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#552605 10/04/22 04:11 PM
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I bought a property with a small pond this past June, I estimate about .7 acres. I am not sure how old the pond is. Probably about 15 years. I am starting from 0 in my knowledge of pond management. Just reading through posts on this forum has been a tremendous help.
[Linked Image]

About the pond: It is surrounded by trees, and there are even saplings growing on the dam. The fish seem to be BG, LMB, and CC. I’ll use bluegill and brim interchangeably below; that’s what I grew up calling them. The pond is about 8 feet deep at the dam end, with a gazebo over the shallow end, 4-5 feet deep in the middle. Entirely rain-fed. This is in central North Carolina, so the ambient temperature gets up into the 90s in the summer; I don’t know about the water temperature; I need to get a thermometer. Surprisingly, the water level stays pretty consistent (though I was just moving in in the summer, so haven’t observed the pond for an entire year yet). I’m thinking there must be a lot of runoff from the surrounding area.
[Linked Image]


Visibility: It seems to vary a lot. Just observing from the gazebo, in June it seemed surprisingly clear, other times nearly opaque. I’ve only recently learned about Secchi disks, so unfortunately don’t have measurements to give you yet. Will update when I’ve got more information.

The water seems muddy; no surprise given the carps, but if I scoop out a bucket and let it settle, the water clears.

There are beds in the shallow end, and I could see what I assume are bluegill fry swimming around the shallows in September.

In July and August we had some algae blooms, which I controlled with copper algaecides. The bottom is soft with leaves and muck. There don’t seem to be many fish, or they don’t bite easily. If I fish for an hour, I can catch a single brim or a bass on a good day. I’m doing catch and release for now. I sometimes see a film on top of the water, like an oil spill. When the aerator is running, the film goes away. Picture of the alga bloom below
[Linked Image]

Lots of frogs. I’ve heard there are crayfish, but haven’t seen them and don’t know how to look for them. We've seen a few migrating mallards fly in in the evening, and take off in the morning. I caught an alligator snapping turtle once when bobber-fishing for brim (he got off).

Here's a bluegill we caught. It's a bit larger than the typical BG we've seen.
[Linked Image]

And here's a LMB. About average for this pond.
[Linked Image]

My goals:
  • I want the pond to be a fishing pond. I don’t care about trophy fish but would want to maximize the number of bass and bluegill. For me, small bass are just as much fun to catch as large ones. If I were starting the pond from new, I wouldn’t have the carp but they’re there. On a really good day, I can wake up, make my coffee, walk down to the gazebo, and catch a bass before my coffee gets cold. I want more of those days.
  • Aesthetics. I want the pond to pleasant to walk around and boat on. I don’t like the mucky bottom, at least not near the shore in the shallow end. I’d like to be able to put in a canoe and not be sinking into a foot of muck or smelling funky smells while doing so.
  • Self-sustaining: I don’t mind putting any amount of work into the pond for now, but I want to at least feel like I’m working toward a self-sustaining ecosystem, not dependent on feed, fertilizers, or constant restocking. I’m open to having my mind changed here; if you find that feeding, fertilizing, or stocking is a vital part of having the kind of pond I want to have, let me know.
  • Not starting over: I’m open to changing my mind about my approach on most things, but I have no budget to drain and dredge the pond, and no desire to kill the fish and repopulate. When it fills up with sediment and turns into a mudhole, I’ll change my tune, but I think we’re a ways off from that.


My ideas:
Here are some ideas I have for improving my pond to meet the above goals. I’d appreciate any feedback; what seems workable, what seems counterproductive, what's more relevant to my stated goals, and what isn't, what additional information I need to make decisions, etc.

Aeration: I have a bubble aerator, which I’m now not sure was a great investment, given the shallowness of the pond. Right now, the aerator’s in the middle of the pond, because I didn’t get enough tube to take it out to the dam end of the pond where it needs to be. The pump is in my outbuilding and I’ve run pneumatic tubing down to the pond. It shouldn’t be too hard to run that out to the deep end once I get more weighted tubing. My hope for the aerator is that it will protect against fish kills, and that the agitation of the water will help in my efforts to de-muckify the bottom. I’m planning to be really cautious about how long I run it at first, since I don’t know how old the pond is or how much toxic stuff might be stirred up when I start it.

Physical removal of organic matter: I’ve been skimming the top of the water for leaves. I’ve also been raking up muck from the shallow end and carting it off in a wheelbarrow. It’s . . . Sisyphean. That’s the word. Sisyphean. I'm skeptical of the efficacy of commercial muck-reducing products; I'd be interested in hearing Next summer, I’ll see if my skimmer helps with Algae so I can depend less on algaecide.

Remove all saplings from the dam: Seems like this is a must, right? Trees shouldn’t be growing on the dam.

Remove some trees from the side of the pond. The leaves from the trees are a pain to deal with, but I have to say I like the shade and the cozy feeling of being surrounded by trees out on the pond. Right now I’m just opening up a few spots to fish from. Open to ideas here.

Add structure. I don’t think there is much structure in the pond, so I’ve made a small brick pile, and I’m working on some home-made structures. I figure artificial PVC-pipe-and-rubber-tube type structures are better than trees for me, since I don’t think this pond needs any more organic material. I’m thinking a mixture of complex structures to help the baby fish survive and simple structures as fish attractors.

Harvest the carps. I know zilch about carp fishing, but I guess I need to learn to catch and cook them if I don’t want them crowding out my bass and brim.

Add some plants on the shore. I’m thinking some arrowhead (duck potato) or similar plant could be good for the shallow end. My theory is they’d compete with the algae for nutrients. Not sure how valid that is.

Stock some more bass and bluegill. Once I’ve got some structure and the aerator going, I was thinking I'd maybe add some fish. No idea what I’m doing here. Could really use some advice about how to even go about deciding on this. If I’ve got the environment set up correctly, is there any point in stocking additional fish? Would I be just as well off going down to the lake (2 miles away) catching some LMB and BG and transferring them to my pond?

Figure out a cadence for harvesting bass and bluegill. Again, my goal is to have the maximum number of bass and bluegill, not trying for trophy fish. I like eating fish, but my main goal is catching them for fun. For my own enjoyment, I would just catch and release, but I gather that harvesting some of the fish is necessary for managing the pond. So, is there some rule as to how often to catch them, how many to take, etc, to ensure the maximum number are there at any given time? My limited knowledge is: maybe catch and keep the big ones, since size and quantity are inversely related.

Gravel and/or sand for the shallow end. I’m thinking I could get some cedar planks or cinder blocks, some kind of old carpet or geotextile, gravel, and sand, and make a sort of multi-level terrace in the shallow end. Sand at level 1 for a kind of beach, then a couple of lower levels of gravel for BG beds. They’re making beds in the muck bottom now, but maybe the gravel plus the complex structure would help more of them survive, and anyway would give us a muck-free area to put the canoe in. I take it I shouldn’t worry about bass beds too much.

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Welcome to Pond Boss!!


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Thanks!

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Congrats on your new (to you) pond!

Your links are broken (to me), so I can't see any pictures.

There are so many topics in your post, that it may need to be broken up into separate posts so that we can take manageable bites.

I would start with taking the saplings off the dam. They could create a catastrophic problem. Also, it is only going to be more work the longer you wait, so do it first. Lastly, I tend to have better tree kill rates on cut saplings when the herbicide is applied at the proper time in the fall.

When you match the herbicide to your tree species, see if there are any recommendations on the best time to treat.

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Thanks. I'll read up on posting pictures to the forum. The saplings are small enough to cut down and carry off, but I guess to get rid of the roots, I'll need to do something. Could you point me in right direction to find herbicides that aren't going to hurt my fish?

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I have the best results with cutting the saplings and then spraying the cut stump. (Adding some dye really helps you not miss any stems!)

Herbicide on the saplings on the back side of the dam should be totally safe.

I would check the rain forecast before treating the ones on the top and the pond side of the dam. However, if spraying directly on the cuts with the wind blowing away from the pond, then you should have close to zero drift into your pond. And if it rains a few day later, you should also have close to zero runoff into the pond. (For most common herbicides.)

Have you identified the tree species of your sapling volunteers? (Some herbicides work much better that others on some species.)

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Welcome. Agree with Rod about saplings but I believe I would nuke the lower 12 or so inches without cutting. Next, I would try to catch and eliminate the carp.

Bluegills are the backbone of the whole works. They have a rolling spawn that lasts until cold weather. I would PERSONALLY add about 1,000 3 to 4 inch ones. Bass will certainly get some but enough will live to keep it going.

Have fun with your new toy/money pit.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Thanks a bunch! Is there a best time of year to stock the BG?

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Always stock in the Spring.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Originally Posted by Dave Davidson1
Always stock in the Spring.


This is for bluegill. For other fish, Fall stockings are good also.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Pondotaku, welcome to the forum.

Just some bullet points.

Cut any trees on the dam that are smaller than 4" DBH (diameter breast height). IMMEDIATELY paint the stump end with Tordon RTU (I use a chip brush in a coffee can that has Tordon RTU in it, it uses less than squirting it from the bottle).

As for the muck, if you can get an excavator in there to remove the muck from the area that you want it gone, I would do that. Then replace it with pea gravel or sand put down over a layer of wide Geotextile fabric. Make the layer of pea gravel or sand a minimum of 6" thick.

What kind of carp? Grass carp or common carp?

As for stocking the fish, while stocking might be warranted, I'd see what next year brings once you improve their bedding area (the sand/gravel area).

As for cover in the pond, look at the archives. There are many suggestions for cover, but the rule of thumb is 20%-25% of the pond surface area has to be cover for the fish. 1 acre pond? 1/4 acre of cover for the fish, split between dense cover for small fish and larger openings in the cover for predators to hang out. You will get bigger fish faster if you feed a good quality fish food like Optimal Bluegill food. https://optimalfishfood.com/ Bluegill that are in good body shape will produce more eggs. If the fish are stunted, then it would be a good idea to stock new genetics, BUT you will need to thin the herd so to speak of what's in the pond now so the newly stocked fish don't become expensive fish food.

If you want big panfish, remove all the bass that are over 14" in length, and keep removing 15# of bass per year from the pond of all sizes.

In order of fixing your pond, here is what I'd do.
1) remove the muck, get gravel/sand in that area
2) add fish habitat to the pond
3) feed the fish to get them to grow quicker and get in better body condition.

As for aeration, just run the aerator during the winter when the pond ices over. Put the air station/diffuser head in 2' of water and leave it run so it melts about 10% of the ice on the pond. Running it at night is more important than running it during the day. If your pond doesn't get much wind during the summer, I'd run it in the deepest part of the pond at the very least from sunset to sunrise when the water temp is above 60°F, if not 24/7.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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Thanks a bunch. I'm a bit intimidated by the prospect of getting an excavator for the shallow end (I'm a life-long suburbanite, new to rural living in general) but I'm getting the feeling that I will have to do that. I'm skimming the leaves from the pond and shoveling muck by hand for now, and it's having approximately 0 effect. Any idea what that should cost, assuming it's practical? (I think a piece of heavy machinery could get down to the pond OK).

The carp are common carp.

I'm warming up to the idea of feeding the bluegill, so thanks for the advice on feed. Are there existing threads I should read about how much/often to feed?

My priority is having fun catching fish; don't care about size. If anyone has advice about keeping up the maximum # of bass and bluegill, as opposed to size, I'd be interested in hearing more. Or if that's not a practical goal, I'd welcome hearing that as well.

Also, I figure it's worth asking: what is the consensus on "helpful bacteria" muck tablets (muck-away, etc)? I'm guessing those are a rip-off; I haven't seen a presentation or literature from a university extension that recommends them, while every other intervention like aeration, herbicides, habitat, etc seems to get mentioned.

I'm still working on getting photos into my posts, but in the meantime I remembered that the realtor made a video of the property and it's still up on youtube. This gives you a good idea of the size and shape of the pond.
Pond video

Last edited by Pondotaku; 10/10/22 01:13 PM.
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The video looks very nice.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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First thing if it was my pond would be to get a tracked bobcat in there with a forestry head (Fecon head), chop up all the brush and trees that are close to the pond and turn them into mulch. All those leaves falling into the pond will create a bunch of muck.

The place looks great!!


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Beautiful place


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Beautiful place! like the gazebo out over the water.
I'm not sure where you are located, but possibly similar to here in central MO, the bluegill are in the tail end of their feeding period, they will pretty much shut off during cold weather, or when the water gets below a certain degrees, so don't be discouraged if they don't take to feed right away. they will start back up in the spring.
Somebody in here will probably know what that water temp is when they quit eating and start back up.


All the really good ideas I've ever had came to me while I was milking a cow.
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Thanks for all the advice. I'll be removing as many trees as I can; especially along the dam, and will probably wait till Spring to start any feeding. I may be stuck with the overhanging trees on the left side of the pond: I've discovered that the pond is a wood duck roost. I've been watching them barrel into the water every evening at sundown and disappear into the bramble, then take off in the morning. Don't think I can bring myself to disrupt that.

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embedded pictures in the original post are not showing up. Other threads have uploaded pictures that are empty placeholders still. Can a mod fix this thread? How about the bigger picture with uploading attachments not working?

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Originally Posted by canyoncreek
embedded pictures in the original post are not showing up. Other threads have uploaded pictures that are empty placeholders still. Can a mod fix this thread? How about the bigger picture with uploading attachments not working?

No mods can fix that, it's a UBB issue and the Pond Boss Administrative team has been notified, and they have notified UBB. How soon it gets fixed is the unknown, UBB moves at it's own pace.


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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Thanks for the update esshup.


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