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Originally Posted by Quarter Acre
Consider using light PCV pipe for the egg laying, and/or the corrugated plastic sheet that cheap signs are made of. Both are light and I have seen other's success with regards to holding eggs (in aquariums). As far as size of either, I'd try items that are at least a foot long (or a foot square) an no more than 3 foot.

A male FHM tries to lay claim to an area that is about 18" square whenever possible.


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Originally Posted by esshup
Originally Posted by Quarter Acre
Consider using light PCV pipe for the egg laying, and/or the corrugated plastic sheet that cheap signs are made of. Both are light and I have seen other's success with regards to holding eggs (in aquariums). As far as size of either, I'd try items that are at least a foot long (or a foot square) an no more than 3 foot.

A male FHM tries to lay claim to an area that is about 18" square whenever possible.


This is good stuff to know and I'm glad to get valuable input on the questions I ask. Thank you!

So that means that my space available inside my cage will be at a premium. I likely won't be able to expect an enormous number to spawn at any one time unless males allow more than one female to come lay eggs in their defended space.

I sounds like layers stacked on one another may be a better choice than tubes, although the tubes will also have areas and surfaces inbetween and outside of them. Still though, at 4" wide, it may make things tight without much wiggle room inbetween. Layering/stacking surfaces may be the way to go.

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If you are interested I built a FHM "condo" for my RES/SMB pond to give the FHM something to spaqn on. It was not in a cage but instead staked to the bank of the pond. But it might give you some ideas.

Did it work? Darned if I know. I got the idea from some youtube videos on FHM or Rosie Reds spawning in aquariums. Several people were using PVC pipe as a substrate for them. So I got the idea of making a colony of PVC pipes. I tried to turn the pipes different directions to give the couples the most privacy and minimize competition. The holes drilled in the pipes were for water flow and good aereation (at least my idea of it).

Scroll down the page to where the title includes the words "some FHM substrate. 2/3 the way down the page. The installation of it in the pond is further down that same page.

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=459159&page=6

Last edited by snrub; 05/05/22 01:33 PM.

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Originally Posted by snrub
If you are interested I built a FHM "condo" for my RES/SMB pond to give the FHM something to spaqn on. It was not in a cage but instead staked to the bank of the pond. But it might give you some ideas.

Did it work? Darned if I know. I got the idea from some youtube videos on FHM or Rosie Reds spawning in aquariums. Several people were using PVC pipe as a substrate for them. So I got the idea of making a colony of PVC pipes. I tried to turn the pipes different directions to give the couples the most privacy and minimize competition. The holes drilled in the pipes were for water flow and good aereation (at least my idea of it).

Scroll down the page to where the title includes the words "some FHM substrate. 2/3 the way down the page. The installation of it in the pond is further down that same page.

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=459159&page=6

I like that "condo." I put together a couple of pallet stacks out there before my pond filled up but now wish I would have put more. I also put a few brush piles of mostly cedar.

I think for the cage I could go with a combo of pipes between layers of wood. My thought right now is that the cage will be about 4ft square. I want it small enough to move around and service as needed. I probably won't have a lot of room as I will likely leave a gap in the middle for a minnow dip net if I want to try to take some out without first removing the structure.

If my cage is 4 ft. square and either 2, 3 or 4 ft. deep. I wonder how many minnows I should put in it? I wonder what the limit will be such that they become a constant menace to all who are trying to guard eggs. Will they destroy one another's nests? I'd like to stuff in as many as possible.

I will be making another tester cage to keep in a large pet or baby pool to see what kind of production I can get expect.

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What if you approach this from a different angle.

What if you make your cage and only put in a handful of FHM's? Maybe a couple dozen. However many could have spawning areas they could protect. Size the mesh of the cage so the breeders stay in (and anything that could eat them out) and the recruitment (babies) wanders out into your pond.

Provide cover and habitat for the fry around the cage.

Could it be you would get more breeder production that way?

Last edited by snrub; 05/05/22 08:15 PM.

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Originally Posted by snrub
What if you approach this from a different angle.

What if you make your cage and only put in a handful of FHM's? Maybe a couple dozen. However many could have spawning areas they could protect. Size the mesh of the cage so the breeders stay in (and anything that could eat them out) and the recruitment (babies) wanders out into your pond.

Provide cover and habitat for the fry around the cage.

Could it be you would get more breeder production that way?


That's close to exactly what I would like to do, keep the breeders in and safe while letting their fry wander out. I just would like to find the number combination that will maximize the production of young. With the one I will first put in the pond, I can start light on the numbers. With the one I put in the pool, I can gradually add more numbers to gauge how they are doing. That one can be my experiment cage and one where I can at least monitor results. I may have to set up a second pool to stock extra minnows that I can add to one or both cages over time. I plan to purchase 1000 of them as that's the unit the nearest hatchery sells them as. I first planned to use that many between the two cages but maybe that's a bad idea and starting off small is the better way to go.

Hopefully my mesh is delivered and waiting for me when I get home from work. It was supposed to be here yesterday. I want to get cracking on this and since we've been drowned by rain this past week in Missouri, the garden is far too soggy to get into and it will give me a good excuse to spend my weekend on this project.

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You can get more to spawn in a given area if the males that are protecting the eggs cannot see other close males. i.e. you can get more to breed in a smaller area.


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Questions:

I am pondering as to how I am going to build the minnow hotel structures inside the cage.

Would a 9 inch section of 3 diameter corrugated pipe be enough for a minnow to spawn in? I'm wanting to stack as many as I can in the cage but I'd hate to build structures that are worthless to the minnows.

I could also step it up to 12 inch long, 4" diameter pipe. I am also wondering if some minnows will utilize the areas created between the tubes created as I stack and bundle them all together.

Will only one minnow spawn and defend each section of tube or will some of them share space?

Do the minnows lay eggs on the roof or the floor? I am planning on adding some wood sections inbetween some pipe rows. What should be the minimum width of the board I use for that in order to get a minnow to spawn on it?

I know it's a lot of questions and I appreciate all that help to give input on this topic. I still haven't gotten my mesh delivered yet. I hope it gets here soon. We are looking at rain going into the weekend and that will provide me with time and an excuse to get out of the gardens an on to a new and fun project.

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I can't say I have heard of anyone using corrugated pipe and I would lean towards smooth pipe or strictly flat surfaces like plastic or wood sheet. Plastic would be lighter and better for your application. I'm not saying the corrugated pipe would not work, but the corrugations may not be the best since they lay the eggs on the "ceiling" of their nesting area and the corrugations may be harder to stick the eggs to in mass.

Rumor has it the parent likes to guard about a 12-18" area. That leads me to believe that two would share a larger space. I have seen several guarding crevices in rock piles that could not have had more than a 4x4" ceiling available for the eggs. Nesting areas may have been at a premium when the FHM population was maxed out in my pond and small crevices were all that was left for the less dominant fish. The individual would run off anything that got within 10 inches of the crevice. They will use just about any hole or ledge that's available. So, I think sections of pipe no less than 6" long would work, but I'd prefer 12 to 18" pieces if you have to use pipe.

If it were me, I'd would use the corrugated cardboard-like plastic that cheap signs are made of along with 1/4" all-thread and nuts/washers to create a tower of 18" square platforms with about 3 inch spacing. Not that I have attempted what your are doing..it's just my thoughts. I used stacked pallets that had close fitting slates with bricks between each pallet for added ceilings and they worked incredible well in my pond.

[Linked Image from forums.pondboss.com]

[Linked Image from forums.pondboss.com]

My final thought would be that any pipe from 3" up would work well, but you are trying to maximize a small space and flats would lend themselves to that goal. You'll produce minnows anyway you go and the advantages of one way over another may be marginal. These FHM, like rabbits, just want to fill the pond with their kind and will find the way to do so given the lack of predators.


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QA,

I love that fleet of pallet stacks you have there. I wish I would have done more myself. The rocks are nice too. I put a few pallets in my pond before it filled and a few large brush piles, mostly cedar. I am hoping the minnows will make the most of it. I have some large rocks and lots of gravel and smaller rock.

I may just try to find some free or cheap pallets in town and use wood from those. The idea for corrugated pipe was from some examples I saw on the internet of other people's breeding structure. I thought it may offer more privacy. Thing is though is that I don't want to sink too much money into this. Cheap and easy would be preferable. I have a zillion things I'd like to buy this Spring so if I can go cheap somewhere and still make something function adequately, I'll go that route. If I used pipe, I'd have to figure out how to fasten it or use chicken wire to hold it all in which is a bit befuddling to me. I am thinking about building two or four removable units inside my 4' x 4' x 4' cage while still leaving some room in the center in case I want to run a minnow net through it to pull some out. For the minnow pool (if I ever get that far), my cage will be 4'x4'x2' and likely stick out of the water but I will also have the option of moving that into the pond if I want. For the pool I am going to have to purchase an aerator, pool, and some kind of filter. I am thinking sponge filter that I can run off the aerator. I might also set up a second pool where I can transfer the fry into, let them grow a little and eventually put them into the pond. (more money, uggh)

This will all be one big learning experience but it has my interest up. I am not sure I'll have a pool setup going before the summer heat sets in. I'd hate to be so late that the heat gets high enough to where it restricts breeding. If I can do it and if I am happily surprised with the production, I'll build more cages for the pond as time and money permits.

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As esshup menitoned - ""You can get more to spawn in a given area if the males that are protecting the eggs cannot see other close males. i.e. you can get more to breed in a smaller area.""
Pallets will produce more FHM spawning areas if there is an additional divider or wall inside the pallet. Currently pallets have one 2X4 in the middle. An additional 2X4 or similar divider to make the space between the middle and center wall not as wide will allow more spawning of FHM due to their territorial instinct.

In a confined space if you bundle short pipes together this gives FHM males confined spaces to create territories. Example - See page 1 in the Q&A Structure Archive ewest's post dated 29/07/07 time 1:06pm on his pictures 9 and 10 for groups or bundles of pipes.
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92463#Post92463

Last edited by Bill Cody; 05/10/22 10:01 AM.

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Originally Posted by Bill Cody
As esshup menitoned - ""You can get more to spawn in a given area if the males that are protecting the eggs cannot see other close males. i.e. you can get more to breed in a smaller area.""
Pallets will produce more FHM spawning areas if there is an additional divider or wall inside the pallet. Currently pallets have one 2X4 in the middle. An additional 2X4 or similar divider to make the space between the middle and center wall not as wide will allow more spawning of FHM due to their territorial instinct.

In a confined space if you bundle short pipes together this gives FHM males confined spaces to create territories. Example - See page 1 in the Q&A Structure Archive ewest's post dated 29/07/07 time 1:06pm on his pictures 9 and 10 for groups or bundles of pipes.
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92463#Post92463

Wow and Thanks! That's an incredible thread that I'll be all up in like a fresh Philly steak and cheese.. Nice resource and great pics!

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In my experience and opinion I think you should reconsider spending a lot of time and effort raising FHM to grow better BG and Bass. Why?
1. For best production you are going to need to feed the FHM which means buying food.

2. And most importantly feeding fish to other fish that eat minnows is a VERY inefficient way to grow your BG and LMB. History and research tells us fish will need to eat about 10 pounds of live food to gain a ONE pound resulting in around a 10:1 conversion. It is much cheaper with less effort to feed the fish a high protein, highly digestible pellet that produces close to a 2:1 or sometimes even close to a 1:1 conversion rate. This means every 1-2 pounds of good quality pellets produces close to 1 pound of fish gain. The pellet conversion ratio of 1:1 lb gain becomes closer if the fish are also able to eat other natural foods in the pond. This also depends on the specie of fish. High quality pellets cost a little more money compared to lower cost pellets but the amount of weigh gain is more and fish waste and water quality loss are measurably LESS and proven with indoor feeding tests for the more expensive fish pellets. It is all about how much of the pellet is digestible to produce fish weight gain and healthy fish. Too many carbohydrates are not good healthy food or fish or humans.

3. Get your pond fish on real good fish food pellets and you will see real good results.

4. Pellet feeding produces lots more bigger fish faster compared to fish living on all natural foods. When producing more fish with pellets, IT BECOMES MORE IMPORTANT TO IMPLEMENT PROPER FISH HARVEST TO MAINTAIN THE QUALITY OF THE FISHERY LONG TERM. Ponds can easily become unhealthy for fish and water quality when feeding too many fish.

5. When feeding pond fish it is very important to understand pond carrying capacity, and proper fish harvest to achieve your goals for the fishery. Different goals require different specific management methods.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 05/10/22 10:38 AM.

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Bill, your comments spurred me to think about the best way to use feed in a LMB/BG pond.

Given a set food budget, would it be best to focus on feeding smaller pellets to the BG, or big pellets to the LMB?

Obviously the big pellets will benefit more the LMB that eat them, but not all are feed trained. Most especially wild bred LMB may not come to the feed much. But those that eat big pellets, may ease off on BG predation, helping that population.

The small pellets help the BG that serve as LMB food, of course. Some LMB eat small pellets, too, but most of them end up in BG bellies. One pound of BG is nowhere near as nourishing bass growth as one pound of fish food, but on the other hand BG reproduce in large numbers & utilize natural resources in addition to man made.

What are your thoughts in a pond environment? Does it depend on the carrying capacity?

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anthropic - you ask
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Given a set food budget, would it be best to focus on feeding smaller pellets to the BG, or big pellets to the LMB?

Obviously the big pellets will benefit more the LMB that eat them, but not all are feed trained. Most especially wild bred LMB may not come to the feed much. But those that eat big pellets, may ease off on BG predation, helping that population.

The small pellets help the BG that serve as LMB food, of course. Some LMB eat small pellets, too, but most of them end up in BG bellies. One pound of BG is nowhere near as nourishing bass growth as one pound of fish food, but on the other hand BG reproduce in large numbers & utilize natural resources in addition to man made.

What are your thoughts in a pond environment? Does it depend on the carrying capacity?

Your questions are a complex topic to discuss. There are lots of factors involved. Other members can also provide what they have learned on this topic as the thread continues. Here are a few of my initial thoughts.
1. Lots of experience has taught me to first begin with pellet trained fish. Although I have done it both ways of training pond fish to eat pellets while also buying pellet raised fish. The 2nd way is easier and quicker producing the fastest results when someone else pellet trains the stocker fish. Training fish to eat pellets takes time and it is helpful to use the correct training methods which helps a lot for success. Correct methods to train fish to eat pellets is a complete article by itself.

2. If you want some pellet trained fish in a all natural food pond, I suggest that you remove any number of "wild" fish and replace them in equal numbers with pellet trained fish. This relates to carrying capacity. Adding pellet eating fish helps speed the conversion toward a pellet eating fishery. IMPORTANT - The older a pellet raised stocker fish is when purchased,,,,,, the more likely it will remain eating pellets after it is stocked into your pond.

3.. If you are looking to best enhance the whole fish community IMO it is best to feed all the fish species and sizes. This quickly benefits the whole fish community. Usually this means using various sizes of pellet feed for the various sizes of fish. For my small fisheries I use basically one size pellet 1/4". I grind pellets to various sizes for minnows and soften pellets for 3"+ fish. I have learned to soften the pellets so 3" and 16" fish can eat the same soft squeezable pellet. This eliminates buying several sizes of pellets. All my fish seem to grow very well.

4. As far as "What are your thoughts in a pond environment?" Pellet feeding esp using high quality pellets grows more fish pounds and bigger fish faster. This concept is basically the same as raising most all animals for food or your other use. Animal husbandry.

5. There are numerous advantages and disadvantages to a natural fed fishery and a supplemental pellet fed fishery.

6. For best results of a natural and pellet fishery carrying capacity requirements need to be followed for getting or achieving the best results for ones GOALS. Goals have to be realistic based on Mother Nature's Laws.

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IMO get feed that is multi sized and feed all. That way you are hedging your risk that either one would be better.
There is a range of feeding from small amount of supplemental to lots of food like aquaculture. So, pond size and goals effect your feeding options - watch your water quality. The more you rely on feeding the more attention you have to pay to management - water quality, carrying capacity, population dynamics and harvest.
















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Quote
In my experience and opinion I think you should reconsider spending a lot of time and effort raising FHM to grow better BG and Bass. Why?
1. For best production you are going to need to feed the FHM which means buying food.

2. And most importantly feeding fish to other fish that eat minnows is a VERY inefficient way to grow your BG and LMB.

Bill, the way I see these kinds of projects, which I very much like by the way, isn't from the perspective of #1 or #2. While it may be true to maximize production would require feeding ... why must one maximize it? What about the case of minnows like FHM and BNM that feed low on the feed chain consuming algae and detritus and thus utilize niches under utilized by BG? They don't need to be fed to do that. In fact, they will probably do a better job of it if not fed. Why not feed a BG a reasonable amount of feed as part of a nutrient budget and let the minnow help to clean up the 77% of the nutrients that are in the manure. Fish are consuming all the time ... mostly on nutrients that are just part of the ponds food web fueled by native nutrients. Minnow fry introductions can utilize this resource, compete with and reduce recruitment of the fry of sport fish, and significantly add to forage with a dry weight nutrient profile that is ~70% protein and packed with all the appropriate amino acids where nothing ... absolutely nothing ... in the minnows is bad for BG and LMB to eat. Minnows will favor the big BG scenario and should probably be replaced with TP for the big LMB scenario.

The feed required to maintain 4 lbs of breeding FHM is minimal while they produce between 1000 and 4000 eggs/pound every day. Of those that hatch ... the fry that infuse the pond ... these fry will add to the food chain by converting nutrient sources that are outside the niche of BG. If a person fed 4% of the weight of the brooder FHM over 100 days we are only talking 4 lbs of feed total with the potential of seeding >400,000 fry.

When a person feeds it converts well and affordably but in a pond that will produce 200 lbs of fish annually and maintain 400 lbs of fish ... all that is free without cost ... without accumulating nutrients ... and so I would say that no feeding is the most efficient way to grow fish and supplementing forage organisms is a way of increasing the production(and maintenance) that is possible when feeding or not. If a pond produces 300 lbs of fish naturally in a season and you feed 60 lbs of feed at direct conversion of 1.5 is the FCR really .176? Or is it just 1.5 where now there are additional nutrients accumulated? To remove the nitrogen in 60 lbs of 42% feed one must harvest 184.61 lbs of BG and/or LMB.

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Everyone has an opinion be it correct, wrong, misinterpreted, slanted, or biased. Final results tell the rest of the story.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 05/11/22 10:06 AM.

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Originally Posted by jpsdad
Quote
In my experience and opinion I think you should reconsider spending a lot of time and effort raising FHM to grow better BG and Bass. Why?
1. For best production you are going to need to feed the FHM which means buying food.

2. And most importantly feeding fish to other fish that eat minnows is a VERY inefficient way to grow your BG and LMB.

Bill, the way I see these kinds of projects, which I very much like by the way, isn't from the perspective of #1 or #2. While it may be true to maximize production would require feeding ... why must one maximize it? What about the case of minnows like FHM and BNM that feed low on the feed chain consuming algae and detritus and thus utilize niches under utilized by BG? They don't need to be fed to do that. In fact, they will probably do a better job of it if not fed. Why not feed a BG a reasonable amount of feed as part of a nutrient budget and let the minnow help to clean up the 77% of the nutrients that are in the manure. Fish are consuming all the time ... mostly on nutrients that are just part of the ponds food web fueled by native nutrients. Minnow fry introductions can utilize this resource, compete with and reduce recruitment of the fry of sport fish, and significantly add to forage with a dry weight nutrient profile that is ~70% protein and packed with all the appropriate amino acids where nothing ... absolutely nothing ... in the minnows is bad for BG and LMB to eat. Minnows will favor the big BG scenario and should probably be replaced with TP for the big LMB scenario.

The feed required to maintain 4 lbs of breeding FHM is minimal while they produce between 1000 and 4000 eggs/pound every day. Of those that hatch ... the fry that infuse the pond ... these fry will add to the food chain by converting nutrient sources that are outside the niche of BG. If a person fed 4% of the weight of the brooder FHM over 100 days we are only talking 4 lbs of feed total with the potential of seeding >400,000 fry.

When a person feeds it converts well and affordably but in a pond that will produce 200 lbs of fish annually and maintain 400 lbs of fish ... all that is free without cost ... without accumulating nutrients ... and so I would say that no feeding is the most efficient way to grow fish and supplementing forage organisms is a way of increasing the production(and maintenance) that is possible when feeding or not. If a pond produces 300 lbs of fish naturally in a season and you feed 60 lbs of feed at direct conversion of 1.5 is the FCR really .176? Or is it just 1.5 where now there are additional nutrients accumulated? To remove the nitrogen in 60 lbs of 42% feed one must harvest 184.61 lbs of BG and/or LMB.

I am going to go ahead and set up my minnow breeding cage in my pond. I already have the mesh for it and if I end up abandoning it at some point, my cage can be used as a fish holder when it comes time to start. I imagine I'll be giving those in the cage some fish flakes since they will be confined in numbers but for the minnows free swimming in the pond, I am sure there is more than enough naturally available food for them to forage. I may or may not do the pool but the only reason I would is just to see how the pond cage idea may be working. How much it actually makes a difference for the predators in the pond isn't too much of a concern. I want to try it anyways. Worse case scenario is that I have cheap and readily available bait. I have friends that stop by and dig my worms from my compost pile and my soil regenerating pen. They are welcomed to have some free minnows too. I do plan on feeding what fish I can get to eat (haven't seen any eating yet, 2 1/2 weeks since I stocked fingerlings though.) I imagine my pond is incredibly rich right now for the fish that are currently in it.

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I for one will be interested in how you think it works out for you. I've got predators in my tiny 1/20th acre forage pond now so just putting in FHM's might not do much good. But what you are doing might just work.

Something you might consider after you get it going is to put a couple of minnow traps in your pond to see if you can capture any of your recruitment minnows. Shallow water, a foot or two deep, is what I have my best luck capturing minnows in a trap. Somewhere in my old forage pond thread I have pictures and a discussion of minnow traps.

In my opinion the Gee's traps are some of the best. As the fish you are trying to capture get a little bigger, a person can enlarge the opening from the standard 1" to 1.5 or so. Be advised though, doing so probably makes it illegal to use in public waters. And captured fish tend to wander back out easier so more frequent content checks are needed.

Edit: Some minnow trap info:

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=521163&page=1

About half way down the following page some discussion and pictures of different traps I have used.

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=498329&page=2

Last edited by snrub; 05/11/22 01:02 PM.

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snrub #547747 05/11/22 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by snrub
I for one will be interested in how you think it works out for you. I've got predators in my tiny 1/20th acre forage pond now so just putting in FHM's might not do much good. But what you are doing might just work.

Something you might consider after you get it going is to put a couple of minnow traps in your pond to see if you can capture any of your recruitment minnows. Shallow water, a foot or two deep, is what I have my best luck capturing minnows in a trap. Somewhere in my old forage pond thread I have pictures and a discussion of minnow traps.

In my opinion the Gee's traps are some of the best. As the fish you are trying to capture get a little bigger, a person can enlarge the opening from the standard 1" to 1.5 or so. Be advised though, doing so probably makes it illegal to use in public waters. And captured fish tend to wander back out easier so more frequent content checks are needed.

Edit: Some minnow trap info:

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=521163&page=1

About half way down the following page some discussion and pictures of different traps I have used.

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=498329&page=2

I have a number of cylindrical bait traps I've made. I should put some in my pond near my dock to see what I may catch. For the minnows, I was thinking of purchasing 1000 of them. (that's what they sell them by in the hatchery nearest to me.) I am guessing that's far too many to put in the breeding cage. I really don't know how many I should put in it. The cage will be 4'x4'x4'. I'm hoping to build it this weekend. If I had a pump and pool set up, I'd put the others in it but I can always dump in the pond what I don't put in the cage. Without the pool though, I won't have any idea how well the cage may be working, and even then, it's likely that the pool cage and pond cage could have different production with different size cages and environment.

I really can't see what harm will come from at least trying it. Sure, having a bunch of tiny newborn minnows freely moving out into the pond may not have much of an effect as far as providing forage but I'm sure something will eat them and at least get some benefit. It won't cost much at all to maintain it after it's started. I can also use the cage for something else so at least building it won't be a waste of money.

I will definitely post progress and results as I come by them.

My idea to start will be to first build the cage as a cube with one or more lids on top. Those who don't I will make a note of it. Once I can obtain some minnows, I will throw them in the cube in the pond. The earliest I can purchase some will be the weekend after next so I probably should see if I can trap some off the dock. I want to put them in the cage and see how much damage they may do to themselves. I bought PVC coated hardware cloth for the mesh. If needed, I can insert rounded corners, but I want to see how the PVC cloth is on them first.

I'll check out those threads you've linked, thanks!

Last edited by SherWood; 05/11/22 02:36 PM.
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Originally Posted by Bill Cody
Everyone has an opinion be it correct, wrong, misinterpreted, slanted, or biased. Final results tell the rest of the story.

Music to my ears. Observational results must always win out over our opinions.


7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB & 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS -116




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Originally Posted by Bill Cody
Everyone has an opinion be it correct, wrong, misinterpreted, slanted, or biased. Final results tell the rest of the story.

Bill, all I was saying is that I disagree that it is a waste of his time. If the caged FHM spawn successfully there should be a benefit all other things equal. I doubt that minnows can compete for the feed with BG and LMB anyway. From that perspective neither of the first two conditions apply. First he can't feed them because BG and LMB won't allow them to eat much feed and Second, if the minnows aren't eating feed then they don't make the feed less efficient.

The seeded fry will have to eat natural foods. They will provide some unknown amount of forage depending on the average life span and it may not be a good value in the end if they are all consumed as hatch fry. Is this why you are discouraging it?


It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


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