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#546554 04/18/22 07:03 AM
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New owner of a pond that has been neglected. Have a lot of the common issues, Muck, stunted fish, runoff ect. Have been raking for a week and ready to install a system. After my system is installed will address muck with bacteria.


WVA pond 1 acre 12 ft deep rectangle for most part, 25 years since built
avg depth @ 8
No algae, runoff keeps it moving a little, some minor weeds
lots of small 9-13 inch bass and 5 inch bluegill
600" from power source.

Thinking of a Gast 0523 with 600 feet 1 " air line to a manifold and two 5/8 inch weighted lines to 2 diffusers at 12 foot and 6 foot. Am I on right track? How loud is the Gast? Other suggestions? Any pumps more energy efficient. Thought about the Hiblow 200 but worried about too much pressure?

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Welcome to Pond Boss!

Let's see what the aeration experts have to say.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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According to a recent thread on the HB200, it has a Max Continuous Operating Pressure of 4.3 psi. Your application would push that pump off the pressure spec just by pushing air down to 12 foot. The recent thread...

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=546455#Post546455

The Gast pumps compare to a household vacuum cleaner regarding sound levels. I'm not talking about a quiet one either. Not to say they are too obnoxious, but they are more loud than the diaphragm pumps of comparable output. The rotary vane pump would be a good choice for your 12 foot diffuser depths. My 0523 is in a small pump house...outhouse sized steel shed...and is about 60-70 foot from from the dock and is not a nuisance. I can hear it humming along, but normal dock conversation is just fine. Being inside the pump house makes phone conversations annoying if possible at all, but outside with the door closed is not an issue.

A rule of thumb is to turn the pond water over once a day with your aeration system. I use the 0523 in a quarter acre pond and can run that 3-diffuser system for about 5 hours a day and achieve that rule of thumb. I also exceed the rule of thumb and approach 3 to 4 turnovers a day when running around the clock. The nice thing is that I can run only at night during the heat of the summer and still turn the pond over 1-2 times. This is supposed to cut down on heating the pond up during the day and it saves some electricity. I like the idea of sizing the system to turn the pond over in a half a day just for some flexibility.

3 diffusers in a 1 acre pond may be enough to get that turn over in day, running 24 hours or close. If it were me, I would look into using the next larger size pump and a few additional diffusers. Adding additional diffusers to the 0523 would spread out the water movement, but would do little to increase the overall turnover rate since you would be sharing the total available CFM's with more diffusers. That would reduce the water flow per diffuser. A larger pump would help keep the CFM to each diffuser near or above 1 CFM hence maintaining the flow rate at each diffuser. Off the cuff, a 0823 pump would handle 6 or 7 diffusers whereas the 0523 would push 3 or 4 (in your application).


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I struggle with the Gast because it will be located about 30 feet from our bedroom window and at the corner of a patio. I was hoping for a quieter solution so I would not have to run power 600 feet.

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I wouldn't want a rotary vane pump that close to my bedroom either. I like peace and quiet during my sleep. I wouldn't want any kind of pump that close actually. Can you use a sound proof enclosure with good ventilation? It wouldn't take much to knock the sound down enough to be much, much better, maybe even acceptable. My wife would love it...she sleeps with a white-noise generator in her bedroom.


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Welcome to the forum!
You'll get some great advice here, and some... not so great.

You're average depth of 8 feet, is a good place to locate your diffusers. Putting them at your deepest holes (12 feet) is ill-advised. Reason being, to maintain some sort of thermocline, for fish health.

You mentioned, loudness and energy efficiency. Those things, as you know, make the Hiblow pump a strong candidate, as does your 8 foot depth.

Your pond would do well with 3 diffusers, I recommend the Matlala. The 1" main line run for that length is good. The HD 200 you mentioned will easily do the job. I run the 120LL, and really like it, costs about 75% less to run than the Gast pump, mentioned above. The LL stands for Long Life, it's has upgraded internal components. This summer marks 5 years without a rebuild for me, it's running 4 heads near the depth you should be running yours.

If it were me running a ditch 600 feet, I'd throw a wire in there for an outlet near the pond and locate the pump there. Maybe add a light post down there as well. The Hiblow is outdoor rated and will withstand the elements, although a small doghouse over it wouldn't hurt.

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Running some quick numbers for a 1 acre rectangular pond that averages 8 foot deep suggests that it holds about 2 million gallons. 3 diffusers at the 8 foot depth (suggested by Journey) , given at least 1 CFM per head could turn that pond well over twice in a 24 hour period. Better than I thought earlier. I'd make sure they were spread out from one another rather well.

For mere comparison...Put 2 of the diffusers in 12 foot and another in 6 and this scenario would turn the pond over 3.6 times in a 24 hour period.

I estimate that the 600 foot of 1" line length would require about 0.5 psi for line loss at a minimum.

The 5/8" (depending on length) could add another 0.5 psi.

Typical fitting and valve losses could be around 0.5 to 1 psi.

Diffusers/check valves need a bit to get them going, 0.5 - 1 psi.

And, at an 8 foot depth, 3.46 psi is required from the pump.

On the low end of the pressure output requirement... 0.5+0.5+0.5+0.5+3.46 = 5.46 psi

(IF my guesses for the line, fitting , & head losses are off by 50%...we still get 4.46 psi)

I am not sure what Hi Blow means by their "Max Continuous Operating Pressure of 4.3 psi" for the HP200? (There does not appear to be a HP-200LL available, maybe I just missed it.) How many years will it last if operated over that specification? Is continuous operation for more than an hour, a day, a year? Is the specification stated to get 10 years out of the pump? I really don't know. All I can do is look at the numbers and the above scenario would be over the manufacturer's recommendation and be beyond my comfort zone. If we ignore the manufactures suggestions and only look at the pump curve, the pump would put out about 5.5 CFM at 5.5 psi. That sounds real nice, but "for how long will it do that?" is the unanswered question.

Journey's advice for moving the pump closer to the pond is good stuff. It would solve the noise issue and get your pump closer to a good pressure zone (closer - keyword). Does it get it under the 4.3 Max Continuous Operating Pressure? The only way for me to verify that would be to test all the components set up in real life. My gut says, no, but guts are not always right. I moved my pump to the pond to keep it from being in my shop.


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Originally Posted by Journeyman
Welcome to the forum!
You'll get some great advice here, and some... not so great.

You're average depth of 8 feet, is a good place to locate your diffusers. Putting them at your deepest holes (12 feet) is ill-advised. Reason being, to maintain some sort of thermocline, for fish health.

You mentioned, loudness and energy efficiency. Those things, as you know, make the Hiblow pump a strong candidate, as does your 8 foot depth.

Your pond would do well with 3 diffusers, I recommend the Matlala. The 1" main line run for that length is good. The HD 200 you mentioned will easily do the job. I run the 120LL, and really like it, costs about 75% less to run than the Gast pump, mentioned above. The LL stands for Long Life, it's has upgraded internal components. This summer marks 5 years without a rebuild for me, it's running 4 heads near the depth you should be running yours.

If it were me running a ditch 600 feet, I'd throw a wire in there for an outlet near the pond and locate the pump there. Maybe add a light post down there as well. The Hiblow is outdoor rated and will withstand the elements, although a small doghouse over it wouldn't hurt.

For late Spring/Summer/Early Fall, running the diffusers in the deepest part of the pond IS recommended, and that is to disrupt the thermocline that has anoxic water in it to promote the aerobic bacteria to work at digesting any accumulated muck. Once the water cools down in the Fall to the 50's or 40's, shut off the deepest diffusers and run the winter diffusers that are in 1/3 to 1/4 the total pond depth once ice forms on the pond. That allows the warmer water (39°F) to stay at the bottom of the pond and create a warm water refuge for the fish.

Since I have never seen any GPH water movement chart for the Matlala diffusers, I'd check the water temp from top to bottom in the pond once it's running for 10 days to see that there is only a few degrees difference in water temp. That will let you know if they are moving enough of the water up to the surface.


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Originally Posted by esshup
[quote=Journeyman]
Since I have never seen any GPH water movement chart for the Matlala diffusers, I'd check the water temp from top to bottom in the pond once it's running for 10 days to see that there is only a few degrees difference in water temp. That will let you know if they are moving enough of the water up to the surface.

I can report about this.
Visually, the Matala diffusers move an amazing amount of water. And I have done temperature readings, which were as concerning as you could imagine, heat wise. During a long hot stretch of weather, I paddled around and took temp readings, compared top to bottom data, and found no more than 2 degrees difference from the 11 foot deep holes where the Matala were located, and top water, 1 degree in some spots.
Temperatures were taken with a Fluke meter, K style thermocouple on a long wire with a clip on sinker.

The findings, along with Bob Lusk's article on the thermocline topic, motivated me to move the diffusers up a couple feet, where they remain.

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Originally Posted by Journeyman
Originally Posted by esshup
[quote=Journeyman]
Since I have never seen any GPH water movement chart for the Matlala diffusers, I'd check the water temp from top to bottom in the pond once it's running for 10 days to see that there is only a few degrees difference in water temp. That will let you know if they are moving enough of the water up to the surface.

I can report about this.
Visually, the Matala diffusers move an amazing amount of water. And I have done temperature readings, which were as concerning as you could imagine, heat wise. During a long hot stretch of weather, I paddled around and took temp readings, compared top to bottom data, and found no more than 2 degrees difference from the 11 foot deep holes where the Matala were located, and top water, 1 degree in some spots.
Temperatures were taken with a Fluke meter, K style thermocouple on a long wire with a clip on sinker.

The findings, along with Bob Lusk's article on the thermocline topic, motivated me to move the diffusers up a couple feet, where they remain.

Give me some numbers temp wise. Texas waters are a lot different than Wisconsin waters, temp wise in the summer.


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Surface temp was - 80*, bottom temp was - 78-79*, this was at the time when Diffusers were in the deepest holes and outdoor temps in the 90s.

About this time a couple years ago, Bob wrote an article where he talked about Aeration and Thermocline temp. The take-away I got from it was, a Thermocline temperature refuge is just as important as Aeration, possibly more so, for fish health.

Makes sense to me, if they have no escape from 80* waters, they'll suffer. Since then, my diffusers are a few feet above the deepest holes, and a timer is enabled when outdoor temps get near 90* for more than a day. In my area, we might get a few weeks a year above 90*. Meaning about 50 weeks a year, it runs 24-7. Only the deepest diffuser is turned off in winter.

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That article cause me to raise one of my three diffusers a foot or two off the bottom because of what you describe. We can get terribly hot in the summer, even at night, and warm the whole pond water up top to bottom with aeration.

A person wants MOST of the water stirred. Gives more area and resourses to the fish community. But from that article they need a refuge they can dip into and cool off.

When we used to scuba dive in the lakes in SW Missouri and NW Arkansas, in the heat of the summer fish would often be found right around the thermocline. I presume it is for the reason we are talking about. The upper water got warmer than they liked so they hung out where they could cool off easily.

Last edited by snrub; 04/19/22 07:03 AM.

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My little 1/4 acre pond does not achieve a thermocline when I run the aeration at 2 turnovers a day even when the diffusers are set no more than 6 foot from the surface (currently one at 6', a second at 4", and the third at 3' - all in the dam half of the pond). The pond depth average is 6-7 foot deep with 30% of it at 10 foot deep. I suspect that achieving a thermocline with aeration requires a sizable pond with a rather flat bottom and high diffusers. My pond has very steep banks and must be conducive to full turn-overs even with high set diffusers. I do my best to control summertime temperatures by achieving a turn over or two at night, hence my need to oversize the system to get a turnover in a few hours for the worst of the summer. I might get a thermocline if I moved the diffusers much closer to the surface, but then I lose much of the water movement that I want for quick turnovers and I lose pond capacity. It's kind of a catch 22. I have stuck with full night time turnovers & no thermocline. No obvious fish kills with water temps in the low 80's, 18" down to the bottom during the heat of the summer. Part of me wants to turn the aeration off for the heat of the summer to see what happens with water temps...I just haven't been able to convince myself to take that risk.


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Just dug into the archives on the article mentioned, it's actually two articles from the same issue.

For anyone interested, July/August 2019.
* Thermocline effects on your ponds life.
* Boiling through hot summer water.

These articles will change they way you look at aeration, and choice of depth for your diffusers.

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A lot of good information in this thread! I am going to need to get a thermometer and DO reader and keep an eye on my pond and make adjustments as needed.

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Thoroughly confused.

1. We WANT to disrupt the thermocline so that oxygen can enter the relatively anoxic waters below the thermocline. but...
2. we WANT a temperature refuge even if the O2 levels might be lower so we don't want to blend water to the point of no temperature difference.
3. We DON'T WANT quick water turnover or too much turnover as then we have superheated water

Is it possible to have a temperature refuge AND prevent the water that is cooler and nearer the bottom be too low in oxygen?

Also for those in northern ponds (wisconsin) why would you run diffuser 24/7 in spring and fall? I can see a shallow water diffuser in winter for warm water refuge and avoid winter kill, I can see additional use in summer to keep up with turning water and maintaining oxygen, but in cool weather in spring and fall the water doesn't have a thermocline and carries sufficient oxygen by nature of increased dissolved O2 capacities in cool water. So why run the aerator 24/7 from say ice out to Mid May or from Sept till ice forms?

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Originally Posted by canyoncreek
Thoroughly confused.

1. We WANT to disrupt the thermocline so that oxygen can enter the relatively anoxic waters below the thermocline. but...
2. we WANT a temperature refuge even if the O2 levels might be lower so we don't want to blend water to the point of no temperature difference.
3. We DON'T WANT quick water turnover or too much turnover as then we have superheated water

Is it possible to have a temperature refuge AND prevent the water that is cooler and nearer the bottom be too low in oxygen?

Here's the thing.
Your water will oxygenated to the depth of your diffusers, and the surface temperature will be there as well, because that's where the thermocline will be.
The depth below the diffuser, will have less oxygen and be cooler. Your fish will go there and enjoy the refuge from the heat periodically, but they will not stay there until they suffocate.

Putting the diffusers at the very deepest part of your pond takes that refuge away. And fish health will suffer as a result.

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Originally Posted by canyoncreek
Thoroughly confused.

Also for those in northern ponds (wisconsin) why would you run diffuser 24/7 in spring and fall? I can see a shallow water diffuser in winter for warm water refuge and avoid winter kill, I can see additional use in summer to keep up with turning water and maintaining oxygen, but in cool weather in spring and fall the water doesn't have a thermocline and carries sufficient oxygen by nature of increased dissolved O2 capacities in cool water. So why run the aerator 24/7 from say ice out to Mid May or from Sept till ice forms?

Probably not entirely necessary to run it 24-7 year round, but I do.
We get a lot of leaves, there was a fish die off with the previous owner, found at spring thaw.
I've successfully removed more than a foot of muck with my methods, and if things are working...

My pump is very efficient and don't mind it running year round. I believe it's actually easier on the pump to keep it running, than cycle it on/off.

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It think the deep water diffuser thing gets pushed around more than it should, by the Anti-Efficient-Pond-Pump guys.
They claim it won't work because your pond has a deep spot. Or some other non-sense. They know better.

These guys were probably in the Anti-LED-bulb crowd at one time too.

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Canyon...

The idea of maintaining a thermocline with aeration must rely on being able to move the thermocline downward in the water column. Moving the diffusers upward enough to not disturb the deepest most waters is said to help maintain a lower level thermocline and improve DO in the upper most water column where DO may not have been as good prior. This would increase the amount of water with DO in the BOW (compared to without aeration), but still have a cool refuge. I have not seen this in my pond, but hear about it here at PB often. This idea sounds like it offers the better of the two worlds without the full benefit of maximizing pond capacity.

Quick water turnovers or too much turn over is not typically an issue unless the water currents cause turbidity or the system has not been brought up slow enough, initially, to prevent the water from going mostly anoxic. What causes the pond water to heat up too much in my pond is running the aeration system during the hot days where the sun heats up the water that the system is moving across the surface. It has little to nothing to do with how much, or how fast the turnover is. It's the exposure to the sun and hot air temps...mostly the sun IMO. I have found that running the aeration system 24/7 offers the best DO levels up until the water at 12-18" down pushes the mid 80's. At that point, I start backing the aeration off during the hottest part of the day. The DO suffers, but I start to see slightly cooler temps below the 18" level...not enough to call it a thermocline, but enough that the fish are not completely surrounded by 83° F water. The surface water gets much warmer during this down time, but the lower levels cool slightly or should I say do not get any warmer. I will wait until well after dark to turn the aeration back on. I think this allows the hot surface water to cool some before getting mixed back into the lower, cooler waters.

I do not believe we could have a thermocline AND have good DO in it as well...At least not on an acceptable budget or even an extremely high pond hobbyist's budget.


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My personal pond is 19' deep when at full pool, even last year with the low water levels it was 13' deep. I run the diffuser on the bottom in the deepest part of the pond all summer long, because I want the highest level of O2 available at the bottom of the pond for the aerobic bacteria to have O2 to help digest organics.

I haven't seen any of my fish (nor my customers fish) suffering from that practice.

A customer has a pond that is close to 30' deep. We have been able to keep trout alive all summer long by running a diffuser at about 1/2 total pond depth and letting the trout bounce between the cooler water below the thermocline and the hotter water above the thermocline. He runs that system plus a surface agitator 24/7.

If someone really wants to have cool water at the bottom of the pond with O2 in it look at Vertex OST aeration technology. They can oxygenate the water below the thermocline without disrupting the thermocline. But the price tag might turn off a high number of pond owners. Since they haven't come out with concrete prices on such a system, lets just say that the systems that I've priced out have had a price tag that was about the same or more than it cost to dig the pond in the first place. BUT you can tailor the O2 levels to whatever you need, AND you can inject alum with it to get your water clarity exactly like you want it. You want 6' of clarity? No problem.


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After some actual measurements I only have 500 feet to go. I was able to source some 8 ga direct burial wire so I am running it 400 feet. I should have @ 6 amps available and the Hiblow 200 pump is only @ 2.5 amps . Will leave me a few amps for a nice 3 head LED flood light and pump for a fish cleaning station. At that point I will plumb the Hiblow with 100' of 3/4 inch ADS to a dual port manifold at my pond waters edge. From there one Matala 11/12 diffuser will be set 75 feet from manifold at 9 feet deep with 5/8 inch line. The second diffuser will be 125 feet away at 5 feet deep with its own 5/8 line. Should turn my pond almost 2 times per day. Gonna run 24/7 and hopefully the muck is helped along with all the other good stuff they do. Keeping a small thermocline just makes sense to me . A cooler place to go in the heat of the summer if needed.

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BTW, As a new owner I thank all of you for the good advice and perspectives.

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Cooler water won't help much if there isn't any O2 in it. I know it's hard to find an O2 meter but see if you can find someone nearby that has one and measure the O2 levels at the different depths. I really don't like to see less than 6mg/l in the areas of least O2.


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Originally Posted by Herdman20
After some actual measurements I only have 500 feet to go. I was able to source some 8 ga direct burial wire so I am running it 400 feet. I should have @ 6 amps available and the Hiblow 200 pump is only @ 2.5 amps . Will leave me a few amps for a nice 3 head LED flood light and pump for a fish cleaning station. At that point I will plumb the Hiblow with 100' of 3/4 inch ADS to a dual port manifold at my pond waters edge. From there one Matala 11/12 diffuser will be set 75 feet from manifold at 9 feet deep with 5/8 inch line. The second diffuser will be 125 feet away at 5 feet deep with its own 5/8 line. Should turn my pond almost 2 times per day. Gonna run 24/7 and hopefully the muck is helped along with all the other good stuff they do. Keeping a small thermocline just makes sense to me . A cooler place to go in the heat of the summer if needed.

Sounds like a solid plan. Congrats!
Since you haven't purchased the pump yet, you might consider downsizing it to the 120LL.


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Fresh water pond tarpon
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by RER, November 4
Thoughts on Design? Pumps/liner?
Thoughts on Design? Pumps/liner?
by ViewsforDays, October 14
Lump on bass.
Lump on bass.
by Dergib, October 9
Possibly My Pond
Possibly My Pond
by retiredtom, August 23

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