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I think Oklahoma just did a great thing to improve LMB populations across the state, now allowing harvest of 6 daily LMB with only 1 over 16" allowed. I know we promote harvesting our ponds, now this gets directly implemented to our great bass lakes. Rule change started 9/11/22.

https://www.wildlifedepartment.com/fishing/resources/blackbass

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The current Kansas regulations are a creel limit of 5 black bass that are ALL over 15 inches.

Be prepared for some bodies of waters in Kansas to contain lots of stunted bass.

It should be a decent experiment to run to compare the Oklahoma results to the Kansas results.

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Originally Posted by Jambi
I think Oklahoma just did a great thing to improve LMB populations across the state, now allowing harvest of 6 daily LMB with only 1 over 16" allowed. I know we promote harvesting our ponds, now this gets directly implemented to our great bass lakes. Rule change started 9/11/22.

https://www.wildlifedepartment.com/fishing/resources/blackbass

This is long overdue. Glad to see the changes.


It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


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Pro bass angler Randy Blaukat hates the new Oklahoma regulations. He says there's no need to harvest small bass on public lakes (and seems to feel the same about private waters, too). Made a video just to denounce the whole idea. I like him & learn a lot from his channel, but don't agree on this issue.


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KVD weighed in on it as well, and also disagrees with the regulation.

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Originally Posted by FishinRod
The current Kansas regulations are a creel limit of 5 black bass that are ALL over 15 inches.

Be prepared for some bodies of waters in Kansas to contain lots of stunted bass.

It should be a decent experiment to run to compare the Oklahoma results to the Kansas results.
Rod, there's slot limits all over KS. Some are 12-15" go back, anything under or over can be kept. A couple are 13-18" slots. Kansas regs say unless otherwise posted, all black bass will be 15" to be legal. Reason for this is there are too many exceptions to list.

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With cell phones & replicas so advanced these days, I don't understand the need to keep large bass. They aren't good eating, after all. Seems a shame to kill such a rare beast!


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB & 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS -116




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I think the issue is 1 bass over 16" for tournaments... They have to get exemptions to allow the fish to be weighed. The term used is "returned immediately to the water"...

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Originally Posted by Snipe
Rod, there's slot limits all over KS. Some are 12-15" go back, anything under or over can be kept. A couple are 13-18" slots. Kansas regs say unless otherwise posted, all black bass will be 15" to be legal. Reason for this is there are too many exceptions to list.

Thanks for the clarification!

I was hoping you would pop into this thread to give more detail, and perhaps some of the reasoning behind the Kansas regulations.

The fact that you state there are lots of exceptions, makes me feel better that there IS NOT a blanket rule that is rigidly applied to every situation in the state.

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Originally Posted by Snipe
I think the issue is 1 bass over 16" for tournaments... They have to get exemptions to allow the fish to be weighed. The term used is "returned immediately to the water"...

I'm not talking just about tournaments. If I had the decision, would ban keeping LMB > 18", SMB > 16" in public waters. One quick picture, that's it.

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Someone please send that same idea to the MI DNR!! Northern lakes are marked by frequent catches of small-ish LMB and forage shortages. Catch and cull vs catch and release in the size under 14" up to a certain number would be great. Allowing to keep a few over 14" and up (maybe less than 5) would be a great addition in public waters.

I would think Kevin VanDam having grown up in Kalamazoo, MI would have a good handle on what most lakes in MI are like. Maybe he forgot as he mostly fishes southern tournaments.

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Originally Posted by canyoncreek
Someone please send that same idea to the MI DNR!! Northern lakes are marked by frequent catches of small-ish LMB and forage shortages. Catch and cull vs catch and release in the size under 14" up to a certain number would be great. Allowing to keep a few over 14" and up (maybe less than 5) would be a great addition in public waters.

I would think Kevin VanDam having grown up in Kalamazoo, MI would have a good handle on what most lakes in MI are like. Maybe he forgot as he mostly fishes southern tournaments.

Blaukat thinks that southern waters are greatly overrated due to the negative impact of overfishing. Lower pressure is why northern water catches are consistently better. Closed seasons for spawning are common up north, but almost unheard of in the south. And, of course, fishing continues in winter down south but not up north.

Last edited by anthropic; 09/13/22 03:59 PM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB & 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS -116




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Frank,

Blaukat has his opinion I suppose ... but I am willing to bet he didn't bother to read any of the DOW's justifications for the change. His mind is immovable which is just another way of saying we can't change his mind in light of any evidence. Here is DOW's reasons/justification

https://www.wildlifedepartment.com/outdoorok/ooj/new-black-bass-rules-proposed-2022

With more than 76% of the LMB coming in under 14" it's no wonder less than 1% grow bigger than 21". Blaukat evidently likes to catch lots of small bass ... and to be honest ... I enjoy that too ... but these regulations are NOT intended to increase catch rates but to give more bass the opportunity to grow large. In most impoundments it takes many man-days of fishing just to catch 1 LMB >4.5 lbs. Consider this excerpt from a paper I will later link:

Quote
In Georgia, it required a tournament angler an average of 305 h
to catch a bass 2.27 kg or larger (Quertermus 2013). Anglers were
most successful at catching fish of this size in Lake Seminole, need-
ing only 78 h to accomplish

So even the best, most competitive anglers have work at it even in a great lake like Seminole.

This is what they are trying to overcome:

Quote
Fisheries managers have struggled with effective ways to reduce
high densities of slow growing largemouth bass in small impound-
ments. In the past, the principle management strategy to address
this issue was to encourage harvest, but high voluntary release
rates of anglers and lack of harvest by anglers have largely elimi-
nated this option (Myers et al. 2008, Willis and Neal 2012). Also,
high release rates by anglers increases the likelihood of density-
dependent reductions in largemouth bass growth (Aday and Graeb
2012, Wright and Kraft 2012).

So these wise men, Dr. Willis among them, see catch and release of small overabundant bass as the major contributor to the problem of slow growing LMB.

The excerpts are from this paper.


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I see this as a high probability that "we" don't see what they see. Problem is, no 2 lakes are the same, but in most any lake-from the state's view- if you have a 15" limit, you're going to have high numbers of 14" fish. In a lake with 18" limit, 17's and down are the rule.
In KS, when they allow a change to cull smaller fish, it's a short-term fix for a problem they see coming in another species present.
They may not tell you that, but I've seen this from the "inside".
Note they also say high density, slow growing fish in small impoundments. I think it's also reasonable to suggest mortality goes up with size of impoundment as a rule.. more nest destruction, less favorable habitat, more adverse conditions..
Understanding what the target is through their eyes may be hard to determine.
I did catch a couple of things in Randy's video that still suggest his views are angler perspective and not biological perspective (both legit) but who knows??? Interested in seeing how this progresses.

Last edited by Snipe; 09/13/22 11:58 PM.
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They are, as fisheries biologists trying to balance on a knife's edge. Very hard to do in large waters that have minimal management options due to cost and other factors.
















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Snipe, do fishery biologists think about a maximum size limit, rather than a minimum? Most waters easily produce loads of 8 to 14 inch bass, but not so many 18 plus. And the bigguns aren't very good to eat, anyway. Wouldn't limits designed to protect the rare big girls be smart?

Last edited by anthropic; 09/14/22 04:09 PM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB & 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS -116




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BASS Classic has been held at Grand Lake twice. It brings in dump truck loads of $$$$. I'm sure OK's Fisheries Division will make this new plan work with tourneys, and still be entertaining.

Toyota and TPWD turned a slot lake, Lake Fork, into a whole weekend of BASS tournament fun and huge lmb hitting the stage by allowing one over the slot to be brought in, but all lmb caught weighed. At Fork, that lmb was normally over 8 pounds. The other lmb caught were weighed and released on the water. Tons of TPWD staff and equipment were on location helping pond owners and fishermen learn how lakes and ponds are managed, and how they can help them. I bet this didn't go unnoticed by other states.


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Not going to grow lots of big Fla or Fla cross LMB in Okla Res. or locations north of there, like in Lake Fork. Different environment. Concept could still work with a lake managed for lots of forage and limited predators.
















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I have a mix of pure Floridas, pure Northern, and F1s. Probably will stock a new batch of F1s every 2 or 3 years. So far my largest is only around 7 lb, but strongly suspect bigger ones are deeper than we usually fish. CNBG are in very good shape due to feeding, threadfin shad, tilapia & golden shiners also stocked, so there should be plenty of eat. Maybe the addition of artificial habitat will concentrate some of the bigguns where they can be more easily caught!

Last edited by anthropic; 09/14/22 09:18 PM.

7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB & 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS -116




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They just stocked 93,000 Tiger bass in Grand Lake OK...
I think it was to mostly to improve the lake's marketability to tournaments.

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Will be interesting to see the results ,or lack thereof, of the Grand Lake stocking. What size LMB were stocked?

From local articles about the stocking and somewhat confusing:

"ODWC Fisheries staff stocked 93,000 Tiger Bass fingerlings in Grand Lake. Tiger Bass are a true F1 Florida largemouth bass and northern largemouth bass cross. Tiger Bass have a better thermal tolerance than Florida LMB, but retain the Florida LMB growth potential. These fish will help increase trophy potential at Grand Lake.

This effort is made possible by generous donations from The Kevin VanDam Foundation ($5K), Oklahoma Wildlife Conservation Foundation ($5K), Flying Squirrel Farms ($10K), the Swank Family Foundation ($5K), Whiskey Point at Grand Lake ($5K), Southstone Construction ($5K), and Grove Convention and Tourism Bureau ($5K)

https://okwildlifefoundation.org/news/tiger-bass-stocking


Florida-strain largemouth bass can be advantageous, not only because they boost fishing interest in a lake but also potentials for tourism in adjacent lake communities. However, they’re typically less aggressive biters in cold weather, and young Florida bass have trouble surviving winters in lakes as far north as Grand."

Notice no State money involved other than time of ODWC personnel. Also see the pic of the habituation cages used to protect the fingerling fish.



https://www.fox23.com/news/new-tige...-o-cherokees/URIOUZTNLBEOVCWBABLDAXCSMU/

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Randy Blaukat's home water is Grand Lake, and he laments the decline of the fishery there. Complains about too many tournaments & LMB overharvest. In fact, Grand makes his list of very overrated reservoirs.


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB & 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS -116




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+1 to what Snipe said regarding each lake should have its own management/harvest plan. In the end, for this plan Oklahoma has to increase trophy LMB production to work, someone has to harvest the little LMB. Not sure this is going to happen anyway. Meathunters tend to focus on catfish, crappie, and bream.

As for all the fish bunching at just below the length limit. Yep. I remember my Dad's disgust after tripping to Canton Lake and catch and releasing the great majority of the WE he caught which he claimed were 17.75 inches ... just under the 18" legal limit. He was stopped from fishing three times by GWs and when he had fish they measured each one. I have never understood statewide length limits and I never will. I like water that is managed for a purpose.

Oh and slots? These were invented to remedy the effect of years of minimum length limits on lakes. Even so, a day on the water is always a blast. My father used to say, "You can't please everyone all the time" So maybe its OK to just enjoy the water with all its faults?


It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


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