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have so many white bass 2 to 4" the prop on motor shredding them as you drive through schools of fish pond or lake is 200 plus acres. Flat head catfish? Blue catfish? Northern pike? Tiger Muskie? Or Rotenone?

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Originally Posted by SetterGuy
This grove just popped up in a thick patch right at the base of the dam. I thought it might mean something, I guess maybe not. whistle

I agree that it MIGHT mean something.

Could be a small leak in the dam.

However, there should be "extra" water at the backside of the dam, solely due to the surface run-off from that slope.

Could even be as simple as the cottonwood seeds preferentially settling in the wind lee behind your dam.

Regardless of the actual reason, I would still cut and poison them. IF there is a small leak, those cottonwood roots will eventually expand the leak and pull water from your pond through their massive transpiration capability.

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Jeff, It's hard telling about your cottonwoods. I noticed a groove of cottonwood saplings at my pond just the other day, but they are growing at the inlet of the pond about 5 to 15 feet from the bank. It's not like the pond would be leaking there, just damp. I also have a huge cottonwood growing at the base of my dam along with a willow of similar size. They about 24 inches in diameter. They are real close to the drain pipe. The dam does not leak, but the water table is very close to the surface there.

I'll cut my saplings down as soon as it cools off this year just to keep an opening for wind to come through. As far as the large trees at the base of the dam...they have been there since the pond was originally dug (50's or 60's) and have not caused any trouble. No roots were discovers when the pond was renovated in 2016. They will stay for beautification reasons as I would bet the roots are going down to the water table and not up to the pond through the dam.


Fish on!,
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Originally Posted by canyoncreek
Days are heating up, harder to fish during the middle of the day. But my brother lives right on the Grand River where the kids can almost always catch bluegill, SMB, or even this crazy looking fish! Looks like the fish is eating well and was right under the swim dock (an old pontoon deck) Bowfin? Must be a reproducing population still in Lake Michigan and its watersheds.

The cameras out there show dozens of gar pike at night but still no success in catching those.

[Linked Image]

Looks like a Bowfin
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


"Gold medals aren't really made of gold. They're made of sweat, determination, and a hard-to-find alloy called guts." - Dan Gable, Olympic Gold medalist, wrestling
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Thanks for confirmation Dr. Luke. I also learned that the picture you posted above is a male fish. The male bowfin have the telltale black spot on the tail. They also do not get very large. The one in the picture above looks female although can't see the entire tail. The one in the picture looks big enough to be a female as well. I've read they are aggressive and can bite anglers just to be nasty. I hope this angler was cautious around those teeth! They are omnivores and often even show cannibalistic behavior. I'll think twice about swimming there with all those toothy gars and aggressive dogfish/bowfins... In reality the relatives have been swimming in that area for some time with no issues. Not even getting nipped by bluegill

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Originally Posted by BEPA
have so many white bass 2 to 4" the prop on motor shredding them as you drive through schools of fish pond or lake is 200 plus acres. Flat head catfish? Blue catfish? Northern pike? Tiger Muskie? Or Rotenone?
I would think there are plenty of predators to eat a good many of those YOY white bass

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Originally Posted by Pat Williamson
Originally Posted by BEPA
have so many white bass 2 to 4" the prop on motor shredding them as you drive through schools of fish pond or lake is 200 plus acres. Flat head catfish? Blue catfish? Northern pike? Tiger Muskie? Or Rotenone?
I would think there are plenty of predators to eat a good many of those YOY white bass

Tiger muskie are a great choice if summer isn't too hot. They don't reproduce & are very aggressive!


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Originally Posted by canyoncreek
Thanks for confirmation Dr. Luke. I also learned that the picture you posted above is a male fish. The male bowfin have the telltale black spot on the tail. They also do not get very large. The one in the picture above looks female although can't see the entire tail. The one in the picture looks big enough to be a female as well. I've read they are aggressive and can bite anglers just to be nasty. I hope this angler was cautious around those teeth! They are omnivores and often even show cannibalistic behavior. I'll think twice about swimming there with all those toothy gars and aggressive dogfish/bowfins... In reality the relatives have been swimming in that area for some time with no issues. Not even getting nipped by bluegill


Or called a grinnel. A buddy in Arkansas caught a 15# one while fishing for Largemouth just a few days ago.

If they bite an angler, I'm sure that the angler stuck his fingers in it's mouth. Usually fish stay away from larger critters than themselves if they can.


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The trickle 100 feet behind the dam of my 4th pond has dried up. If it was fed by a leak, the pond being down about 18" might have reduced the water pressure enough that the leak has really slowed down to the point where it does not make it that far, or maybe the leak is at that level either in the pond or the high spot in a sand vein. Or maybe the trickle was not the water leaking out at all. I don't have x-ray vision, so it remains a mystery. In the mean time, seedling cattails continue to sprout on the banks. Darn deer flies are a real pain! Been picking up a few deer ticks too. Our dogs are treated, but I always wonder if they bring some back to the house and they abandon ship (and we are the life boats)...

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"Or called a grinnel. A buddy in Arkansas caught a 15# one while fishing for Largemouth just a few days ago."


Thanks for the added information. I love that this odd looking fish has so many cool nicknames.

"other names are dogfish, grindle, grinnel, cypress trout, swamp muskie, black fish, cottonfish, swamp bass, poisson-castor, speckled cat, shoepic or choupic, and beaverfish."

I think my favorite one is Swamp Muskie.

If you have not yet been introduced to Ginger Billy's youtube clips they are hilarious, outlandish, VERY immature and at times uncouth. But he has millions of views and probably makes an extreme income by poking fun of southern hillbillies and outhouse talk. One of his clips was funny where he built his own swimming pool and turned himself quite blue after using a bit too much pond dye (see I was tying this back in to pond stuff eventually)


I can hear him already recording a new clip starting in his southern drawl:

'Me and my buddies are heading out to catch us some Swamp Muskie'

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The smile on that kids face says it all.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Was fishing today with a baby bass crank bait and hung a 6-7” LMB and was reeling it in and a hoss grabbed it next to the boat soaking me. She were a big gal…. That is fun when you get to see it happening. Poor little bass had most of the scales removed

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Originally Posted by Pat Williamson
Was fishing today with a baby bass crank bait and hung a 6-7” LMB and was reeling it in and a hoss grabbed it next to the boat soaking me. She were a big gal…. That is fun when you get to see it happening. Poor little bass had most of the scales removed

I have heard of guys pellet training their bass, but it is very impressive to train your big bass to scale and clean your little bass for the frying pan! grin

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Originally Posted by FishinRod
Originally Posted by Pat Williamson
Was fishing today with a baby bass crank bait and hung a 6-7” LMB and was reeling it in and a hoss grabbed it next to the boat soaking me. She were a big gal…. That is fun when you get to see it happening. Poor little bass had most of the scales removed

I have heard of guys pellet training their bass, but it is very impressive to train your big bass to scale and clean your little bass for the frying pan! grin

Not only that, the little guy probably had all the poo scared out of him. Less mess filleting!


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Originally Posted by anthropic
Originally Posted by FishinRod
Originally Posted by Pat Williamson
Was fishing today with a baby bass crank bait and hung a 6-7” LMB and was reeling it in and a hoss grabbed it next to the boat soaking me. She were a big gal…. That is fun when you get to see it happening. Poor little bass had most of the scales removed

I have heard of guys pellet training their bass, but it is very impressive to train your big bass to scale and clean your little bass for the frying pan! grin

Not only that, the little guy probably had all the poo scared out of him. Less mess filleting!
There ain’t no doubt about that!

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Driving around the SMB pond a couple times today, really noticed big schools of gams around the edge. Water is probably about 10" below full pool and not nearly as much vegetation in this pond as the last couple years. So I would assume the grass carp and/or the crawdads are doing their job of cleaning it up. Also the water has a nice green tint where the last couple of years has been so clear from the vegetation taking the nutrients. So I liked the water.

But back to the gams, as I drove or rode around the pond it would scare the gams and the predators were really working on them when they shied away from the shore line. Saw some mud swirls, several strikes and a few of the gams almost jumped ashore trying to get away. I've quit hand feeding the SMB in this pond since the weather has turned so hot, so I suspect they are pretty aggressive toward the bait fish.


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Spent the weekend literally spoon feeding my small BG. Stocked them a couple of months ago they were supposed to be 1-3" but when I got there they were all 1" or less they don't seem to be interested in food my Fhm will devour food chasing it around till it's gone. I am hydrating aqua max mvp and then mash it up then sit on the dock and drop a little at a time. Just enough that they clean it up in 10-15 seconds to try to get them to feed aggressively

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Went out in pond in boat to see if I could identify the schools of one inch fish in 3-4 bunches hitting the surface in groups 4-6’ diameter. Got close enough to see that there were thousands in each group. They were moving feeding so couldn’t id them . I had shad up until we got that freeze two years ago. Temp got to -1 and skim ice in surface so can’t imagine any survival of them….they surface late in the evening to feed. I have GSH also but never have seen their YOY in bunches. Also have LMB, BCP BG. Any body got any ideas as to what they are? Thanks

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Originally Posted by Pat Williamson
Went out in pond in boat to see if I could identify the schools of one inch fish in 3-4 bunches hitting the surface in groups 4-6’ diameter. Got close enough to see that there were thousands in each group. They were moving feeding so couldn’t id them . I had shad up until we got that freeze two years ago. Temp got to -1 and skim ice in surface so can’t imagine any survival of them….they surface late in the evening to feed. I have GSH also but never have seen their YOY in bunches. Also have LMB, BCP BG. Any body got any ideas as to what they are? Thanks

Try ripping a treble hook thru the school and see if you can impale one.


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Went down to the dock last night to watch bluegill eat bug off the "light on a stick".


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Great video - thanks.
















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Originally Posted by esshup
Originally Posted by Pat Williamson
Went out in pond in boat to see if I could identify the schools of one inch fish in 3-4 bunches hitting the surface in groups 4-6’ diameter. Got close enough to see that there were thousands in each group. They were moving feeding so couldn’t id them . I had shad up until we got that freeze two years ago. Temp got to -1 and skim ice in surface so can’t imagine any survival of them….they surface late in the evening to feed. I have GSH also but never have seen their YOY in bunches. Also have LMB, BCP BG. Any body got any ideas as to what they are? Thanks

Try ripping a treble hook thru the school and see if you can impale one.
Do shiners school like that? BCP?

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Golden Shiners definitely school up.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Ethan from Overton's came out, along with a couple of helpers, to deploy artificial fish habitat. Pond about 30" below full pool, lowest level I've ever experienced, but this was actually helpful in placement of structure.

Focused on dock area, fallen trees, feeders, and corners of the dam. Small "bushes" in shallows, "trees" in deeper water. Had to keep in mind that wherever would likely be 2' deeper in a few months.

I greatly appreciated the use of plastic "water lilies" to mark spots where fish habitat was sunk. Not every bush or tree, but every group. The lilies look fairly natural and are designed to adjust for water levels & minimize hangups.

Ethan remarked that in ponds with deep water, Florida LMB often seem to stay deep other than when spawning. This is especially so if there's not a lot of shallow habitat, which is true at much of my place. Hopefully the habitat will draw them up where they will be more available for anglers!

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More structure is almost always a good idea!

I especially like having a visible marker for the structure. I have caught lots of bass that I missed the first time, and then threw back into the same spot and caught them on the second chance!

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