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Hi everyone. I'm new here. We dug a 5 acre lake last summer and are waiting for it to fill. We added two large beaches with landscape fabric on each. I have read a few other threads of some people creating berms at the base of their beach to help prevent sand loss. I am getting close to running out of time for getting a berm put in but noted that some users have used concrete blocks but that makes me nervous since I will be having a pier pretty close to my beach. Could I not just pile a 12 inch clay berm instead along the bottom of the beach and pack that down? I presume there would also need to be a cut or groove somewhere in the middle of the berm to allow water runoff from the beach. Otherwise I would guess there would be some erosion. Any tips are welcome!

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You can use a 12" berm at the deep end of the beach to reduce beach material from working down toward the deep zone. I did that and it worked okay. I am assuming that you are referring to the underwater portion of the beach.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 03/11/22 09:32 AM.

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"Beach" is a slightly ambiguous term on Pond Boss.

Is your entire sand beach above the normal water level of your pond? Or do you have sand over fabric that extends a significant distance out into the pond? That will alter the advice.

If your entire beach is "dry", then I think a clay berm would work just fine. It just needs to be far enough onshore so that there is no wave erosion on the back side of your berm.

If you are already committed to equipment for building a berm, then you might consider also landscaping the area up-slope of the beach. I would divert any water run-off from your "yard area" to avoid flows of yard debris onto the beach. That should keep your sand cleaner over time.

I don't think you would even need a water outlet through your clay berm. Any heavy rain directly onto your beach will move right through the permeable beach sand and underlayment and into your pond - without much regard to the "dam" created by your clay berm.

Good luck on your project!

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The entire sand beach is well above the current water level with no fabric extending into the water. With that said, the clay berm would need to be pretty close to the current water's edge or it may be too shallow if I add the berm to raise the bottom of the beach by 12". Doing that as close as I can to the water now may only leave the depth there at about 5 or 6'.

You mentioned that "It just needs to be far enough onshore so that there is no wave erosion on the back side of your berm." I don't think I entirely understand this statement. As the water continues to rise, it will eventually be in contact with the berm. With 5 acres of water, there will almost certainly be some waves. So I'm guessing that may be an issue and the reason why some have chosen to use concrete blocks?

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I would be leery of concrete blocks at the foot of a beach, they can be a bugger to step on or almost step on or slide off of with bare feet, with a good chance of leaving a little skin on the edges, I can almost feel it just thinking about it. if you could make a little berm out of some larger river rock or even 3" limestone would be way more forgiving I would think then blocks. seems like anything 2 to 3" diameter should not erode away if it is several ft under water. jmo


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If you can i would try and divert the water from going directly threw your beach. Not saying go around your pond but if your water shed goes straight over it then it will just make it harder to keep sand there. Maybe create a small damn above your beach area. Just a thought.


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This is not clear. At full pool will there be a sand beach above the water line and sand beach extending out into the pond underwater.?
Is this only a temporary problem during construction?

Last edited by ewest; 03/11/22 11:20 AM.















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I tried to write for clarification, and couldn't even ask my question clearly! (Humans communicating in person >>> typing on the internet.)

Jadog, based upon your response it appears the following two statements are correct:

1.) The entire area of the "beach" is currently dry. Therefore, now is by far the easiest time to perform any necessary construction.

2.) A significant proportion of the "beach" will be underwater when the pond is at "normal" full pool water level. The deepest part of the beach will be at least 5-6' underwater.

If those two statements are correct, then you will get significant beach sand losses in a 5-acre pond due to wind erosion. Basically, the waves will put the sand into suspension, and then gravity will move it down the slope of your underwater shore line. That is what needs to be remedied by any of your preventative measures.

You say you have a pier close to the beach. If people might dive off the end of the pier, then 5' water is too shallow, regardless of any berm or barrier you may build that makes it more dangerous.

If you post a little more info, then some of the experts can probably give you some valuable advice.

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If the beach is out of the pond, I would excavate it to a level base and surround it with a landscape timber border to prevent erosion and sand loss. Short block retaining wall on the uphill side, if needed. Some perforated drain pipe under the geotextile fabric would be a good idea to drain the leveled beach.
If the beach slopes under the water surface, a mound of clay at the bottom edge is a good idea. Floating a log chain offshore can reduce wave erosion, but could block wading access into deeper water. I've heard suggestions to use a trench instead of a mound, but 6 of one, half-dozen of the other. You're gonna suffer sand movement underwater no matter what you do, IMO.

Last edited by Hirsch56; 03/12/22 11:14 AM.

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Diverting water around the beach sounds like a good idea to prevent rain from washing additional water down the beach area. Below is a link to a youtube video of the lake as well as some images to show additional detail. Once the lake is full, I will have about 20' of beach above the water line and another 20-30' below. My dock will extend into the water with one side on the shallow "beach" side and the other will be deep. I will see if we can dig out some additional dirt closer to the beach to get it deeper. It sounds like even a berm won't make that much difference. I could try to bring in some rip rap to build the berm with instead of using clay. I don't know if I could get river rock. I will dam the top side of the beach to route water around the beach area. I'm guessing I'll be losing sand regardless. Also note that this project ended late fall and I have not yet been able to stabilize the soil around the lake by planting grass. Any other ideas are welcome!

YouTube Video of Lake!


Both beaches
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Beach 1 (see blue dashes to indicate berm placement); Also see "L" shape drawing for future dock placement.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Beach 1 (different angle)

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Beach 2
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Beach 2 (different angle)
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Here is an image showing an inlet to the lake from a road tile. This runoff is strictly from 20 acres of wooded field and not farm ground.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Additional image showing an inlet to the lake.
[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

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That is a beautiful body of water Jadog, I would put a subtle berm around the topside of the beaches to divert water from running straight down across it and eroding the sand quite as fast and find something to build a berm of some sorts to hold as much sand as you can at the toe of the beach under water, I do believe tho, under best case scenario, it will be somewhat of an ongoing chore to keep it looking beautiful, such as adding sand periodically. but that's not the end of the world, or too much of a problem, I think you will get tons of enjoyment out of it over the years. Good Luck!


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Throw some erosion mats down in those areas, that will help minimize erosion until you can get grass or cover crops to germinate. Use jute vs. plastic erosion mats.


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Jadog,

1. Thanks for adding all of the pics. You will definitely get more relevant (and better) advice now.

2. What a beautiful pond build! I hope you and your family enjoy it and make great memories!

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Just watched the video. It looks like a new housing community is being developed.

Do you own the entire lake and all of the adjacent real estate, or is it going to be a "community" lake for the development?

If the lake is just for your family, what are the goals? If the lake is for the neighborhood, then there is going to be an even more diverse set of goals for the lake.

You might contemplate your goals for the lake and put them in a new thread. There are lots of experts on Pond Boss that can help optimize the interconnected features to make an enjoyable multi-purpose lake.

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Your water inlet in the last two pictures is clearly going to be an erosion problem. I assume you are intending to use that runoff from the 20 acres of woods to keep your pond full?

Does that water run fairly clean from the woods after a heavy rain? How big is the culvert/road tile where that water passes under the road?

If that water is clean, then you might add some inexpensive corrugated drain tile (flexible pipe) for the last stretch of moving the water from the exit of the road culvert into the pond. Your pipe should enter the pond below your expected normal pool level.

Landscape with a ditch parallel to the road and then run the drain tile 90 degrees into the pond, or do an angled ditch from the culvert towards the pond and then go underground with the pipe for the last portion. (Do whichever path matches your surface landscaping plans better.)

If you size your drain tile pipes to exceed your culvert size, then you shouldn't suffer any more erosion at that location. (Just remember, that the math shows it takes four 6" drain pipes to equal a 12" culvert.)

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It will definitely help that your two beaches ARE NOT perpendicular to the long-axis of your pond!

Wave power is strongly dependent on the fetch of the wind. (A constant 20 mph wind will create MUCH stronger waves at the downwind shore when blowing along the long axis of the lake, compared to a wind direction across the short axis.)

The science of wind-driven waves on sand beaches is very complicated. Under certain wind conditions, your beach will probably encounter some constructive waves. These waves will actually add sand from the deeper water up onto your beach shoreline.

However, most of the time, you will probably have conditions with destructive waves that are moving sand from the shoreline into deeper water.

Therefore, any type of berm you build of solid materials should aid in reducing your sand movement from the beach into deep water. Hopefully, some of the experts on the forum can give you some advice on the best method and materials to build that berm.

I am only throwing in the "science" to help with the task above, and to mention that your beach may also be subject to longshore drift. Due to your beaches being parallel to the long axis of your pond, there will be lots of times where the wind will be creating waves that are moving at an angle close to parallel to your beach. These conditions will also move sand away from your beach. However, instead of moving the sand into deeper water, the sand will be moving to the adjacent shorelines beyond the designed perimeters of your beaches.

The best cure for that problem is to build a peninsula perpendicular to the shore. That would significantly reduce your sand losses AND make for much calmer waters for kids swimming in the waters at your beach area.

Would it help your overall lake design to build a peninsula of land between your beach and the proposed new dock? That would make for calmer conditions in the swimming area AND in the area of the dock. If the dock was pinned to the peninsula (instead of the existing shoreline), it would be easier to quickly transition from shallow water to deep water at the end of the dock.

I hope you enjoy your big lake project!

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I appreciate all the tips. There is a housing development going in around our property but the lake will be for our private use only - not shared. A peninsula around the beach area might have been a good idea, but not sure how I could implement that this late in the project. Still looking for any additional advice on other materials to use for the berm at the toe of the beach.

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Glad to hear you own the entire lake property!

I have expertise in erosion, not in stopping it within a pond. Hopefully, you can get an expert to address that issue.

How expensive was your shoreline rock? I think a big berm of that would be pretty effective.

Maybe install some fabric by hand in the water, just beyond the current edge of your sand. Have a few dump loads of your shoreline gravel dumped right on the fabric. (If they can drive there without getting stuck. If not, then place it with a front-end loader.)

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Make a dirt/clay berm about 1 ft high at the toe of the beach underwater. Compact it. Add sand occasionally at the top of the beach and let it wash down slope. Use a diversion berm to force water away from the top of beach. Use a swimming pool rope with floats to minimize wave action.
















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Good suggestions. It seems our local rock quarry is closed this time of year. I am planning on using a front end loader with tracks to build the berm. If I build from clay/dirt, can I just drive the loader on top of the dirt for enough compaction? Also, could I mix some quickcrete into the top layer of dirt to form a harder outer shell to prevent erosion?

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A track loader does not typically provide enough compaction to seal the core trench in a dam, but should provide more than enough compaction to build a stable underwater berm (IMO). Especially if you build the berm in lifts of 8" and spray enough water to provide optimal compaction of each lift.

How stable will your water level be? A clay berm exposed to air during a drought would probably suffer some significant degradation.

How deep will your berm be below the normal water level? If greater than 3', then there will be very little in the way of erosive forces trying to destroy your berm. I don't think you would get much added benefit from adding in the quickcrete.

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You can also use the bucket on the track loader to help compact the berm that you are building. Put enough down pressure on the berm to raise the front of the track loader up off the ground, roll the bucket back to have it roll over the berm like a rolling pin, that will will help compress the berm but still keep it in place. No need for the concrete over the top, I'd take the Geotextile fabric, and run it up and over the top of the berm and bury the end that is towards the deepest part of the pond under a foot or so of dirt, packing it down with the bucket of the track loader to keep the Geotex fabric in place. The Geotextile fabric will help keep the sand from mixing with the dirt on the bottom of the pond.

When putting down gravel driveways, putting down Geotextile fabric does the same thing, making the gravel driveways last longer by keeping the gravel from sinking down into the dirt.


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Thanks guys! The berm should be at least 5-6' below the surface of the water. I would guess by early summer the water level should be above where I will place the berm at now. However, a drought could certainly impact that and re-expose the berm. I am concerned about the potential erosion with a dirt berm while the lake is filling. I found our local quarry is actually open so I could get a tri-axle load of rip-rap or #1's delivered and then use a bobcat to place them 12" high at the toe of the beach. That seems like it would stand up the best to the possibility of having the berm wash out. Anything else I may not have considered? I'm planning to start this either tomorrow evening or the following day!

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Geotextile fabric placed under the sand and up and over the berm will minimize any soil loss under the fabric. You can get geotextile fabric from HD Supply White Cap in rolls up to 360' long by 15' wide. It's also known as woven or non-woven filter cloth or underlayment cloth. There are many different thicknesses and types. Some types are also used for road underlayment.

The Geotex fabric would be a lot easier to walk on under water than the rocks. grin


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Sounds reasonable. I'll do it that way then and use some landscape fabric over a clay berm with sand to hold it down. I'm really torn but I think I'm going to use clay instead of rock and just compact it down as much as possible. I'll probably cut a channel in the center to allow any water runoff go through the center without eroding the berm. Right now my existing landscape fabric doesn't go that far down the beach to where the berm would be so I'll have to get some more to do that.

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