Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Wildlife Management Anyone else have CRP?

I wasn’t sure where to put this question. I picked wildlife management, but if there’s a better place, moderators please move it.
I received an email from the USDA a few days ago about enrolling acres into CRP. Right now half of the 10 acres that drain into my pond comes from soybean fields. A few ruts have formed through the years from runoff, that I’m sure is contributing silt into the pond. I set up an appointment next week to meet with the agent that helps enroll ground into the program. I’m pretty sure my little 10 acres will qualify. (The rest of all the ground surrounding the pond is in timber, plus another 50 acres).
I think I could improve the ground for wildlife habitat through the right grasses with CRP. It would eliminate the silt coming into the pond, or greatly reduce it. I’m a little concerned that it will reduce the runoff so much, that I’ll have trouble keeping the pond full. I still have a very small leak.
Just curious, for those that already have CRP, what costs am I looking at? I think it’ll be kind of expensive to get what they want planted, in there. Am I missing anything? Right now with soybeans every year, we are attracting plenty of deer, but not a lot of turkeys. I’d like to improve that. Hopefully we can help both. Any input, suggestions or recommendations appreciated.
Thanks,
Jeff

IME there seem to be different kinds/levels of CRP enrollment, which seem to vary (at least) from state-to-state.

We have all our grass acres in CRP, which didn't take any special efforts planting-wise. We just left what was already growing there (orchard grass, brome grass, timothy, assorted legumes, and various weeds in larger concentrations than I would prefer). There are some restrictions, like "don't mow it all at the same time", which don't really affect our use of the acreage for hayfields and/or pastures (in our 60's, with day jobs, we're doing well to get about 1/6 of what we bale done in a week - weather permitting).

I know from watching farmtubers on Youtube that completely different requirements/restrictions exist elsewhere. So hopefully someone from Mizzoo can chime in; otherwise you may have to find out by going through the application process (which may not be successful the first time - they only have so much budget wrt money/acreage to enroll each year).

Good luck - reducing silt input by converting row crops to grasses is a good idea IMHO.

Thank you sir. The USDA put a different spin on the email this year regarding enrollment. I don’t want to get into politics, but this years email from the USDA had a big emphasis on global warming, and CRP’s roll in helping. The only political spin on that, is that there may be more $$ available. I’ll find out next week when I meet with the USDA. Two separate programs for us, one for converting crop land, and one for converting grassland. Looks like two different application processes.
Thanks again. If it will help wildlife, keep silt out of the pond, and isn’t too much work after it’s all in, and isn’t too crazy expensive, I don’t see a downside.
I’m retired, so I do have the time to be there. I think my little tractor can handle a planter to get the seed in. Hopefully they will help or at least advise on getting soil prepped etc..

Our primary goal was reducing the tax evaluation on our farm. Our evaluation under CRP is $250/acre, lower than it would be as pasture/hayfield (which Ohio sticks with the figure used for row crops). And the CRP tax rate remains even if we stop using the land for livestock production.

There is also a small stipend per acre paid out.

Oh my gosh. Missouri hasn’t gone there yet on taxes. That will hammer land values when they do.
Taxes on the farm are a very small fraction of what they are for a home near St Louis. That’s a whole different topic though.

Just curious back on CRP, does the USDA agent come out to inspect CRP regularly? One of the reasons why we did not pursue USDA assistance with the pond, was we didn’t want them coming around all that often.
Thx

Here they come out to ensure that the planting was done and then again to see how it's growing. Then after that I don't think they show up once a year.

Thanks for starting this thread SetterGuy!

I predict you will get a lot of views if you keep posting all of the steps if you choose to continue with the process.



Reducing siltation to your pond is definitely a positive good. But you do not want to lose too much of your incoming water.

How about trying a small experiment first? You could put on your box scraper behind your tractor and fill in the erosion ruts and build a few spots that are perfectly level. (I would make them only wide enough for 2-3 passes with your seed drill.) They also need to be "at grade" so you don't make mini dams and cause wet spots in your field.

The dirty runoff from the bean field after big rain events would slow down when passing through your "grass bands". Hopefully, most of the silt load would be dropped in those areas. Likewise, most of the incoming water should still make it to your pond - rather than being lost to ground infiltration.


** Our local conservation district (in Kansas) actually has a nice no-till grass drill available for rental. You might ask your USDA person about that resource availability in your area.

I definitely want to increase the turkey population at our place.

Our turkeys seem to prefer the areas of open ground adjacent to short grass adjacent to heavy cover. There are times in the spring when they are all on the bare ground eating some bug that hatched early. A few weeks later, they are then in the short grass eating whatever hatched next. (I need to do a lot of clearing in my overgrown shelter belt trees because the turkeys roost on my neighbors property.)

I did deep disk a few areas of grass three years ago in the fall. The turkeys loved the bare dark earth in the spring since it warmed up first and became their earliest hunting ground.

However, this hurt my warm season grasses. That area now shows more cool season grasses and weeds. I am NOT a smart enough land manager to know if this will turn out to be a long-term benefit to our turkeys (and quail and pheasants) or not.

I am concerned that it will reduce runoff too much. When we have a good hard rain the pond comes back fast. I get good runoff from the timber, and it doesn’t look like too much dirt coming in with it.
I have a meeting at the USDA office next Thursday. I’ll post back here on what I find out.
The idea of just grassing in the draws and ditches is a good one. I have access to a box blade, and my tractor is large enough to get it done. Hmmmm..
Thx

Conventional wisdom shows grassland having more runoff than timber, less than rowcrops.

Theo is correct about the runoff numbers for different types of vegetation.

The good news is that the runoff numbers are based on the vegetation for the entire watershed.

Obviously you will still get the exact same runoff from the bean field regardless of what you do on your property as regards grass plantings. IMO, putting 10 acres in CRP will only result in a minor diminution in the amount of water making it to your pond.

However, it is quite easy for me to be wrong in theory! That is why I proposed that you try a little experiment first - and determine what best fits your needs.

If your pond still stays full in summer after planting a little grass, then you can probably go the full CRP route if you determine that is in your best interests.

[quote=Theo Gallus]

Excellent, I should know better, with my limited knowledge to even make assumptions. If anything it might “help” runoff vs row crops. Missouri Dept of Conservation is also a very good resource for helping with these decisions. I’m having them come out also.
Thx

I have several acres of CPR for over 24 yrs on east and west borders of a creek. I had help in the spring planting warm season grasses of switch grass, big and small bluestem and Indian grass. Switch and Indian grass thrives the best. I am not allowed to mow it until early August unless noxious weeds are problematic. The first year I used a special herbicide to reduce weeds because supposedly the new grasses were not real tolerant to 2-4D. Now I use 2-4D as the main herbicide to control weeds mostly thistles. The grasses soon developed dense enough growth that thistles are about the only weeds that persist. A year or two ago Soil& Water and FSA (farm service agency) of USDA promoted or required the planting of milk weeds grown in flower flats for the CRP areas. Probably a wild idea from a government someone behind a desk. I was told they were providing the plants free. I am not sure if this is still an ongoing program. Since then I was not notified to get my plants. I hope the program was a failure. My farmer friend was required to and planted some. HIs all died due to too dry of ground at planting.

If you have a watershed below the field, it may qualify for WRE as well.. similar to CRP-same grass but 2900/acre to grass uphill of the watershed. I've got 12 acres CRP and 11.5 in WRE program.

Bill, do you burn the CRP field every other year in the Spring? That would help stop any saplings that wanted to take root.

FishinRod, if you want to help Turkeys, start trapping raccoons, possums and skunks. (Feral house cats too) That will help egg and poult survival.

We encourage milkweeds (several species) on our place to help the monarch butterflies since milkweed is their only food. IMO, it is best to do this so farmers don't need to grow them in their crop fields (monarchs could become an endangered species). The current encouragement of planting milkweed and other pollinator-friendly plants on set aside land seems to be working. We should all care about the environmental stabilizing power of biodiversity. The reason farmers are paid to set aside land is because it benefits us all.

The CRP can ruin your runoff. When 200 acres of farm land here in west Tx was taken out of cotton and put into CRP 20 years ago the 16 acre tank went dry and stayed that way. Land is now out of CRP and the tank is half full and stocked.

I was on the property when the pond was being constructed and after it was finished. I seriously doubt that SetterGuy will have a big difference in water runoff going to his pond if he puts that field into CRP. I think the CRP might even help mitigate the sediment that runs into the pond from that field.

This is a big concern. My brother in law, out in KS has all warm season grasses above his pond, and it greatly reduced runoff.
I guess though, that grass cover has better runoff than crops. (From what’s posted above). I’ll see what the Mo Dept of Conservation guys say.
It would definitely help sediment from coming in, but in 7 years, I’m not seeing a whole lot of silting in. Lots of leaves, but that’s another story..

You can fix the leaf problem with a chainsaw! LOL

Haha! Indeed. I’m thinking (I know that’s dangerous) that maybe all that shade helps keep the water cooler. Cooler water is more comfortable for swimming, and maybe is better for SMB and YP?? Plus they look good. We are tree huggers.

BINGO... this CRP holds soils, reduces runoff speed by slowing it down, yes, but when it slows down, sediment falls out and what does come on through is less likely to be "hot" nutrient water. The entire original purpose of CRP was to control erosion when it was the "soil bank" program.
That's also what the WRE program is for around wetlands...keep the water, stop the siltation problem-it works very well.

Well, I met with the USDA agents yesterday. I’m not optimistic about getting my 10 ac enrolled in the CRP program. My acres scored 156. Last year it took 170 to get in. We shall see. They just follow a computer generated formula based on soil type and satellite photos. No changes allowed.
I walked the pond today. Snow is melting off, so I’m getting a little runoff. With the ice it gives me a fairly clear pic of the water quality coming in. Hopefully I can get pics to load.

Does your scoring report show the factors and their weighting?

If so, could you black out your personal identifiers and post your scorecard on Pond Boss?



If no CRP is allowed, then I still think you should run a small experiment. Plant 1-2 grass strips and observe your results.

I’ll look it over. It’s several pages. If there’s a recap page I’ll post it.

There’s really not a summary page, info is spread out over several pages, and most info is coded. I’m not sure the usda would want it publicly out there anyway. Maybe after April, and they’ve made their decision.
Sorry about that.

No worries, and thanks SetterGuy.

I know you had to jump through a lot of hoops to try and get a little ground into the CRP program. I was just hoping we could piggyback on your learning curve for anyone else that is going to try and enroll land in the future!


P.S. Not a big fan of governmental agencies that make the process deliberately opaque.

I’m jumping in on a webinar through Quail Forever. Here’s the link if you’re interested. For me the ideal cover will attract deer, turkey and quail. We will see. Hopefully I can ask a little more about the process of getting selected. And my score of 156, vs last year’s level of 170 to get in.

https://us02web.zoom.us/webinar/register/WN_Yf2XJH46RNer0Wz-kGxkwQ