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azteca, I can't get that link to work.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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The link worked okay for me. Interesting read.


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I need to update or add to this resource because there are now 3 separate recognized sub species of SMB.
Research suggests that most populations, including SE Kansas, MO, AR and OK are a mixed hybrid representation per DNA sampling.
OK is trying their hardest to keep the Wachita strain separate from the Ozark strain but in 2020 the hybrids were already confirmed present in at least 6 states, yet some states further north haven't actually performed much DNA testing yet.
I can say that from my research I've found documentation that provides some visual ques to ID. 1 is length of Jaw bone and where the actual bone extends in relation to the eye. 2, southern and southern/northern hybrids typically have 12-13 soft dorsal rays, the true Northern strain tends to exhibit mainly 14 soft dorsal rays, yet sometimes 13. So there is "some" over-lap that requires DNA testing to provide the answers. A Northern strain at 3lbs has a smaller gape than a southern 3lb fish.
Sorry to rant.. my life has revolved around this specific topic for a couple of years, it's hard not to talk out loud about it!

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Originally Posted by Bill Cody
The link worked okay for me. Interesting read.

I got it. I missed it being a PDF download. Haven't read it yet though.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Snipe, Why is SMB location, identification and prevention of hybridization so critical that it becomes someone's life's work? Where is the urgency (or should I say what would be the financial incentives) to work so hard on this?

How do 'hybrids' spread into other locations? bucket stocking? planting of mis-identified SMB in other lakes? Eggs clinging to Heron legs?

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CC, I have found out that the Arkansas River Strain of SMB don't grow as fast, get as wide, or as tall as the Northern strain, therefore the RW of them never really gets more than 100%. The Arkansas River Strain aren't limited to suppliers down South either (at least one supplier in Ohio has them, but they don't advertise (or maybe don't know) that. SO, if your goal is to grow some large SMB, you need to stock as close to pure Northern Strain as possible.

At least that's my take on it. Snipe might have a different reason.


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It parallels the thought process behind different strains of the same species being relocated to another region. For example, Florida bass won't survive in Indiana. Some intergrade cross might, but then the native genetic strains become compromised. The state of Florida won't allow northern strain largemouth to be stocked south of the Suwanee River. We don't want Coppernose bluegill stocked in Kansas. They die when cold. Same with smallmouth bass. There is certainly a financial incentive that runs parallel to the conservation/stewardship thoughts. Why stock a northern strain of Smallmouth bass, native to Canada and Great Lakes States into water in Missouri? You don't. Job One is understanding there are different strains of the same species of fish and then figuring out which one is best suited (or not) to the region you choose to supply as a responsible hatchery owner.


Teach a man to grow fish...
He can teach to catch fish...
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There is quite a bit of history/writing on different populations of SMB. Not going to get into the question of if they are different strains/sub species/ possible future species etc! IMO adaptive populations is good enough. Best advice - don’t stock outside of the populations adaptive area.

Here is a bit

Evolution
Free Access
SPECIATION IN NORTH AMERICAN BLACK BASSES, MICROPTERUS (ACTINOPTERYGII: CENTRARCHIDAE)
Thomas J. Near, Todd W. Kassler, Jeffrey B. Koppelman, Casey B. Dillman, David P. Philipp
First published: 09 May 2007 https://doi.org/10.1111/j.0014-3820.2003.tb00368.xCitations: 98
PDFPDFTOOLS SHARE
Abstract
Abstract.— The Pleistocene Epoch has been frequently cited as a period of intense speciation for a significant portion of temperate continental biotas. To critically assess the role of Pleistocene glaciations on the evolution of the freshwater fish clade Micropterus, we use a phylogenetic analysis of complete gene sequences from two mitochondrial genes (cytochrome b and ND2), and a fossil calibration of the molecular clock to estimate ages of speciation events and rates of diversification. The absence of substantial morphological and ecological divergence together with endemism of five of the eight species in North American tributaries of the Gulf of Mexico may be interpreted as the result of a recent Pleistocene origin for these species. Speciation dates in Micropterus range from 1.01 ± 0.32 to 11.17 ± 1.02 million years ago. Only one speciation event is dated to the Pleistocene, and rates of diversification are not significantly variable in Micropterus. The premise that the Pleistocene was an exceptional period of speciation in Micropterus is not supported. Instead, a Gulf Coast allopatric speciation model is proposed, and predicts periods of dynamic speciation driven by sea level fluctuations in the Late Miocene and Pliocene. The Pleistocene, however, was a period of significant intraspecific mitochondrial lineage diversification. The application of the Gulf Coast allopatric speciation model to the remaining aquatic fauna of the Gulf of Mexico coast in North America will rely on robust phylogenetic hypotheses and accurate age estimations of speciation events.


Or try this one

https://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://scholar.google.com/scholar?start=10&q=smallmouth+bass+history+t+j+near&hl=en&as_sdt=0,25&httpsredir=1&article=1035&context=etdarchive

http://engagedscholarship.csuohio.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1035&context=etdarchive

Last edited by ewest; 01/22/22 05:31 PM.















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"There is quite a bit of history/writing on different populations of SMB. Not going to get into the question of if they are different strains/sub species/ possible future species etc! IMO adaptive populations is good enough. Best advice - don’t stock outside of the populations adaptive area."

That's exactly where I went with this, ewest. There are indeed other strains recognized and accepted and maybe it was for me more than anything else, but when I found our Black bass guru's in Meade, KS were looking for the same thing I was-them on a professional level, testing/researching for 14 years, me on the dummy level for 3 years, when I finally got to discuss with the hatchery techs what I had found and what I wanted, they confirmed what I was looking for was also what they have determined to be superior in a very wide area. Then they took it a step further and explained why, what the differences are and what that does for me.
This goes way back to the 50's in Kansas, the original stocking of what was considered "SMB generically". The 5 impoundments stocked have had a varying degree of success. In 1 res, eventually they mostly disappeared after about 20 years. The other 4 always had reproduction but relatively low numbers, probably partly due to being better LMB habitat than anything, but most of these 4 lakes have very good rocky type habitat of about 30% not including the Dam structures.
One of the reservoirs received a small stocking of 8-12" fish from Dale Hollow in a State trade in 1981. in 1989 the state record SMB of 3lbs 6ozs was blown away by a 6lb 11oz fish that was a Dale Hollow descendant.
On my fav res in NW KS, Dale Hollows were stocked 9 years ago-Just 70, 8-14" fish...in a 7000 ac impoundment.
Our samples are electrofishing at night in september, specifically for SMB. By-catch happens in WAE trap nets in spring and fall but the shocking efforts for many, many years averaged 11 per unit effort. Currently, the last 4 years have averaged 74 per UE with 2020 being the highest ever at 141 per UE.
My point here is the DNA has already shown these are different fish. The problem is some fish have been introduced where a similar strain already existed and now "most" DNA testing shows a more even spectrum(very diverse) from that of what is considered a mostly pure, recognizable DNA pattern
Most impoundment SMB in KS, MO, OK, AR have diversity in DNA, but there are still some areas withing these larger areas that still have true, river SMB such as the Ouachita strain (2lbs max average) or the most common Arkansas river strain (Neosho) which lives in both areas. Most fish suppliers have a strain very similar to this and most can't tell you what they have. Most believe a SMB is a SMB and that is just not the case.
I will find the hard copy of the Document I based my final decisions on (alongside advice from our hatchery biologists) and send that to you, ewest. It was finished in 2018 and I have it in my files at shop.
If I can get imgr to let me add a pic, I'll post a perfect example of this strain, one female I just added to spawning tank about 5pm tonight.

Last edited by Snipe; 01/23/22 02:42 AM.
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Last edited by esshup; 01/23/22 03:39 AM. Reason: fixed the picture
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Here is what I think is an Arkansas River Strain SMB.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


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I would agree based on what I can see of shape and color. I'm reminded often that color alone, or certain visual ques are great spots to make assumptions that get me in trouble. That Neosho strain is very consistent in visual ques though-not much variation at all, in very different surroundings even.
Looks fairly healthy though!

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Probably one of the most interesting patterns I've seen, Scott...

https://imgur.com/H8EhBF5

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Here's my buddy's boss with SMB that he caught in Michigan.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]


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Canada/Minn border SMB

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Last edited by ewest; 01/25/22 12:37 PM.















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Beautiful fish, all with their own unique molted patterns.. very nice guys! SMB porn..:-))


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