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#553762 11/27/22 07:36 PM
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Good evening everyone and I hope that you all had a great Thanksgiving.

During this time off over the holiday I have spent many hours on YouTube watching the Pond Boss videos and have a few questions. In his videos he discusses the requirements for a pond to be productive which includes having "Healthy Water". I had the water tested about 3 years ago and I cannot seem to locate my results but I recall that lime was recommended. The fishery guy that surveys my pond and supplies my fish recommended that I not lime the pond because of the amount of flow through that I have so I have not. I asked him recently about fertilization and he strongly discouraged that as well. I have owned the pond for almost 4 years and do not think that I have ever seen a plankton bloom. Is this common or am I just missing something? I have a water clarity of around 40" and the water usually has a brown tint to it most of the year. I have been working on developing this pond into a possible trophy bass pond with fish in the double digit range. The pond is 5 acres and has a constant flow. The pond is always full. Maximum depth is around 9' with the majority of the pond being 5' to 6' deep.

Here's what I have done thus far:

2 Texas feeders feeding the forage. Been feeding 3 times a day for 2+ years and I have an abundance of all sizes of BG and shiners.
The milfoil was chemically removed last summer.
I have added lots of structure in deep and shallow water.
I have been removing all LMB 14" and under. I had the shocker boat remove around 60 LMB a couple months ago.
The fishery guy has recommended improving the genetics of the bass because of the poor growth habits of the current bass. He is adding 50 F1 bass 6"+ tomorrow.
I added 800 4 to 5 inch BG in the spring of 2021
This past year I have added around 3000 BG (all sizes)


Question 1. What time of the year should I have the water tested again?
Question 2. Is liming a pond with such a flow through a waste of money?
Question 3. Why have I not witnessed a plankton bloom?
Question 4. Can a pond with flow through not be fertilized?
Question 5. What am I missing?

Thanks,

Dean

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Question 1. What time of the year should I have the water tested again?

Now. That will give you a baseline when the majority of P isn't bound up in phytoplankton or plants. Test for alkalinity, N and P. BUT without alkalinity that is a minimum of 40 ppm, any nutrients won't be able to be utilized if the alkalinity isn't at least that high

Question 2. Is liming a pond with such a flow through a waste of money?

You never stated how much flow through the pond had. How much does it have?

Question 3. Why have I not witnessed a plankton bloom?

Possibly see the answer for question #1.

Question 4. Can a pond with flow through not be fertilized?

Sure, but if the alkalinity isn't over 40 ppm, then you will keep seeing the results you are having.

Question 5. What am I missing?

How old is the pond?

What is the RW of the bass that are in there now, and how big (in length) are the larger LMB now? How does the RW compare from this year to the previous years? Does the RW of the LMB stay consistent throughout the different year classes of LMB or does the RW vary greatly between the year classes? How is the BG population, when you say abundance, how many do you estimate and what are the size ranges? Are you seeing plentiful BG of all age classes? How many LMB are you harvesting every year (in pounds)? By adding 6" F1's, they could become food for the LMB that are in there now if there are LMB in there over 18"..... What was the reason why the fishery guy didn't want to add straight Northern or straight Florida strain LMB?

When you say abundant, how abundant? To get LMB to grow quickly, you want to have fish that are between 1/3 and 1/4 the length of the LMB in there, and at a ratio of 2,000:1 to 3,000:1 for the fastest growth. (forage fish to LMB)

If you were to estimate the amount of structure and cover in the pond in surface acres, how much is there? i.e 1/4 acre, 1/2 acre, etc. Is the cover made of things that have different sizes of openings in there or are they all one thing (i.e . brush piles).


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esshup #553773 11/28/22 09:04 AM
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Thank you for the reply esshup,

Question 2. Is liming a pond with such a flow through a waste of money?

You never stated how much flow through the pond had. How much does it have?

How is this determined? I have a concrete overflow that has a constant flow of water going over it.



Question 5. What am I missing?

How old is the pond?

The pond dam and overflow was reconstructed before I purchased the property approximately 12 years ago. I have no details concerning stocking.

What is the RW of the bass that are in there now, and how big (in length) are the larger LMB now? How does the RW compare from this year to the previous years? Does the RW of the LMB stay consistent throughout the different year classes of LMB or does the RW vary greatly between the year classes? How is the BG population, when you say abundance, how many do you estimate and what are the size ranges? Are you seeing plentiful BG of all age classes? How many LMB are you harvesting every year (in pounds)? By adding 6" F1's, they could become food for the LMB that are in there now if there are LMB in there over 18"..... What was the reason why the fishery guy didn't want to add straight Northern or straight Florida strain LMB?

The RW of the LMB range from 60% RW to 80% RW with most falling into the 70% RW. I have seen slight increases in RW over the last couple years but many of the larger LMB are considerably under weight. In Oct when I had the 60 LMB removed there were 2 LMB that measured 24" and both weighed under 7 pounds. All other LMD were 70 to 80% RW. The fishery guy recommended that we add some better genetics into the pond- F1 Bass. The F1 LMB will be 6" and larger. He stated that the BG population looked very good in all size classes with an exceptional amount of shiners in the pond. I witnessed the forage population as he shocked the pond. As far as poundage removed, I currently remove all bass under 14" and probably remove around 100 pounds a year. Most LMB that I catch are in the 16" to 17" size.

When you say abundant, how abundant? To get LMB to grow quickly, you want to have fish that are between 1/3 and 1/4 the length of the LMB in there, and at a ratio of 2,000:1 to 3,000:1 for the fastest growth. (forage fish to LMB)

If you were to estimate the amount of structure and cover in the pond in surface acres, how much is there? i.e 1/4 acre, 1/2 acre, etc. Is the cover made of things that have different sizes of openings in there or are they all one thing (i.e . brush piles).

The pond was build where a natural creek flows through the property. The upper shallow end is full of vegetation, trees, and fallen trees. I have added man made plastic structures, 3 large brush piles, and a colony of cedar limbs cemented into concrete block which stand up like Christmas trees- group of 6 spaced 6' to 8' apart. in deeper water.

Therefore, I would estimate that there is close to 20% structure with the majority being in the shallow part of the pond.

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Originally Posted by Deancutler
Thank you for the reply esshup,

Question 2. Is liming a pond with such a flow through a waste of money?

You never stated how much flow through the pond had. How much does it have?

How is this determined? I have a concrete overflow that has a constant flow of water going over it.

There are a number of ways to measure the flow in a stream.
1) Measure volume of water in a stream

or 2) measure the height and width of the water going over the concrete overflow and get a Price AA current meter to measure the flow. Maybe check with the local NRCS office to see if they have one or if they know where to borrow one. They run around $1,500 - $1,800.


USGS stream flow measurement



Question 5. What am I missing?

How old is the pond?

The pond dam and overflow was reconstructed before I purchased the property approximately 12 years ago. I have no details concerning stocking.

What is the RW of the bass that are in there now, and how big (in length) are the larger LMB now? How does the RW compare from this year to the previous years? Does the RW of the LMB stay consistent throughout the different year classes of LMB or does the RW vary greatly between the year classes? How is the BG population, when you say abundance, how many do you estimate and what are the size ranges? Are you seeing plentiful BG of all age classes? How many LMB are you harvesting every year (in pounds)? By adding 6" F1's, they could become food for the LMB that are in there now if there are LMB in there over 18"..... What was the reason why the fishery guy didn't want to add straight Northern or straight Florida strain LMB?

The RW of the LMB range from 60% RW to 80% RW with most falling into the 70% RW. I have seen slight increases in RW over the last couple years but many of the larger LMB are considerably under weight. In Oct when I had the 60 LMB removed there were 2 LMB that measured 24" and both weighed under 7 pounds. All other LMD were 70 to 80% RW. The fishery guy recommended that we add some better genetics into the pond- F1 Bass. The F1 LMB will be 6" and larger. He stated that the BG population looked very good in all size classes with an exceptional amount of shiners in the pond. I witnessed the forage population as he shocked the pond. As far as poundage removed, I currently remove all bass under 14" and probably remove around 100 pounds a year. Most LMB that I catch are in the 16" to 17" size.

The amount of bass you are removing is enough just to keep the status quo, with a RW that low I'd look at removing double that amount per year for the next few years. Any LMB that are added I would fin clip so that you aren't removing the stocked bass if caught.

When you say abundant, how abundant? To get LMB to grow quickly, you want to have fish that are between 1/3 and 1/4 the length of the LMB in there, and at a ratio of 2,000:1 to 3,000:1 for the fastest growth. (forage fish to LMB)

If you were to estimate the amount of structure and cover in the pond in surface acres, how much is there? i.e 1/4 acre, 1/2 acre, etc. Is the cover made of things that have different sizes of openings in there or are they all one thing (i.e . brush piles).

The pond was build where a natural creek flows through the property. The upper shallow end is full of vegetation, trees, and fallen trees. I have added man made plastic structures, 3 large brush piles, and a colony of cedar limbs cemented into concrete block which stand up like Christmas trees- group of 6 spaced 6' to 8' apart. in deeper water.

Therefore, I would estimate that there is close to 20% structure with the majority being in the shallow part of the pond.

This is a tough one to figure out from a distance, but I think you are on the correct track getting a water test done. Bob Lusk helped Richmond Mills up their fishery (a flow through system like yours) by adding a bunch of fish feeders and feeding the fish. That put a lot more nutrients in the water and even though they didn't adjust the water quality, the added food helped the BG grow fast. I would set up 2 Texas Hunter Feeders and feed a mixture of Optimal Bluegill and Optimal Bass food. I would also stock feed trained pure Florida strain LMB, and 2-3 years down the road add a Texas Avenger feeder or a Sweeney Bigmouth Feeder and feed the Optimal Hand Throw Pellets to the feed trained LMB.

Adding a bunch of lime to the pond might help, and adding a bunch of limestone and lime in the stream that feeds the pond might help a lot too, but until the amount of water flowing through the pond and the retention time of the water that is in the pond is determined that is a big IF. Once you get those numbers and get the test results from the water test then a plan can be formulated.

A bass needs to eat food that is 1/4 to 1/3 it's body length to maximize the food intake for the calories expended. It takes approximately 10# of fish to put one pound of weight on one bass, so you can see the battle you are up against. A 4.5"-5.5" BG is the size that 14"-19" LMB need to eat. There are between 60 and 99 pounds of BG in 1,000 BG of that size. You can see how the more bass are in a pond the more BG need to be in the pond for them to grow quickly. 16"-17" LMB that are 70%-80% RW are roughly 1.47 to 2.08 pounds each. So if you take out 100# of LMB that size you are only removing 48-68 fish. I would remove at least 2x that number of fish for the next 2 years and track the RW of the fish caught during that time. Even if they are coon food, that will help the pond immensely.

If you stock feed trained bass, they should have a FCR of 1.4 to 2.6 while eating fish pellets.

Feed conversion ratio (FCR) is the conventional measure of production efficiency: the weight of feed intake divided by weight gained by the animal.

With a good commercial fish food like Optimal you can see that it's cheaper to grow a pound of bass on fish food pellets vs. forage fish if you have to purchase the forage fish.

Talk to your fishery guy to see if he can estimate the amount of BG that are in the pond and the age class distribution that is in the pond. That should be an indicator of whether the LMB have enough forage to grow in the pond, or if a LOT more LMB have to be removed. Here is some data for you, you can run the numbers to calculate the amount of BG in the pond if you can get an idea of how many BG of what size he saw when electroshocking the pond.

BG
1"-2.5" 4-11#/1,000 fish
2.5"-3.5" 12-24#/1,000
3.5"-4.5" 25-59#/1,000
4.5"-5.5" 60-99#/1,000
5.5"-6"+ 100+#/1,000

So given those numbers, a single 17" LMB that weighs 2.08# will need to eat 100 5.5" BG to add one pound of weight, 170 4.5" BG, over 400 3.5" BG, etc. That is for ONE LMB. Now multiply those numbers by the amount of LMB that are in your pond and you can see what you are up against.

Feeding the BG a good commercial fish food will give them more body weight, which will allow the females to produce more eggs. More BG, the faster the LMB in the pond will grow.

Last edited by esshup; 11/28/22 03:20 PM.

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Hello everyone,

I have received my Water Analysis Report from the University of Georgia and need some assistance understanding what I'm looking at. Also, in our previous exchanges in this forum thread I mentioned that I have a lot of flow through in this pond. No one has explained to me how to measure this. Suggestions?



Thanks in advance,

Dean

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Last edited by ewest; 03/01/23 12:53 PM.















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Originally Posted by Deancutler
Hello everyone,
Also, in our previous exchanges in this forum thread I mentioned that I have a lot of flow through in this pond. No one has explained to me how to measure this. Suggestions?
Thanks in advance,
Dean

See my reply on 11-28-2022 above.


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Hi Dean. You are taking me back to my limnology methods class text book. For determining outflow of your pond you basically have to determine the cubic feet of water per second leaving the pond. 1 cu ft per sec is about 450 gallons per min. For a flow rate of less than 1 cuft/sec then gal per min is used. Obviously the volume of flow leaving your pond will vary widely depending on inflow, rainfall and watershed. IMO you should estimate the outflow several times during the year to get some sort of an average flow rate.

Simplest and easiest way to measure your pond's rate of outflow is to measure the time it takes for a float to pass over a selected section of outflowing water (channel). I suggest use 3, 5 or 10 ft of distance to time in seconds how long it takes for the float to traverse the distance. If the outflow channel water is deep enough,,, the best float to use is a fruit such as an orange that floats mainly under the surface or in the link below a capped bottle with weight such as gravel in it . Ideally you want the main part of the float to be under the surface because an item floating on top of the water will usually move differently than the deeper water. In your case you can use a surface float if the water is shallow. We want just a ball park estimate for you.

concrete overflow that has a constant flow of water going over it.

flow rate cuft/sec = ave width of channel ft X ave depth ft X 0.9 X float length tested as seconds for float to move through section

Example 2ft X 0.166ft X 0.9 X 2ft / 2sec = 0.59 cuft/sec - 450g/min X 0.59cfs = 265 gal per sec. (265X60sX60mX24hr) equals 22,296,000 gallons outflow per day

Pond volume 5 ac X ave depth ~4.5ft = 22.5ac ft. 22.5 X 325,850 gal/acft = 7,331,625 g. Retention time = 0.328 days or it is every 7.8 hrs

With this amount of retention time the pond will never develop a very big plankton bloom - too fast or too much flow through. Fish feeders would be required to grow a high quality fishery in this situation.

See the information in this link for several other ways to calculate flow in a small stream. Be creative. If the flow is not very large then try the stream blockage method and put a pipe through a dam that you build. Collect water going out the pipe in maybe a 55gallon barrel.

https://www.fao.org/fishery/docs/CDrom/FAO_Training/FAO_Training/General/x6705e/x6705e03.htm

Commentary - Dean - you say "I have been working on developing this pond into a possible trophy bass pond with fish in the double digit range. The pond is 5 acres and has a constant flow. The pond is always full. Maximum depth is around 9' with the majority of the pond being 5' to 6' deep." And " The fishery guy that surveys my pond and supplies my fish recommended that I not lime the pond because of the amount of flow through that I have so I have not. I asked him recently about fertilization and he strongly discouraged that as well. I have owned the pond for almost 4 years and do not think that I have ever seen a plankton bloom. Is this common or am I just missing something? I have a water clarity of around 40" and the water usually has a brown tint to it most of the year."


First thing to do is use the above information to try figure out an actual flow rate and retention time for the pond.

Second if flow is high then IMO you should pattern your fishery similar to that of Richmond Mill. First thing probably to do is add a couple fish feeders at 1 per acre (5 feeders for 5 ac). This will boost overall pond productivity that would be equivalent to a plankton bloom.

Thirdly get some good ideas of how to manage the fishery for your goals. You may want to modify your fishery goals based on realistic features or characteristics of the pond. We here at the forum could help provide some options for an improved fishery in your type of pond. I have some information that I can provide of what it takes in time money and effort to grow trophy bass. I see that B.Lusk has a new podcast for growing trophy bass. See link. Maybe you want to adjust your fishery goals based on the characteristics of the pond?

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/02/23 09:40 PM.

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To add to Bill's great post above,

4th: Test the water to determine the alkalinity. If it is below 40 ppm then a phytoplanktom bloom will have a hard time utilizing any nutrients in the water to thrive. That may be why you don't get a bloom. What is your alkalinity?

Richmond Mills uses feeders to feed the fish and put nutrients into the water (as feed that couldn't be assimilated by the fish) on a continual basis because the flow thru GPM doesn't allow the bloom to get established before the nutrient laden water is washed out of the pond/lake.


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Plankton normally does not thrive in moving water (rivers) compared to ponds and lakes. Plankton can grow well in rivers but generally it is a lot less than in fertile ponds and lakes. Generally the faster the flow or flow though the less plankton there will be present. Here is some additional reference information.

Background or Richmond Mill Lake.
https://www.fishing-headquarters.com/richmond-mill-a-success-in-small-lake-management/

Slab Lab Bluegill Pond with Sarah Pavin discusses some of the history of her 5 ac pond and her big BG project at time point 6:07. Interesting presentation. On this pond they have 1 auto feeder per acre (5 on 5 acres)

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Thank you for the information Bill. I will attempt to calculate the outflow of water this weekend. As far as feeders, I currently have 2 Texas Hunter feeders feeding Optimal 3 times a day 3 seconds each cycle. I have been adding BG steadily over the past year (around 7300). I have also been removing all LMB 14" and under. The RW of the LMB has been increasing but not as fast as I figured it would. RW of LMB is mid to upper 80% with an occasional one in the 90%. I have added lots of structure to the pond and feel that I have close to 20%.

I have watch countless hours of The Pond Boss and also his new Podcasts.

The water analysis that I received stated that I have a pH of 7, Hardness of 11 ppm, and says nothing about alkalinity.

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Dean, you can get cheap test strips from any pet shop that will allow you to test alkalinity. They are used for testing aquarium water. You can test it yourself. Or maybe Amazon, WalMart, etc. You may not be able to remove enough bass by angling alone. Think about getting a pond management company in there with their electroshock boat to remove all the small bass that they shock up. They can remove probably as many in 1/2 day as you can in more than a month, and they will be removing the ones that won't bite on a lure/bait too. That right there will help the fishery genetic wise. You want fish that will bite vs. ones that won't...........


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I'm following the discussion with considerable interest. Have 3 TH feeders on 7 acre pond, plus 1 feeder on 1/6 acre forage pond. Done well for my bluegill and HSB, but had trouble growing trophy bass. Lake record is 7lb, and that includes electroharvesting twice a year.

Would I do better putting more feeders on the pond, or should I increase feed intervals with what I have? I stock TSH and TP annually, and RBT in winter when they are available. Forage pond raises coppernose BG, which I stock in main lake in fall when rainfall permits. I have pure Fla LMB, F1, and NLMB.

Generally feed BG chow, such as Optimal or Aquamax MVP. Feeders tend to choke on larger LMB pellets.

Everything seems to grow pretty well except for trophy LMB. Maybe I'll need to accept that, I mean, 7lb isn't bad!


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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Thank you for the info on the alkalinity test Esshup. Last Oct. I had an electroshock done and removed 75 to 80 LMB. In November I had 50 Titan bass 6+ inches added to the pond. I have not been able to catch any of the Titan bass yet but plan to fish a little more intently so that I can assess their growth since Nov.

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Anthro - how old are your bass in the pond? More that 5yrs? Topping out at 7lb in a 7 acre pond highly suggests that that 6-7 lb individuals are hitting a food and competition growth wall. This is likely due to still too many bass eating the limited food base or to a lesser possibility the right abundance and sizes of food are not there or present at high enough density for those top end 7lb bass.

In East TX those bass if well fed should be growing at least 1 lb per year and better fed individuals could be growing 1.2-2 lb per year. What are the electro harvest analyses saying for number of LMB catch per hour? Electro survey should be capturing numerous smaller LMB per hour of effort (CPUE). IMO I would do two things: increase the number of feeders to 1 /ac or 1.5feeder per ac. How fast do the pellets get consumed.??

Dean - Often but not always when the total hardness is low the alkalinity is low. Usually the two parameters are closely related because both are express as CaCO3. Bicarbonates, carbonates, & hydroxides represent the major form of alkalinity and other small amounts of salts of weak acids can be present for alkalinity..Whereas total hardness is caused primarily by calcium(Ca), magnesium(Mg) & strontium (Sr). It will be interesting now to hear what the alkalinity is when your T hardness is 11.

Having to add BG or other forage to keep LMB well fed is a big sign there are WAY too many 'foxes in the chicken house'. In a balanced community the forage should be able to keep up or maintain good numbers without having to add forages.

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Originally Posted by Deancutler
Thank you for the info on the alkalinity test Esshup. Last Oct. I had an electroshock done and removed 75 to 80 LMB. In November I had 50 Titan bass 6+ inches added to the pond. I have not been able to catch any of the Titan bass yet but plan to fish a little more intently so that I can assess their growth since Nov.

Dean

Dean, excuse my ignorance, but what is a Titan bass? Is that a type of Florida bass?


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Bill Cody #555995 03/04/23 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Cody
Anthro - how old are your bass in the pond? More that 5yrs? Topping out at 7lb in a 7 acre pond highly suggests that that 6-7 lb individuals are hitting a food and competition growth wall. This is likely due to still too many bass eating the limited food base or to a lesser possibility the right abundance and sizes of food are not there or present at high enough density for those top end 7lb bass.

In East TX those bass if well fed should be growing at least 1 lb per year and better fed individuals could be growing 1.2-2 lb per year. What are the electro harvest analyses saying for number of LMB catch per hour? Electro survey should be capturing numerous smaller LMB per hour of effort (CPUE). IMO I would do two things: increase the number of feeders to 1 /ac or 1.5feeder per ac. How fast do the pellets get consumed.??

Having to add BG or other forage to keep LMB well fed is a big sign there are WAY too many 'foxes in the chicken house'. In a balanced community the forage should be able to keep up or maintain good numbers without having to add forages.

Thanks for post, Bill. I stocked FLMB in 2016, but they stunted due to lack of FHM (long story, short bass). Stocked Northern LMB in 2017 along with golden shiners, they likely ate most small Floridas. Started adding tilapia & rainbow trout in 2018/19, stocked F1 LMB in 2020.

Assuming few of the stunted original Floridas made it, that means my largest bass are likely the northern strain 2017 stockers. Thus, 7 lb probably about max size for them in a reasonably good environment. F1s were only two years old last year (2022), so unlikely any exceeded 5 lb. This year the best F1s might hit 6, I guess, maybe 7.

Best hope for a 10 plus is a cross between one of few remaining pure Floridas and the Northern strain in 2017. Maybe there's one or two, though for sure not a lot. All I can do is keep feeding, both pellets and prey!

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/04/23 10:46 AM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160




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Anthro - I do not know much about your pond history so help me with this. I am assuming the pond did not have any bass in 2016 when FL-LMB were stocked?? If you now think your "main" LMB are the 2017 northern strain as 5 yr old fish and some are weighing 7 lbs (22.5") equals 1.4 lb gain per year - IMO it is good okay growth. Thus if they grow 1.2lbs by Fall 2023 (6yr old) they should be 8.4lbs. If you can WORK to maintain good sizes and amounts of forage items for these larger bass and if they gain just 1 lb per year then in 4 yrs (10yr old) some should be 12 lbs – Great. That is success IMO and SO FAR you are on the right path. Lusk in his new podcast at time point 7:10 says most LMB do not hit 10lb until 10 yr old is “more normal”. If your LMB are 12 pounds at 10 yrs you are doing several things right.

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=activetopics&range=30&type=t

Have you watched Lusk’s new podcast for growing big bass?? At time mark of 7:50 he says your bigger 7lb+ bass can and NEED to eat big meals consisting of big food items for their meals; time 8:51. Your 7-8 lb bass can be eating 12”-14” bass – so they want big meals – IMPORTANT point to keep them growing at the 1 lb+ / yr rate. At 9:45 Bob says as the bass grow they need larger and larger foods for maintaining efficient growth of 1+lb /yr. Lusk says typical life span of FL-LMB will be 12-15 yrs (time point 7:15). If you do this right with bass 12 yr old some should be 12 to maybe 14 lbs. See my idea later.

Important for growing big bass is removing LOTS of smaller bass. Are you culling and working hard to remove the smaller 7"-14" bass using the RW guidelines to help allow or make available more of the APPROPRIATE SIZED forage fish to the remaining bigger bass? Bigger bass need bigger foods for proper efficiency of eating, body weight maintenance and growth rate. Do not over crowd your bass nor let them get overcrowded!. Remember for managing for big bass it means lower angler catch rates - it is a tradeoff; big bass having lower catch rates versus mostly medium bass that result in higher angler catch rates. .

Do you live at your pond? If yes and it were me, I would copy Bruce Condello’s fish growing method. Bruce fishes specifically for small bass 6”-11”. He might even catch and store some of these extra small bass in a live box or cage. With these small bass,,, he almost daily or daily hand feeds them to his biggest bass. To start this method, I would cut the tails off your small bass and at the dock maybe at first even stun them as you toss them into the pond. Your biggest bass will soon learn to wait there for your ‘welfare’ meals to them. This method if done regularly will put maybe 2 lbs of weight per year on these dockside ‘welfare’ bass. The method also puts your excess small bass to a very good purpose and use.

I doubt that all your 2016 FL LMB were eaten and not currently present because there should have been enough non minnow pond foods for those FL's that at least some of them survived and grew to 5"-8" in 2016 before the NorthernLMB were added in 2017. I think there is a very good chance that some of your now 7lb bass are the Florida strain stockers .


One more item. Lusk says 1/2 of all those stocker bass that you bought for stocking were "junk" as being male bass. These males will never grow to trophy size. The males are eating lots of valuable forage foods so do your best to get rid to them. Maybe try focusing on catching them off the spawning beds. during spawning season any thinner bodied bass are very likely a males. And when angling at spawning season also remove every smaller (10"-14") bass that you catch.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/04/23 09:18 PM. Reason: edits to improve text.

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anthropic #556002 03/04/23 11:26 AM
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Hello Anthropic,

The Titian bass are a type of LMB much like the F1 bass. Supposed to be a cross between the northern strain of LMB crossed with the Florida strain of LMB.

https://www.titanbass.com/

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Thanks, Dean. Sounds a bit like the Tiger Bass!


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Bill Cody #556042 03/05/23 04:03 PM
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Thanks for taking the time for the detailed reply, Bill! Perhaps you're right that a few of the fastest growing Floridas made it, likely by feasting on their brothers & sisters. If so, they should be getting large now. I was surprised to hear that they can live up to 15 years, always thought 8 to 10 was the max.

I do try to cull, with the help of electro-harvest. Normally about 250 per year, though it varies a bit. Unfortunately I don't live on the pond, it's an hour away. No question that it is underfished. Tilapia, threadfin shad, trout when I can find them, and golden shiners stocked most years. I've been scared to stock gizzard shad, which perhaps is a mistake if I want bigguns. Plus, of course, I feed pellets.

As you say, a true trophy lake involves a tradeoff. In my former profession we have a saying, "There are no solutions, only tradeoffs." Guess I want a more balanced pond, with an occasional giant but lots of action.

Thanks again for the references & sound advice. Maybe I should heed Shakespeare: Let not ambition mock thy useful toil.


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Anthro - If you want a "Guess I want a more balanced pond, with an occasional giant but lots of action.", then you are well on your way to have that. In a few years using your previous management methods you will have your goal. Trophy ponds IMO are over rated if you can regularly and often catch some 3-5lb bass. If you want more fighting action with nice sized medium bass use more toward ultra light tackle.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/05/23 05:07 PM.

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Bill Cody #556062 03/05/23 09:14 PM
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Hello Bill. I have attempted to calculate the outflow of the pond and do not think that my math adds up correctly.

The width of the concrete overflow in 14' and the water is 1/2" deep. An object floated 10' in 4.7 seconds. By using the formula you provided, I have calculated the outflow to be 43,459,200 gallons per day. Does this sound remotely correct?

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14' x 10' x .04167' (1/2") = 5.83 cu. ft of volume

5.83 x 7.48 gallons/cu. feet = 43.63 gallons per 4.7 seconds.

Divide by 4.7 seconds = 9.28 gallons/sec.

9.28 x 60 x 60 x 24 = 801,792 gallons/day

That is my math on the page Dean. Hopefully, that way if I did a term wrong someone can correct my error.

Good luck on your pond management. That sounds like a very healthy water flow rate to keep what you want IN your pond, and let what you don't want OUT of your pond fairly quickly.

Last edited by FishinRod; 03/06/23 02:10 PM. Reason: Edited for clarity.
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I agree with FishinRod's calculation. 801,000 gallons/day outflow for Dean's pond outflow. It will easily be 1 million g/day after rain events and the outflow depth increases over 1/2".


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