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When performing an electroshock survey of a lake that is well balanced, what percentage of each size class would you expect or like to see for BG? For instance in the sample of the lake we have, only 2 or 3 bluegill were sampled in 0-3” size glass and none over 7.5” were sampled. I’m sure we are missing quality numbers of the smallest and largest size classes but what percentage in a good lake would you normally see represented in a survey like this? Also what percentage of bass would you like to see of the smallest size class, 0-8”? We had 0 LM in that size class.

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Sounds like a strange situation. Hopefully some experts will chime in!

However, it appears you may be missing some year classes. Does your water level have some big fluctuations during the spawning season?

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There isn't enough information to give an answer. There are so many variables that have to be taken into consideration when e-shocking a pond it's crazy. Time of the year, water temp, amount of cover in a pond, where the cover is, pond depth, pond water clarity, how a pond is constructed (are there areas where the e-shock boat can trap fish so they can't escape the current or does the operator have to drive fast to get fish in the current before they swim away), did a cold front blow through and the fish moved to deeper water, etc., etc., etc.

Is this the first time the pond has been shocked? If not, when was the last time and what changed in the fishery?


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Several variables--first, the time of year. If the survey is conducted in the fall, you'll see different size classes of fish compared to what you see in the spring.

The survey's job is to get enough fish from samples to judge the overall condition of the fishery. For example, if the majority of bass captured are in the 10-14" size class and relative weights are 80-90, and we see two size classes of bluegills such as 1-2" fish and some 5-6" fish, that tells us something. But, if we capture 5 different size classes of bluegills and five or six size classes of bass and they bass are 92-95 relative weight, that tells us something else. When I evaluate a fishery, I'm not as concerned about what we don't see as I am what we actually capture. We want to capture enough fish for statistical confidence and to judge ratios of each species and then compare all the data to draw conclusions.


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He can teach to catch fish...
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The survey was done in mid May in Nebraska, relative weights were not provided by the sampling entity only lengths numbers in classes. What I caught and measured this past spring and summer had very few bass over 95% RW. Most bass were in the 80-93 percent RW range.

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Mark,

Do your BG usually spawn sufficiently before Mid-May to yield results of YOY in a survey?

I would like to know more about your pond. For example, how old is it from its initial stocking? Also I am interested in understanding largest lengths recorded and whether you think these are part of the initial stocking. Initial stocking rates and your management through culling/harvest are also of interest.

With regard to RW, you should also try to understand what the Fall RW's are for more context. Fall RW may be better than spring/early summer RW.

Added:

You didn't mention your goals but did mention "balanced" suggesting this may be a goal. There are different perspectives on what "balanced" is. Here it seems to be that the predators are growing at an acceptable rate (implies good RW) but in academia and for the most part DOWs ... balanced is a condition where large proportions of predator and prey are of harvestable size. For the later, it is assumed that harvest maintains a condition where fish may grow from year to year.

Last edited by jpsdad; 02/20/22 11:26 AM.

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It’s an old sandpit. In excess of 30 yrs I’d guess, it’s community lake with an HOA, I don’t think there is a lot of harvest. Bass aren’t allowed to be kept yet we have relatively low bass numbers with lots of crappie and catfish along with rough fish and gizzard shad. Little dense cover. I’m thinking the bluegill we’re done spawning buy mid may but likely not large enough to be surveyed . Overall bluegill growth rates based on the looks of the fish has been low amd I’d expect the previous years bluegill not to have exceeded 3” growth in a year but I could be incorrect. I’ve only lived here a year. We don’t have good habitat for good survival rate of frye. I think most get eaten quickly due to lack of dense cover. In high water years there are some cattails but not a lot. I consider balance as far predator to prey ratio. I believe we have more predators than our forage base can sustain.

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Mark, the rough fish, even the CC, are a headwind for the LMB. There are a lot of species co-inhabiting and by Fall each year, they probably reach or exceed carrying capacity. You didn't mention how large the lake is but just calling it a lake implies some size to it. This lake in some respects reminds me of my home town's community lake. It had all the species you mentioned. It just really hard to get everyone on the same page on a body of water like that. Ours was probably larger than yours but was over 300 acres. My approach to it was to enjoy it for what it was. I harvested hundreds of crappie a year and released all bass. The crappie harvest that I implemented (as well as many others) didn't seem to make a lot of difference in crappie size though I am sure their condition and size was in part improved by it. When a lake is full of 8" crappie a half inch increase in length is a 20% increase in weight. So even taking 20% of the crappie biomass yearly, which I am sure we were not, doesn't make a huge difference in size. Small enough anyway it can go unnoticed without taking meticulous metrics. And then there is the issue of recruitment.

I will mention that LMB in our lake were not high in number. They grew slowly to about 16" but after achieving this length could attain weights of 6 to 8 lbs. They were northern strain and this was in northern OK (almost KS). These fish were most easily caught at night especially the three hours before day break. If you caught one large fish > 20" in an outing then it was a great trip but most fish were less than 16 inches. When you are sharing, you may have to roll with punches and enjoy the water inspite of its shortcomings. On the other hand, if you can organize community action the possibilities can be expanded. The head wind you will be dealing with are those who enjoy the water as it is and do not want to expend funds for an overhaul.


It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


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jpsdad, the reason why the LMB in that lake grew slowly to 16" but grew better once having attained that size is probably gape size. Larger fish are able to eat a larger and wider variety of food.

I believe that is why HBG will grow faster than regular BG for the first few years, then regular BG seem to overtake the HBG and surpass them size wise.


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Hello everyone. I hope you don’t mind an off topic question: I just had a pci inspection perth done on my new build and it uncovered defects in the existing pond. Is the builder means to fix these?

Last edited by esshup; 02/24/22 01:45 AM. Reason: Removed link
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Originally Posted by wabuilding
Hello everyone. I hope you don’t mind an off topic question: I just had a pci inspection perth done on my new build and it uncovered defects in the existing pond. Is the builder means to fix these?

Hi wabuilding. We don't allow links for advertising unless the company is listed in the Pond Boss Resource Guide. Contact the Pond Boss Office to become an advertiser.

You should know if the builder is responsible to fix it because you are the testing company. I will leave this post in place for 24 hours, and if you do not contact the Pond Boss Office in regards to advertising on the forum in the next 24 hours your post will be deleted and you will be banned from making any further posts. The Pond Boss Office number is 1-903-564-6144 They should be in the office between 9am and 4pm Central Standard Time, they are in Sadler Texas, United States.


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Originally Posted by esshup
We don't allow links for advertising unless the company is listed in the Pond Boss Resource Guide. Contact the Pond Boss Office to become an advertiser.

esshup (and other moderators),

I was not aware of this rule.

I have sent posters to esshup's link when they had questions I was pretty sure he could answer. (I have also done this with other links I pulled from the Pond Boss forum.)

However, the other day I responded to a question about local tilapia suppliers with links to two nearby fish suppliers. A few other people responded with additional links.

Did we break the rule? All of the replies were from long-established members that do not have any apparent ties to commercial ventures.

Is it OK for people like me to be "helpful", and if we cross the line to promoting non-advertising commercial ventures, then the moderators can delete posts as needed?


P.S. I could not find the Pond Boss Resource Guide. Where is that listed?

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Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Thanks, TJ!

His link goes to the Resource Guide that is a product of Pond Boss Magazine.

There is a large list of categories that you can click to open to find products or services.

I believe that resource is even available to people that are not subscribers to the magazine.



P.S. I highly recommend getting a subscription to the magazine. It is a great resource AND it helps support the online forum.

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FishingRod:

Here is what Bob has had in the forum guidelines for years.

"Quite often, we'll see a new member (or existing members) selling their wares or services.
We only allow that of our approved advertisers. We are careful to make sure our advertisers are quality and meet our expectations.
If you have a product or service you'd like to promote on the forum, please send an email to info@pondboss.com and get permission before you promote or add information to your signature line or add a link to your website.
We'll protect our paying advertisers and people we know.
For our approved advertisers, you guys already know how to play.

If someone breaks this rule the moderators will delete all links and references to your business.

In addition, some members solicit business via PM's (private message). These are not authorized, either. If you receive a PM from someone trying to solicit you, please do your due diligence. First, make sure they are on the Pond Boss "approved" list. That's this link, the Pond Boss resource guide. http://www.pondboss.com/resource_guide.asp
We vet all those people in the Resource Guide and have a high level of confidence of their capabilities. Also, banner ads at the top of the forum page have met with our approval.

If you are solicited by ANYONE who isn't on that list, please send us an email at info@pondboss.com and let us know. We want to police this site and make sure reputable people are soliciting."


A poster on here that says "I used this or this is available here" isn't breaking the rules, but it's a fine line - it's all in context of the post too. We moderators can look at things behind the scenes so to speak to see if the person it a spammer doing advertising or if what they posted is legit. In the case above, the poster was the company that was linked to in the post. THAT violated Bob's rules. Even though we (Hoosier Pond Pros) are a paid advertiser with Pond Boss, I think it's tacky to constantly push your business and not actually help out on the forum. While it would be perfectly "legal" for us to say "Hey, you want a Texas Hunter Feeder? Go look at us, here's a link to our on-line store" I don't do that, I just feel slimy doing that. BUT I have no problems recommending someone who I've had good business dealings with, or who have a great product AND helps pond owners, like TJ. There are a lot of places that just want to sell stuff and don't service the customers, which takes time, but OTOH, it helps them understand why certain things are recommended. For instance, why recommend fluridone to treat Eurasian Water Milfoil vs. 2,4-D.

Only once I got short with a one time customer. They'd constantly call for recommendations on what herbicide to use, how to do this or that years after the one time purchase. They called one day asking what herbicide to use on a certain plant, I told them, and said that we had it and could ship it to them. They call back a week later and ask how to use it. (I knew that they didn't buy from us, I had just looked at the store). I said one of the services that we do is help our customers find the correct product to use and help them use it if they have questions. I saw that you didn't buy it from us, did you call the place that you bought it and ask them? The phone got really, really quiet. After that the 1/2 dzn phone calls a week dropped to maybe one every few weeks.

Last edited by esshup; 02/24/22 03:03 PM.

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esshup,

Thanks for taking the time to write up a comprehensive reply!

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"Only once I got short with a one time customer. They'd constantly call for recommendations on what herbicide to use, how to do this or that years after the one time purchase. They called one day asking what herbicide to use on a certain plant, I told them, and said that we had it and could ship it to them. They call back a week later and ask how to use it. (I knew that they didn't buy from us, I had just looked at the store). I said one of the services that we do is help our customers find the correct product to use and help them use it if they have questions. I saw that you didn't buy it from us, did you call the place that you bought it and ask them? The phone got really, really quiet. After that the 1/2 dzn phone calls a week dropped to maybe one every few weeks."

Man you said it all there.. It's even worse if you develop a relationship and one side starts using that.. Hard to control..
I remember a guy that called me a while back about this/that and the other and he wanted some fish from me but my first years production was lower (way lower) than expected and I couldn't fill all the orders I had, I felt terrible. The one guy ran a pond management business (is listed in our (PB) guide) and had Texas Hunter products, I thought man, I really need to buy a TH feeder or 2, I wonder if this guy will even sell to me, and then I decided..oh wait??? Scott, THAT WAS YOU!!!!!!!! tired grin grin grin
Laugh Scott.. Please Laugh.. I couldn't resist.. I can assure you I will NEVER buy a feeder from anyone other than www.hoosierpondpros.com, #bigscott #greatdude #luvmybuddytjtoo

Last edited by Snipe; 02/25/22 04:57 PM.
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Kenny, I sure hope he laughs.

Scott does have moderator privileges and you are not banned from the forum ... yet!

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Kenny, I know how that is. Just put me on your list for this upcoming year. That customer of mine is pretty insistent that I get those SMB for him, even if it is the adults from OK.. You are only a 940 mile, 15 hour drive one way from here. I could swing thru OK on the way, as I really need to get some of those CNBG too. I wasn't able to get them this past Fall. If I did that it would be a 1,355 mile, 20.5 hour trip one way.

And people wonder why fish cost what they do..... LOL


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You are #1 and #2 on the list, Scott!

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Originally Posted by Snipe
You are #1 and #2 on the list, Scott!

Thank you sir!!!


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