Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
ax558, Mark Bordelon, jenniee, DrewSh, PBODE
17,836 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics39,896
Posts543,189
Members17,836
Most Online3,583
Jan 15th, 2020
Top Posters
esshup 26,889
ewest 21,074
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 14,350
Who's Online Now
8 members (willyfield20, Bill Cody, tylerd1994, FishinRod, Ken77, Theo Gallus, catscratch, Sunil), 201 guests, and 118 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 36
P
OP Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 36
We have a half acre pond thats about 10' deep at the deep end and tapers to the inflow thats an inch deep. Id guess its about 700,000 gallons. We were told it had large bass but we have not seen any indication of any so we assume they maybe died in a fishkill.

The pond has lots of adult golden shiners, blunt nose minnows, minnows and sunfish with a single 24" (fat) Koi. These bait fish readily take food and come to the dock when they see or hear something. Most of the sunfish around the dock are tiny in the inch to 3" range with just a handful of 4-5" ones. I did catch one through the ice in the winter that may have been 7" or so. There is also a massive amount of frogs and tadpoles. Must have been 10,000s of over wintered TP as they scattered from the shore as you walk along.

We do not have any cover at all in the water yet. We are still pumping muck out as time and water levels allow with a full trash pump. Once that is done I plan to add some artificial habitat. There is very little plant life as well, some seaweed at the shallow end and some sort of carpet-like plant along the edges. The tadpoles appear to be keeping that at bay and we previously had a family of muskrats which the dog probably scared away.

When the fish feed I'd guess there have been 200 total fish at the most. Why would the sunfish all be small? Would there be too many fish to support overall? I'd think we would see more fish if that was the case or perhaps the bigger ones do not come to feed. The shiners appear well fed with most of them over 3-4".

I would like a mix of nice sized sunfish and a few LMB. I realize I will need to add structure before LMB or I may not have bait for very long.

Attached Images
IMG_20220622_174601488.jpg (17.27 KB, 69 downloads)
IMG_20220423_193711026.jpg (52.32 KB, 61 downloads)
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,741
Likes: 116
P
Offline
P
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 3,741
Likes: 116
I would fish it and see what you come up with….. might try a live shiner and see what happens

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 295
F
Lunker
Online Content
Lunker
F
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,725
Likes: 295
Originally Posted by PAfarmPondPGH69
Why would the sunfish all be small? Would there be too many fish to support overall? I'd think we would see more fish if that was the case or perhaps the bigger ones do not come to feed.

Without a predator, a prolific species of fish will overpopulate the pond and become stunted.

You could still have a few large LMB in the pond, but they cannot keep up with your annual new production of BG and shiners.

Eventually you need to get some bass in there of the correct size to feast on the 2-3" long BG. That size of bass would also like the 3-4" shiners.

That will result in both bigger bass and bigger BG!

Hopefully you can collect a little more data, and then get some good advice for a fall stocking of LMB.

Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 36
P
OP Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 36
I understand overpopulation and stunting but I'd expect to see more fish if it was over populated I would think. Walking around the pond not many fish are seen, a few here or there. Maybe they are 2-3 feet deep and I can't see the. The Koi is bright orange and when it's crushing near the top it's visible but weeks can go by I don't see it. Visibility is up to 30 inches at time so it's not all that murky.

I've been in the pond, on the pond, around the pond and had a camera in it and have not seen a bass. I've tried some lures and night crawlers as well.

I wonder if too many tadpoles could limit the food sources?

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,915
Likes: 126
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,915
Likes: 126
As we can't see ALL the water that's carrying fish, sometimes I try and develop a working ratio to extrapolate what I can actually see with my own eyes to what the real population may be.

One experienced pond meister told me, regarding bluegill, that when feeding, you might only have 6 or 7 out 10 bluegill that actually take the feed at the surface, or at all. So, you could start with a working assumption that you are seeing maybe 50% of the existing fish visually just to get some kind of gauge for planning. Of course, when you are feeding at a certain spot, there's a lot of fish that never make it over to that spot especially the larger your pond.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,643
Likes: 77
C
Offline
C
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,643
Likes: 77
What intrigues me is that in a fairly shallow and mucky pond near Pittsburgh, PA , that Tilapia can overwinter. That seems hard to believe. I'm sure Pittsburgh gets cold enough water to make at least a thin skin of ice at some point over the winter months? Even the hardiest Tilapia cannot tolerate water much below 55 degrees and I have to believe through the winter the water temps in PA hit at least the high 30s at some point?

What super strain of Tilapia are in the pond and how did they get there?

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,643
Likes: 77
C
Offline
C
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,643
Likes: 77
Oops, my bad, forget what I posted. You said that TP overwintered and you meant tadpoles... Carry on as before.. You probably have bullfrog tadpoles as they spend 3 years in the tadpole stage and have no problem overwintering.

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,915
Likes: 126
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,915
Likes: 126
I would not think a tadpole can 'overwinter' as the life-cycle of a tadpole is a few months until it becomes a frog or toad?


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 13
J
Offline
J
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 13
Originally Posted by Sunil
I would not think a tadpole can 'overwinter' as the life-cycle of a tadpole is a few months until it becomes a frog or toad?


I thought it has been discussed previously here and the tadpoles would starve over winter...

Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,643
Likes: 77
C
Offline
C
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,643
Likes: 77
If they look like this then they are bullfrog tadpoles. They will look like this over 2 full seasons including being underwater full time even in the winter time. If we break through the ice in the shallows in the dead of winter it is common to see the tadpole float up on to the ice and show normal swimming activity. The third year they sprout legs and grow large enough to be a shore dweller.

[Linked Image]



We also have Northern Green frog tadpoles which are single season tadpoles.

Last edited by canyoncreek; 07/12/22 12:33 PM.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 26,889
Likes: 361
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 26,889
Likes: 361
The only black tadpoles are toad tadpoles. All frog tads are not black.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,915
Likes: 126
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,915
Likes: 126
Thanks, CC. I didn't know that.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,286
Likes: 95
D
Moderator
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Lunker
D
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,286
Likes: 95
I had no idea that it took 3 years for a tadpole to become a frog.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,643
Likes: 77
C
Offline
C
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,643
Likes: 77
Sorry esshup, that picture shows darker coloring since photoed in the shade and you are correct, in real life they are mottled brown/green and not black. The large 'fuselage' and the small straight tail indicates bullfrog tadpole.
I am not sure how many other frogs take longer to develop probably not all frogs but specific to bullfrog they spend longer in the tadpole stage.

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 26,889
Likes: 361
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 26,889
Likes: 361
Originally Posted by canyoncreek
Sorry esshup, that picture shows darker coloring since photoed in the shade and you are correct, in real life they are mottled brown/green and not black. The large 'fuselage' and the small straight tail indicates bullfrog tadpole.
I am not sure how many other frogs take longer to develop probably not all frogs but specific to bullfrog they spend longer in the tadpole stage.

As far as I know, in N. America the bullfrog is the only frog that takes more than a year to get from hatching to an adult frog. I've seen where it is said that they can get to an adult in one year, but I am assuming that they mean 365 days and not one "season" as a year.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 13
J
Offline
J
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,642
Likes: 13
Lots of knowledge being dropped here.

Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 36
P
OP Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 36
Followed thread but not getting notifications. Probably a dozen adult bull frogs and 100+ small frogs when walking the perimeter. Looks like 3+ species so far.

Good news, might be getting 20 bass stocked.

Seeing lots of dead fish all in the same size range. Maybe 3-10 per day floating around the edges. All 2-3" size. Was mostly shiners but now seeing some sunfish. No change in feeding behaviour or anything. Water is down a few inches even though we've only had an inch of rain in the past 4-5 weeks.

Seeing schools of fry so spawning must have been successful even though I saw no sign of nesting.

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,915
Likes: 126
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 12,915
Likes: 126
Are you still pumping sludge/sediment?


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 36
P
OP Offline
P
Joined: Mar 2022
Posts: 36
No, with the lack of rain I did not want to draw down the pond any. Its maybe 4-5 inches below the stand pipe but may continue once we get enough rain to fill it up.


Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
For the Family, honyok, Jakeroo, Zinki
Recent Posts
SMB for NOVA pond?
by Bill Cody - 08/16/22 08:19 PM
Just a little watermeal?
by LANGSTER - 08/16/22 04:17 PM
Would aeration help this scum?
by ewest - 08/16/22 01:18 PM
Catfish Die Off
by Dave Davidson1 - 08/16/22 08:46 AM
Sunfish Stocking, start with small or big?
by FishinRod - 08/16/22 08:27 AM
Will water lillies take over my pond?
by teehjaeh57 - 08/15/22 07:15 PM
Getting started on a 50 acre unmanaged pond
by FishinRod - 08/15/22 10:30 AM
New Southern Ohio Pond
by anthropic - 08/14/22 11:13 PM
Controlling Watershield
by Bill Cody - 08/14/22 06:52 PM
Grass Carp in California?
by FishinRod - 08/14/22 10:30 AM
Newly Uploaded Images
Alien lifeforms
Alien lifeforms
by cb100, August 11
test
test
by Dwight, July 29
My possible pond site
My possible pond site
by ArbyTX, July 27
test
test
by Dwight, July 22
Male RES
Male RES
by Shorty, June 27
New Record Bluegill
New Record Bluegill
by Theo Gallus, June 10

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5