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Originally Posted by canyoncreek
Is a CD made out of acrylic? I"m thinking cheapest option is a stack of blank CDs or DVDs? I see you can get colored ones (blue, or they make ones that look like LP records with black outside and colored interior ring). In my pond we get enough silt that what ever color the disk is it wouldn't stay that color very long. I'll search for other spawning structures too. Probably any plastic would work.

Males in spawning color are so beautiful!

I have waded out to my spawning structures which I mounted on a threaded rod with hex nut in between each CD and then pushed the long end of the threaded rod into the pond bottom. I could then rock the platter stack back and forth in the water to try to clean the silt off the disks and presumably the eggs. I don't know if silt prevent eggs from hatching and the silt comes from rain events with runoff into the pond. This is where if I could figure out how to keep a little water moving over the spawning structures it would probably help the eggs survive.
If they have a center label, I found that peeled up within a few weeks.
I used 1/2" ready rod and drilled 1/2" holes in pallet beams. a double nut on top allowed me to take a ratchet and drive the RR into the hole without stabbing a hole in my sealed pond. When I did this I found 100 packs of blank CD's at wally world on clearance for 7-8$/100. Now, I can't say that I had any success so I.m the wrong guy to suggest what works.

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RAH #544315 02/20/22 01:17 PM
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How would something like two 1/2" sheets of concrete leaned into each other and wired together at the top work? Was thinking it could be scored with a concrete blade (circular saw)? Would this be to wide? Some diamond blades are narrower. What is the ideal width?


It isn't what we don't know that gives us trouble, it's what we know that ain't so - Will Rogers


RAH #544330 02/21/22 12:52 AM
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According to Brian Zimmerman the width of crevice appeared to be more important than depth, but looking at some bark structures, 3/8-1/2' for depth would be sufficient- I believe. The actually egg laying I was able to get in the CD structures in aquarium seemed they chose the gaps of about 3/16", a few had eggs in near 1/4" gap. The tighter ones I never seen any eggs.

Last edited by Snipe; 02/21/22 12:55 AM.
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RAH #544348 02/21/22 12:40 PM
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This is all great info! Lets all try different things using the experience documented here.
We will find out if smooth concrete with channels sawed in it work
We can try rough concrete like concrete block with channels saw in it
We can try different types of plastic/acrylic and different colors.

I will continue to try the grooves in the tread in my tires (obviously I only can choose black in color)
I will make some more plastic disk or square in stacks.

I also plan to pull my pallet structure out and use a saw to add 3/16 to 1/4" grooves on the top side. It sounds like stacking 1/2" sheets of concrete would be wise since they like horizontal grooves but in various heights from bottom of the pond to top so your vertical concrete will give both horizontal grooves but will allow them to present at various depths.

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RAH #544351 02/21/22 01:56 PM
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I have found that groves or gaps over 1/4" wide rarely get eggs when smaller or narrower gaps are present. Shape of the spawning device might play a role but I doubt it. IMO instinct tells the male SFS to not establish nor defend territory and for females to not lay eggs in wide spaces because way too many predators including many species of invertebrates have access to eat the eggs. The best gap spacing in my experience has consistently been 2 to 5 mm wide. Optimum gap width is easy to test. Build a spawning device with plates or disks that have different widths between the disks. During spawning season lift and check it where the eggs are being deposited. Been there done that using disk spacing from 2mm to 1/2" and IMO the research studies and literature are mostly correct the spacing of 2 to 5mm spaces will collect the most eggs.

In Snipe's case that he did not see very much recruitment in the pond from his spotfins breeders is probably because the newly hatched SFS fry were being eaten by adult minnows or shiners or the eggs for some reason were not hatching. SFS will eat their own eggs if the eggs are exposed and not well back into the crevice. SFS are prolific. The neat thing about SFS is when the spawning devices have lots of eggs, the device can be moved to a clean fish free pond for the eggs to hatch and fry are able to grow. I have grown lots of SFS in ponds with FHM and BNM present and no other fish. I think most all other shiners who eat zooplankton and small invertebrates will eat lots of newly hatched SFS. The SFS grower in my area had very good success growing SFS in his production pond until GFS invaded and production went down to almost zero. A pond draw down, renovation and a restart occurred this fall.

If you have adult SFS and with the correct spawning structure in a pond and you are not seeing abundant small SFS in mid to late summer, something somewhere is remiss. Remiss: careless in, or negligent about, attending to a task or effort.

Earlier questions from Stressless see below for answers
1. ? is there a 'sweet spot' on the number of crevices, ie., platters that should be in the stack
- Soak the platters in a watershed that has spotfins or any known shiner that is a crevice spawner. Bacially these are shiners in the scientific genus Cypinella.
2? How often should they be checked, moved to the pond
- remove the Platter Stack and bring back via a aerated conveyance if traveling a far distance such as more than 50 miles. Just eggs on a spawn device do not consume a lot of dissolved oxygen.
3? do the Platter Stacks need to remain vertical or can they be laid horizontal for transportation
- submerge platter stack in pond. Try to keep the spawn device off of the sediment on the pond bottom.
4? How long should they be soaked in the pond?
5? Any guidance on where in pond the platters should soaked for the eggs to hatch, deep/shallow water, shade/sun?
?6. how long from Fry to Breeding for SFS - in other words should I leave platters in the pond with no adults over summer or keep trying for eggs?

Thanks much Stressless/

Acrylic platters I’m not sure what these look like except those on eBay.
Aren’t they expensive? Plus the ones I found on eBay are shaped like paper plates that have the wide perimeter flair; bad idea IMO. As some have mentioned IMO easiest, most convenient plates or disks for me are cheap CDs. No preparation, cutting, or drilling is involved. You can also cut plastic sheeting into rectangles or squares.
1?. Number of crevices is directly related to the number of spawning adults and number of eggs desired. Any number of disks more than 2 individual disks to create a narrow crevice will collect eggs. Obviously the more disks in the stack the more egg laying surface that is present. One stack of 10-12 CDs can collect a few thousand eggs.

2?Frequency of checking devices?. During SFS spawning season, devices in the wild habitat for collecting eggs,, I think devices should be checked every two to four days.

3.? Do stacks need to remain vertical or can they be laid horizontal for transportation?
- submerge platter stack in pond? Just keep eggs submerged so they do not dry out.

4.? How long should they be soaked in the pond? This depends on water temperature and age of the eggs when collected; hatching usually requires 5-8 days.

5.? Any guidance on where in pond the platters should soaked for the eggs to hatch, deep/shallow water, shade/sun? If the pond has no predators eating plankton or fish fry, then soaking for hatching anywhere in the pond will be okay. I have hatched SFS eggs in a bucket of aerated pond water. Eyed eggs are best to use for bucket hatching and water exchanges are helpful prior to hatching. Shallow water has the warmest water for egg development. If the pond has turbid silty water, where silt can collect on and inside the plates then the stack is best placed so it receives some current and well oxygenated water from an aerator. In ponds containing fry predators, IMO the more dense habitat in shallow water the better. Newly hatched poorly swimming fry are very easy food items.

6.? How long from Fry to Breeding for SFS - in other words should I leave platters in the pond with no adults over summer or keep trying for eggs? IMO fry should be at least a full 1 year old to spawn, although those grown indoors could spawn less than 12 months old. Some websites say SFS do not spawn until 2 yr old.

Research and my experience shows the preferred gap spacing between plates is 1.5 to 3mm, however the narrowest spacing more quickly gets packed with sediment from turbid water and/or growths of filamentous algae. Depending on water quality the devices after a month or two can become very dirty or covered with FA. I have put dense FA infested spawning devices in a tilapia cage and the device was quickly cleaned. I prefer 2mm to 4mm. Spaces or gaps more that ¼ inch are too wide and uncommonly used for egg deposits. My SFS readily spawn in between clear CDs and white plastic sheeting. Other colors will also receive eggs. I hang my devices from the dock with 6” to 18” of water over the devices. Most eggs seem to be collected on devices hung with water 6”-12” on top of the stack. Those in 3ft of water receive only a few eggs.
I collect and clean the spawning devices each fall or spring prespawn. IMO clean surfaces for egg deposition result in best egg hatching. I hand clean my all my devices and a pressure washer works well.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 02/21/22 08:24 PM.

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RAH #544409 02/22/22 01:50 PM
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Thank you Bill. Can't wait for the ice out and a bit of warmth, the platters I ordered are "in the mail"! designed my stream weights and connection system over the weekend.


8 Ponds in Mid-East Ohio, three streams that merge to 1.

Fishbowl Pond - 1.5 acre, family swimming hole, 22'
Figure 8 Pond - 1.25 acre, 12'
Crescent Pond - 2 acre 11'
RAH #544429 02/22/22 08:13 PM
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Stressless, please share picture of your platters or your assembled spawning devices if you can!

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RAH #544442 02/23/22 10:43 AM
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Hello.

Thia spring I will compare.

A place with only artificial structures.

Another place with artificial structures and tree branches.
A+

RAH #544532 02/24/22 05:42 PM
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Bill - Two more questions as I haven't been able to find a ref for these on the 'net'.

Q) How far in, inches or mm, do the eggs of the SFS "usually" go into the crevasses, from the edge of the two platters making a crevasse inward towards center? A guess like 85-95% of the eggs are found within 1" or 2.54cm from the crevasse edge.

Q) Did the distance from the crevice edge to the internal stop, the PVC or threaded rod or whatever center support edge. Did that distance make any difference
in the selection of crevice spawn choice.

That way I'll know the internal distance for the internal support to edge of the crevice edge and can maximize the surface area for strength and material used.

Much appreciated!


8 Ponds in Mid-East Ohio, three streams that merge to 1.

Fishbowl Pond - 1.5 acre, family swimming hole, 22'
Figure 8 Pond - 1.25 acre, 12'
Crescent Pond - 2 acre 11'
RAH #544539 02/24/22 08:02 PM
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Spotfin Questions
Q1 - "How far in, inches or mm, do the eggs of the SFS "usually" go into the crevasses, from the edge of the two platters making a crevasse inward towards center?"
I mostly use CD disks and I see eggs inward to the central post which is 2".

Q2 - "Q) Did the distance from the crevice edge to the internal stop, the PVC or threaded rod or whatever center support edge. Did that distance make any difference in the selection of crevice spawn choice?"
Distance of outer edge to internal (stop) post does not seem to make a lot of difference for placement of eggs in my experience. However I have not done a lot of experimenting with this topic. Range of diameter or width of disks or plates that I have used varied between 3" to 6".
Egg placement IMO is primarily based on width of space between disks or width of the crevice.


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