved recruitment as well. Will be curious to see what role they will play with the YP.

PS will have the same effect as BG (other than high recruitment numbers). That is PS will eat very small YP and YP will eat small PS.

Unless you used a catheter on the LMB during spawning season there is no way to positively tell if the LMB are male or female. (Well, a DNA test would tell you too, but that costs more $$) If they DO pull off a spawn in the pond, then all bets are off.

Trying to catch 9 previously angler jaw jerked LMB will TRULY TEST your angler ability. Do some serious intense finesse fishing before the LMB spawn. If you can manage to catch all 9 LMB you could be on the Bass Pro angler circuit. By all means return and let us know how the bass removal goes this spring. This will be educational. One remaining bass will be okay in the YP pond. I have one customer with all perch and he uses harvest and 1 LMB to help control numbers of YP. Works very good for him.

PS will eat some YP fry but NOT nearly as many of small YP as the GSF. Plus in my experience PS are not as prolific as GSF. GSF are truly a PEST for most pond fisheries. I would also remove small PS until you know you have good spawns of YP. Then use numerous PS to help control numbers of fry and small YP. Annual small fish trapping will be a primary management effort as long as you have GSF in the pond.

I'm laughing a little at this, but in all honesty, it will be difficult to catch the bass back out of the pond, no doubt, and I will probably go down swinging. However, I do believe they have helped in ridding of numerous GSF, which has enabled for some target fishing/samplng of the YP. Without the help of the LMB, I wouldn't be where I am at now in the pond. Just a double edge sword in this case with the LMB. I just wish HSB were known to successfully be able to control the high, nuisance population of GSF as well as the LMB do, but no one could 100% prove this. It's just we all known YP and LMB will not work, period. That was my thought too, exactly, Bill Cody on the pumpkinseeds within the pond. Removal of LMB and small PS, and of course the GSF. Anything for the YP...do the YP really deserve this much consideration and effort? Yes!

Also, that is quite interesting in the one LMB per pond and harvest method for the one customer. Customer? What do you sell/offer?

#1 would be knowledge. He has a doctorate in Algal Taxonomy. If you want to know what types of and how much algae is in your pond, send him a preserved water sample. He can tell you. I'll let him fill in the rest.

Since I have lots of education in aquatic biology, all the locals call me the Pond Doctor. Thus as a side business, I help lots of locals manage their ponds. I have a long resume of my main business. Currently I routinely in the summer usually weekly identify algae for numerous OH and IN municipal water reservoir treatment plants and companies doing environmental surveys. I currently work with the local university for their algae projects and studies. This past year the university had me identifying algae from Lake Victoria, Africa. Lake V is a big one and is larger than each of the Great Lakes except Lk Superior. Previously have helped several other universities and Academy of Natural Sciences Phila.PA for algae studies. Also presently I am doing a long term study involving identifications of zooplakton, phytoplankton and attached algae aka periphyton from the Kootenai River Idaho. Other projects have involved identifications of all the Orders of benthic invertebrates and larval fishes. I stay busy!

^^ In other words he spends a LOT of time looking at things in a microscope.

Very good, Bill. Thanks for explaining. Lucky to have you with the specializations in these departments.

I wanted to strike up a question as we wait on warmer temps, just out of curiosity. In a let's say, 135-acre body of water, how many YP would need stocked with bluegill, LMB, and black crappie already present to achieve a sustainable YP population? Is there anyone that has done this size of such a stocking or know what it would approximately take in amount of YP. A lot to this, but I'm mostly curious about this scenario. If you stocked a bunch of pregnant and fat, female YP along with mature males into 50 or more acres of water how many would it take to have a sustained pop? Will most all the males naturally stick with the females and be there to milt and do their thing for the female eggs that are strewn in the shallows with that much water present for them? I know of a 600+ acre body of water that has a consistent, stable YP population, where LMB, crappie, bluegill, and walleye are all present. Kind of peaks some curiosity as to how close to the male YP have to be to successfully spread their goods on the eggs?

PPond asks " Will most all the males naturally stick with the females and be there to milt and do their thing for the female eggs that are strewn in the shallows with that much water present for them? " If you stocked a bunch of pregnant and fat, female YP along with mature males into 50 or more acres of water how many would it take to have a sustained pop?"
Yellow perch are group or school oriented fish. They usually relate nearby to each other. Usually for best egg fertilization and during a normal YP spawning event, often up to 8-10 or more eager males will trail along side of a swimming female that is extruding the egg ribbon or skein. As the ribbon moves out of the traveling female's body the males are providing milt to hopefully coat the ribbon in a cloud of white milt. Too few males results in a small and less dense cloud of milt and fewer eggs get fertilized. Thus some extruded ribbons can have varying degrees of percent fertilized eggs depending on how many attending males were present. I have seen some YP ribbons have 20% to up to 50% eggs not fertilized. Different eggs in each ribbon can have milt from different male perch, thus a ribbon can be fertilized with DNA from several males and the ribbon does not have just one set of genetic material from one male perch.

This whole perch spawning process is quite a bit different technique than the way sunfishes and bass spawn as with paired individuals creating a real high percentage of fertilization of each egg drop.

2nd Question; "If you stocked a bunch of pregnant and fat, female YP along with mature males into 50 or more acres of water how many would it take to have a sustained pop?" Well it all depends. What is the goal of stocking the YP? Bonus fish? See if any can survive in that water body? Provide more forage fish? Create a good catch rate that equaled the BG and BCP? A mixed bag of panfish as harvest? Numerous options are present.

One of the major limiting factors is - Is the habitat right for yellow perch and does the habitat promote survival of YP to harvestable sizes.

Second factor - will the competition factor for food and space be adequate for all size classes of YP to survive using the available food sources. Is there an excess for the new YP? Does the lake have enough food available to sustain a third panfish species? . Are the current panfish populations and the lake's carrying capacity of BG&BCP allowing enough food resources to be present for new individuals of YP.? I question if the niche requirement of YP will fit into the current carrying capacity of the 50 ac example lake's ecosystem. You don't just dump fish on top of a current full fish community or ecosystem and expect the new fish to THRIVE. Usually an established current ecosystem is at carrying capacity with current standing stock. Often if there was available growing space or room available,,, the existing fish would have already occupied this 'space'. There needs to be an unfilled niche for ANY new specie to really succeed.

Third factors are - Predation pressure, predator size class structure, and predator density in relation to habitat type and density. If the lake has LMB and walleye(WE). Both LMB & WE in my opinion do prefer to eat slender, relatively slow moving moving, more close to the bottom oriented fish, such as YP compared to eating can lid shaped BG & BCP who usually tend to live higher in the water column. If the lake has just LMB then predation would occur at just one "level". LMB and WE favor eating bottom and shallow oriented fish where all YP thrive or have a niche. IMO and experience,,,, LMB tend to be primarily day time active predators whereas WE are usually low light and evening / dark oriented predators - thus their big glassy eyes. YP are day active and vulnerable to LMB pressure. YP rest on bottom at night and are very vulnerable to WE predation. Thus with good populations of both LMB & WE, YP are attacked 24hrs a day - i.e. intense predator pressure. Will the current predators find it easier and more convenient to prey on offspring of the new YP compared to the other available forage items of can small lid BG&BCP? Forage density, predator sizes, their density, and amount or proper HABITAT / COVER are all important factors for YP survival with LMB and or WE. Lots of cover, often as submerged weed beds and maybe habitat diversity , IMO need to be present to allow enough YP to survive, reproduce, and grow to harvestable sizes.

Stocking Density - general rule is the more and larger ones that are stocked the better the chance some will survive. However many YP that you stock, IMO an equal number of similar sized other panfish species should be removed. Do it to make room for the new mouths to feed on a now increased amount of available uneaten natural foods.

IMO if lake conditions are conducive to YP survival stocking,,,, 10 to 20 mixed mature sizes ((5"-8"+) of YP per acre will allow you to see if survival in the lake is possible. Also in the right conditions stocking 5-10 YP as mature adults pre acre might allow a YP spawn their first spring. Another stocking option would be to add or stock YP egg ribbons or skeins into the lake's good habitat area. Proper Habitat then determines survival rate of hatchlings. YP can be prolific. The key amount to stock is to add enough for a YP spawn to occur before the stockers are eaten or die. Survival and growth of offspring will become evident in years 2 and 3 after initial stocking. IMO I don't think electroshocking is a good way to accurately sample and monitor YP populations because YP are bottom oriented, often in deeper water and electro-fishing does best when fish are up off the bottom in more littoral areas. YP IMO can be effectively sampled in large water bodies with fyke nets, gill nets and panfish angling in appropriate littoral areas and at appropriate times.

I feel very fortunate with such a response, thank you Bill Cody. I do know of one lake with WE present, as well as LMB, BG, and BC. Said like is 600+ acres. It must have certain habitat/cover for the YP to remain sustained. As for trophy size, it most definitely struggles, except one year was real good, but I believe heavy angling and the trophies drew enough crowd that it couldn't withstand it, as far as trophy YP. Very interesting with a 600 acre body of water. I appreciate this understanding and am just wanting to learn, and in turn and ultimately apply to pond YP. Hope others take something from this as well...I think they will.

Thanks for the compliment. No matter how big the water body containing a great or trophy fishery,,,,,,, the facts of mismanagement, lack of quality monitoring, and improper fish harvest will degrade any fishery.