Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
linetta4, bored, Gerhardt, ctine2020, Harumph
17,878 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics39,962
Posts544,274
Members17,878
Most Online3,583
Jan 15th, 2020
Top Posters
esshup 27,001
ewest 21,126
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 14,413
Who's Online Now
3 members (MississippiBass, Snipe, Bill Cody), 249 guests, and 113 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
#551085 08/02/22 10:03 PM
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 11
K
Ken77 Offline OP
OP Offline
K
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 11
Anyone know where I can locate 50 to 100 SMB fingerlings for a pond in Northern VA. Bluegill and Perch have been getting established over last two years and getting desperate as local hatchery Zetts hasn't had SMB in stock both years. Will to pay a good price if someone with a local pond has some available!

Last edited by Ken77; 08/02/22 10:25 PM.
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,969
Likes: 135
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,969
Likes: 135
Zett's in Drifting PA has a limited amount of Young of the Year SMB.

Probably a 6 hour plus drive, for you, at least, but it's a possibility.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,413
Likes: 218
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,413
Likes: 218
SMB have proven numerous times to not control bluegill density. As predatory behavior, SMB will focus their main predation efforts on the more slender bodied yellow perch and tend to neglect the wider body BG to the point of prolific BG becoming over abundant and stunting can/will occur.

Reconsider instead of SMB, using LMB as a predator and then focus on removing appropriate sizes of LMB that produce the size of BG and YP for your goal. IMO it will be a real challenge to produce a high quality pan fishery using reproducing populations of both YP and BG without focused predation on the small 2"-3.5" BG. I think you may need to add hybrid striped bass with the SMB to try and control too many BG. As a result too few YP will end up as an occasional bonus fish will likely be the result. If the SMB-HSB combo does not do well at controlling the BG start adding 10" LMB to get the too many small BG numbers reduced and back to growing into 8"+ size categories. Eventually after several generations LMB will then be the dominant predator resulting in fewer and fewer SMB.

Pellet feeding too many over abundant small BG without adequate predation pressure and a focused small fish harvest often results in producing even more too many undersized BG due to more BG being reproduced and not eliminated from the community.

Great fisheries result from having the niches of predator and prey fishes matched or paired toward optimum feeding behaviors.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 08/03/22 03:56 PM.

aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
2 members like this: FishinRod, teehjaeh57
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,734
Likes: 49
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,734
Likes: 49
Per Cody above, this is exactly what I had to resort to - high density stocking of SMB and HSB to manage HBCP and BG populations and my YP suffered as a result - precisely as Cody predicted. Now I supplementally stock 8-10" YP when available to help maintain their presence.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,413
Likes: 218
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,413
Likes: 218
teehjaeh57 provides very good experience with SMB and BG-YP. Others here have similar experiences. IMO Plan and stock accordingly.


aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 27,001
Likes: 388
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 27,001
Likes: 388
Another option is to fish long and hard for the BG, and remove a LOT of them every year. A customer has a SMB/RES/HBG/YP/ HSB/GSH/HCP pond where some BG were mixed in with the yearling RES that were stocked. So far the BG are kept under control, the YP are pushing 14" and the HBG?BG are 10"-11". It's a 4 acre pond and he feeds around 1,000-1,500 pounds of Optimal BG/Bass per year. He's removing between 1,500 - 2,000 BG/HBG per year.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 11
K
Ken77 Offline OP
OP Offline
K
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 11
Thanks all, really excellent details and appreciate all the knowledgeable input! It has been a couple years but back in 2019 after sharing my management goals on a quality pan fishery of BG, RES, and YP I took away feedback that I should try SMB to ensure YP better odds of survival as the LMB predate even the largest YP. I understand with additional removal of BG through fishing our cast netting it would be a "challenge" but viable. So that has been my plan but have not yet found SMB fingerlings available. Based on the great input from above it seems like I would have to add HSB as well to have a chance of achieving this goal, and it would still be very high maintenance if SMB are less effective at BG control than I thought from previous communication (and I recall at the time there was some experimentation with SMB, so perhaps more "data" has come in since 2019!).

So all that said, I already have a situation that needs rectified as I added 400 mixed BG and RES in 2020 and 100 YP and pond is now in its 3rd summer and spawn season and YP already in the 12-14" range and BG 7-8" but many now in the 2-3" range. It seems I am wasting my time on SMB fingerlings at this point and should switch over to LMB and recognize the YP were probably never going to be super viable in a 1 acre (14 feet deep) pond.

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,413
Likes: 218
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,413
Likes: 218
You can have SMB and LMB together. What has to happen is you periodically supplementally stock SMB at 7"-9" every 2-3 years. In small ponds LMB bully SMB and for the most part keep the SMB from providing recruitment.


aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
2 members like this: Ken77, FishinRod
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,853
Likes: 322
F
Lunker
Online Content
Lunker
F
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,853
Likes: 322
I have fished a lake stocked in a somewhat similar fashion to what Dr. Bill describes.

The good thing, is that with low recruitment and LMB bullying, the SMB that you do catch should be nice big ones!

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,824
Likes: 280
S
Online Happy
S
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 1,824
Likes: 280
Originally Posted by Ken77
Thanks all, really excellent details and appreciate all the knowledgeable input! It has been a couple years but back in 2019 after sharing my management goals on a quality pan fishery of BG, RES, and YP I took away feedback that I should try SMB to ensure YP better odds of survival as the LMB predate even the largest YP. I understand with additional removal of BG through fishing our cast netting it would be a "challenge" but viable. So that has been my plan but have not yet found SMB fingerlings available. Based on the great input from above it seems like I would have to add HSB as well to have a chance of achieving this goal, and it would still be very high maintenance if SMB are less effective at BG control than I thought from previous communication (and I recall at the time there was some experimentation with SMB, so perhaps more "data" has come in since 2019!).

So all that said, I already have a situation that needs rectified as I added 400 mixed BG and RES in 2020 and 100 YP and pond is now in its 3rd summer and spawn season and YP already in the 12-14" range and BG 7-8" but many now in the 2-3" range. It seems I am wasting my time on SMB fingerlings at this point and should switch over to LMB and recognize the YP were probably never going to be super viable in a 1 acre (14 feet deep) pond.

Let me share the Kansas state record perch just came from a 1/2ac (going on 5yr old) pond that was stocked with 3-5" BG and RES, 4-6" YP, 2.5" SMB. Year 2 in went Saugeye in a very low number to help control small BG. Year 3 I stocked a half dozen WAE to be ready to replace a few SAE that I have now taken out, and I stocked 6 HSB at 9".
I regularly catch 12-16" YP, SMB up to right at 17" now and I am constantly culling 8-12" SMB and YP. I have 2 year classes of BG that are 9-11" and some 13" RES. It's very unique, it requires some hands-on, but make no mistake, it can be done.

2 members like this: Ken77, FishinRod
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 11
K
Ken77 Offline OP
OP Offline
K
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 11
Well, I ended up going to Zetts in PA for 100 SMB and 50 HSB to add to my 1 acre pond. Also added 100 Shiners to compliment the BG, RES, YP, and FHM added in 2020. Excited to see how this turns out and will do some trapping or netting of BG if needed. Will only add LMB if I boys and I absolutely cannot keep up with the BG.

Thanks all for the support to keep on to try SMB and the tip on Zetts in PA. Will be a fun experiment if nothing else, super excited!!

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,326
Likes: 102
D
Moderator
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Lunker
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,326
Likes: 102
Ive heard it said that only bluegills can spawn enough to feed bass and that only bass can forage enough to control bluegill spawning.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,413
Likes: 218
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 14,413
Likes: 218
Ken77 - By all means keep returning here to up date up on the progress of your VA pond with SMB and BG. Your results will be very helpful for all those interested in Smallmouth bass.


aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
1 member likes this: Ken77
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 11
K
Ken77 Offline OP
OP Offline
K
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 11
Absolutely! And I will definitely heed the suggestion on introducing LMB at a later date if needed. It will be a very interesting experiment for certain and greatly appreciate all the wisdom offered on this forum!


Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
Haywood, queenofthelake, SF Ranch, Torchy
Recent Posts
Introducing Native Bluegill
by Snipe - 10/01/22 08:37 PM
Northeast MS Lake - New Pond Manager
by FishinRod - 10/01/22 06:59 PM
Waterwheel powered aerator
by FishinRod - 10/01/22 06:33 PM
Clear Water Threadfin Shad
by catscratch - 10/01/22 02:54 PM
More Dam issues
by teehjaeh57 - 09/30/22 11:16 PM
Bluegill spawning sites
by esshup - 09/30/22 10:41 PM
Set up question
by esshup - 09/30/22 04:12 PM
fish jumping out of water
by nehunter - 09/30/22 08:04 AM
New Bois d'Arc Lake in North TX
by Theo Gallus - 09/30/22 07:52 AM
Best sprayer for large amount of lily pads?
by RossC - 09/29/22 07:22 PM
lime contractors in east Texas
by RossC - 09/29/22 07:15 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Possibly My Pond
Possibly My Pond
by retiredtom, August 23
Alien lifeforms
Alien lifeforms
by cb100, August 11
test
test
by Dwight, July 29
My possible pond site
My possible pond site
by ArbyTX, July 27
test
test
by Dwight, July 22
Male RES
Male RES
by Shorty, June 27

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5