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I just did a Draftlogic area calculation and came up with 6.87 acres of plants in a 18.55 acre pond. This is approximately 37% weeds (if I did my math correctly).

What's healthy? Is this too much or too little, or just right? Ultimately I would like to grow some big LMB.

I'm sure someone will ask so here's what's in it; black and white crappie, bass, golden shiners, bluegill, green sunfish, channel cats, bullheads, and probably some other random stuff.

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What plants make up the 37%? 37% of Potamogeton is a lot different than 37% European Milfoil.


"Live like you'll die tomorrow, but manage your grass like you'll live forever."
-S. M. Stirling
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Originally Posted by Theo Gallus
What plants make up the 37%? 37% of Potamogeton is a lot different than 37% European Milfoil.

That's a great question and one that I'm somewhat ashamed to not know the answer to. Everyone here calls it "coontail" but I have not done a complete id on it. Suppose I should do that this weekend...

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Originally Posted by catscratch
Originally Posted by Theo Gallus
What plants make up the 37%? 37% of Potamogeton is a lot different than 37% European Milfoil.

That's a great question and one that I'm somewhat ashamed to not know the answer to. Everyone here calls it "coontail" but I have not done a complete id on it. Suppose I should do that this weekend...

I had coontail completely take over my pond, growing from depths of at least 12' and spreading on the surface. For years it kept itself at bay, although it would spread as the summer came on, we could at least use some of the pond. Each year though, it got worse and worse. It was so bad that by June each season, our pond was unusable. You couldn't cast in it, couldn't swim in it and even putting a kayak in wasn't any fun. It was so bad that I was worried if a someone fell off our dock and got panicked, they could drown should that stuff wrap them up.

I tried raking it and maybe got a 30' x 30' spot around the dock yanked out and carted away while it took me a good portion of a day. It was far too much for us to treat with pesticides and we eventually decided to drain, dredge and start our pond anew, a decision I am so happy with now. This time we'll hammer on it if and when as soon as we see any of it again.

Maybe other people haven't had the negative experiences I've had with that vegetation but for me, that stuff is evil.

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Originally Posted by catscratch
Originally Posted by Theo Gallus
What plants make up the 37%? 37% of Potamogeton is a lot different than 37% European Milfoil.

That's a great question and one that I'm somewhat ashamed to not know the answer to. Everyone here calls it "coontail" but I have not done a complete id on it. Suppose I should do that this weekend...


Here's a good place to start to ID what you have: https://aquaplant.tamu.edu/plant-identification/


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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Originally Posted by Theo Gallus
What plants make up the 37%? 37% of Potamogeton is a lot different than 37% European Milfoil.


A suggestion or two (and a lot of research) has me thinking it is actually coontail.
So... should I be looking at trying to get some of this under control? Can I grow big bass at 37% coontail or should I be adding a triploid or ten in there? It seems there has to be perfect balance, just don't know what that might be?

Even though it seems to have been stable at this percentage for many years I would hate to have a scenario like what SherWood described pop up.

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I tried using grass carp and even had them in the pond to begin with as the coontail first started taking hold. I'd add more grass carp and it never seemed to help get things under control. A couple different times an otter would get into the pond and maybe they ate or killed the grass carp. When we finally drained and dug out the pond two years ago, I didn't see a single grass carp or fish of any size flush out or be left on the bottom. I only saw tons of small fish in the fields below us.

That stuff ruined my pond and I imagine it played a big part in a massive fish kill we had about 8 years before we drained it.

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Lochow Pond Management says 30%. I hate grass carp. Our lake is 70 years old. Grass carp stripped it of all native vegetation and invasive Alligator grass took over. Grass carp won't touch that stuff. I'm now trying to re-establish beneficial vegetation and even after 20 years I still have to fence everything to keep the grass carp from destroying it. Vegetation is the base of the food chain,unless you want to feed forever.

Last edited by RossC; 07/03/22 01:46 PM.

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Ross, I hear of many folks who've had bad experiences with grass carp. Overstocking is a real risk, and it is so tempting when you look at a pond or lake covered with weeds.

I got permission to stock grass carp, but hesitate to do so. Once used herbicide which was effective, though I prefer not to use chemicals. Tough call!


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If you get any of the invasive stuff you'll be spraying herbicides anyway. Grass carp live to damn long and in a 50 acre lake they are hard to eliminate. Some of ours are 5 feet long.


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Anybody tried fishing for the carp? I've caught a few over the years, though never intentionally. I've read about some very sophisticated European carp rigs to go after even old, wise fish. Cherry tomatoes are one of the better baits, or so I've heard. A five footer would be a blast!!!

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Originally Posted by anthropic
Anybody tried fishing for the carp? I've caught a few over the years, though never intentionally. I've read about some very sophisticated European carp rigs to go after even old, wise fish. Cherry tomatoes are one of the better baits, or so I've heard. A five footer would be a blast!!!


If you feed the fish pellets in the pond, and see some of them hitting the pellets, try this: https://www.stubbysteve.com/


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A buddy and I used to go fishing for catfish as teens. If the catfish weren't biting, we would then make dough balls and fish for carp.

We always had more fun when the carp were biting than anytime we fished for catfish! Even small carp on your ultralight spinning tackle is highly entertaining.

Rumor has it that some guy that looked very similar to me, may have once filled the concrete pond in front of his high school with 5-6# carp.

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Originally Posted by anthropic
Ross, I hear of many folks who've had bad experiences with grass carp. Overstocking is a real risk, and it is so tempting when you look at a pond or lake covered with weeds.

I got permission to stock grass carp, but hesitate to do so. Once used herbicide which was effective, though I prefer not to use chemicals. Tough call!

Grass carp are never an issue. But, a pond owners incorrect stocking of them can be a really big issue.

I would never stock GC at a rate that eliminated the targeted plant. If the GC do their job, then the potential for turbid water is extremely high. Think control, not eliminate. I currently have 120 GC in my big pond, and the water's clear as a bell. The initial stocking was 50%(60), and then another 20 were stocked every other year. So it took 6 years to complete the stocking. Ladder stocking does 2 things. One, it let's you reevaluate every 2 years, so stocking can stop if everything's going well. And two, as the older GC slow down their consumption, the younger GC will take over.

Think Goldilocks and the 3 bears. If you don't stock enough, then problematic plants won't be controlled. If you stock to many, then by the second year, you could be dealing with a turbid pond that's extremely difficult to correct. If you do a proper evaluation, get a permit(if required) for the correct amount of GC, and ladder stock those GC as needed, then everything should be just right.

Grass Carp Preferences


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Originally Posted by FireIsHot
Originally Posted by anthropic
Ross, I hear of many folks who've had bad experiences with grass carp. Overstocking is a real risk, and it is so tempting when you look at a pond or lake covered with weeds.

I got permission to stock grass carp, but hesitate to do so. Once used herbicide which was effective, though I prefer not to use chemicals. Tough call!

Grass carp are never an issue. But, a pond owners incorrect stocking of them can be a really big issue.

I would never stock GC at a rate that eliminated the targeted plant. If the GC do their job, then the potential for turbid water is extremely high. Think control, not eliminate. I currently have 120 GC in my big pond, and the water's clear as a bell. The initial stocking was 50%(60), and then another 20 were stocked every other year. So it took 6 years to complete the stocking. Ladder stocking does 2 things. One, it let's you reevaluate every 2 years, so stocking can stop if everything's going well. And two, as the older GC slow down their consumption, the younger GC will take over.

Think Goldilocks and the 3 bears. If you don't stock enough, then problematic plants won't be controlled. If you stock to many, then by the second year, you could be dealing with a turbid pond that's extremely difficult to correct. If you do a proper evaluation, get a permit(if required) for the correct amount of GC, and ladder stock those GC as needed, then everything should be just right.

Grass Carp Preferences


FIH, how many TGC is that per acre in the pond?


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10. IIRC, that is the max per acre in TX


AL


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