Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Smallmouth?

Guess the smallies didn’t get the memo

Surely we can get Lusk to send out complimentary subscriptions of Pond Boss Magazine to a few select groups of smallmouth bass!

I think that is reserved for the first person to get SMB to reproduce in a clay bottomed, no structure pond while in prison.

Well I haven't heard from TJ in awhile...???

Bill Cody advised they would be fine but when all I could find was the 4 originals at 8 bucks a piece it was a "well you never know" purchase.

I know now, Bill was 100% correct, the offspring didn't take long to figure out "follow the crowd for free food". The originals are never really seen, maybe 2-3 times a year I'll get a glimpse when mowing or feeding but they seem hook shy without ever being hooked.

Fine by me, love having the addition and worth the money because "maybe someone will hook one" is always fun.

Yep.

Hopefully in a few years you can post a pic of a young person grinning ear-to-ear with a 4.5# smallie!

I have a small SMB/YP/RES clay bottom pond in central ohio. Originally stocked with 15 SMB, May 2019, I now have a 'bunch' of SMB. Last night I was messing around w/ a dropshot using a 3" berkly power minnow and caught severfal SMB in the 6-8" range (I assume those are last years fish?)

My question is how do you know when it's time to start culling and which fish do I cull? I know my stockers from 2019 are now around 14". I had one hooked last night but lost it before I could measure and weigh. The 6-8" fish seem quite healthy with rounded bellies. I still see plenty of forage in the pond, adding Golden Shiners seems to have helped w/ the forage base.

I've read that any LMB under 12" to cull, but given the slow growth rates of SMB, can the same be applied w/ success?

SMB are not slow growers in general. They will grow substantially faster than literature says if they have plenty of the correct size forage and decent conditions to include water temp.
The smaller fish indicate they have ample forage for a 6-8" fish but how much of the lower end of the food chain are they removing such that few forage items grow through to feed larger SMB?
A 4 year old SMB on adequate forage should be more than 1.2lbs other than in the most Northern locations.
A lot of the culling process is dependent of what you goal is with this fishery. If large SMB is your goal, we might be in trouble already.
If lots of SMB is your goal, then start pulling a few when they hit 14-16".. You probably need to pull a few 4-10" fish every year depending on pond size. But remember, a 8-10" SMB is sexually mature in most cases so you always need a few.
It would really help a lot to know the size of your pond. Based on 15 original stockers I don't want to recommend something that isn't in line with your desired goal.

bcraley, how big were your initial SMB stockers in 2019?

If they are 14" now, it does seem a tad on the smaller size, but like Snipe is saying, more details are needed to make better recommendations.

Pond is 1/3 acre w/ aeration and emergent plants. The SMB were 3-4" fingerlings in 2019 when I stocked them. I have low visibility during warm weather months, as in less than a foot, due to my 3 dogs constantly stirring the bottom off the pond. Which I believe to be a negative factor for growth rates SMB, but it is what it is as the pond is for enjoyment of the whole family. We hand feed MVP nightly, which the perch and some of the small SMB take.

YP, RES, GS and FH were also stocked. I have a healthy population of GS of all sizes and I think FH, but I need to get the minnow trap out and confirm. I admittedly haven't been very attentive to measuring and weighing fish as time has been limited the past two years. But I've been able to reclaim some of my time and I want to get back to active management.

My goal is to have 12-16" SMB. I'm not looking to grow difficult to catch trophies, but just a fun fishing pond that has healthy fish. So when friends want to fish, they catch... not just drown a worm.

I like your plants, what kind are those, did you plant them? I'm planning on putting in some american pondweed in my pond soon, hoping to pick them up this weekend.

bcraley, thanks for the further information. Water clarity may have had some impact on the growth of your 2019 SMB. They also may not have had ample forage to grow to their potential.

In my experience, I've found that SMB readily take to feed, so it's a bit odd that you only have smaller SMB hitting it. You could consider implementing a larger size feed to help boost some growth rates; this could 'force' a few fish into larger size classes that could change some dynamics in your pond.

Eastland - The stuff w/ the purple flowers is Pickerelweed. I introduced it 2 years ago via 6 plugs that I ordered from an online source. I introduced duck potato at the same time but that didn't' take. The Pickerelweed has spread, but only in the very shallow areas. I'm in the process of killing off cattails in hope that the pickerelweed will fill in some of the areas that cattails are now occupying.

Sunil - Short of removing SMB (which I'm looking for suggestions on a culling plan based on my above goals), how would I supplement the forage base to have ample forage for the SMB to grow. Given I have established populations of YP, GS and RES?

Also when you say larger feed, MVP has several sizes. Are you suggesting jumping up to a much larger pellet like the largemouth bass size feed from AquaMax?

The bottom line is you can only have so many pounds of fish in "X" amount of water.
SMB of some number-usually very few-will eat pellets unless they were well trained when young. LMB seem to learn much faster as wild fish than SMB do.
If the water temp is 75-85 on the surface and you have 120-140 days between 50 going up and hitting 50 on the way down, your problem is the correct size/type of forage in good to great numbers is just not there.

I haven’t been to my place recently. Temps are averaging about 106. Yep, averaging. By the time I leave Fort Worth and 1.5 hrs drive there, I don’t want to go check on ponds. My trailer house is uninhabitable for about 3 hours. Riding around on a 4 wheeler with one pond being a little over a mile away isn’t my idea of a nice day.

I’m pretty well stuck in Fort Worth.

BCRALEY if you still recall the online source for pickerelweed plugs I'm still interested in trying it. I tried 'hatching seeds' over the winter and a few sprouted but none made it past the sprout stage. Looks like 'plugs' or small plants go for $12-$15 before shipping.

One site has 3 varieties of pickerel rush with pink, purple or blue-ish flowers to pick from.

I have had real good luck with Kester's.. been using their plant products for 4 years and have been really great.
Tip on arrowhead: fill a clear plastic 5-10gal container with pond water, add a pinch of miracle grow and set outside for 3-4 days in the sun, then put duck potato's (arrowhead) bulbs in there. Roots and stems will start, then plant in mud 4-8" deep..

https://www.kestersnursery.com/plant_price_list.htm

canyoncreek - I used https://pondmegastore.com/ for my arrowhead and pickerelweed. I remember that their pricing seemed high but not terrible. And as mentioned the pickerelweed has done very well.

canyoncreek, I just ordered this yesterday, best prices I have seen. We'll see how it goes!

https://www.etsy.com/listing/137189...1-1&bes=1&organic_search_click=1

I got a flat of 72 plants Pickerel from Wicklein's Native Plants [url=http://wickleinsnativeplants.com], at a reasonable price for a non-wholesale customer (charged an additional $0.50 per plant vs. wholesale for the flats). They looked good when the package arrived and have done pretty well in my pond. I also bought Iris from them.

Thanks for the helpful advice! DrewSh you are right, that is a fabulous price, about $1 each!

I'd like to try the pickerel rush but I have a pair of strongly foraging ducks working the perimeter of my pond night and day. It sounds like I might need to plant them in one area and then fence it off?

how deep do you plant the pickerel weed and can I plant them right away in the pond or must I prepare pots to let them get bigger first?

Snipe I'd like to see if I can get arrowhead tubers to grow as well but again not sure it would stand a chance with the duck action digging and foraging all around the pond.

In June, I planted 10 small (about 6 inches long) pickerel weed plants with rhizomes. I just made a hole in the muck with my finger and stuck the plant in it, as is, in about 6 inches of water. 8 of 10 plants seemed to survive and are now growing nicely with large leaves and developing blooms.

Ditch the ducks. They really make a mess in the pond, suspended sediment, etc., etc.

HA! The two (just determined one male, one female but couldn't tell before) ducks have been fabulous in every other way so far and they are the beloved prized pets of my daughter. There will be lots of tears if one or both disappear.

I have a thread post in my mind with pictures planned to describe to all of you fellow PondBoss readers our journey from baby ducks to the present and all the good and bad along the way.

Who would have thought they would be the best solution yet for my thousands of trapdoor snails!!