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anthropic,

What is the depth of your forage/grow-out pond at full pool?

I can't recall, but is there a chance that a big rain event would overflow your grow-out pool and wash crappie into your main pond?

Forum question, how deep would a hypothetical crappie grow-out pond need to be? (Based on summer needs, feeding needs, and keeping some fish over at least one winter. Whichever is the most water-depth intensive requirement.)

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Update on Structure

As recommended in the thread I’ve got some more denser cover added. What does everyone think? I’m sure I need more but this does feel like a good start.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

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anthropic - Actually this topic deserves its own thread. I think one could easily use a small FHM producer forage pond to grow out some HBCP to nice sizes either for restocking or table use harvesting. It would be a very good Pond Bosser fishery experiment. I think the pond would need to be drained and restocked every several years to eliminate any or all the F2 or F3 generation crappie and to see just how much hybrid crappie reproduction does occur. The details of this experiment would be very valuable and interesting information for the PB forum and for the story as publication in PBoss magazine. Before doing it I suggest that your talk to Bob Lusk because he might have suggestions to provide helpful hints for enhancing the project. IMO more documented, practical pond management science like this needs to be done by members of the forum. I hope you decide to "Get er Done"!

Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/09/22 01:50 PM.

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tyler - Very good start. Keep it growing. Now you are getting the idea for what minnow and small fish habitat is. I think you should also have another row or two rows of spiders between the buckets and the stone ledge. It needs one row anchored or planted right at the base of the stone ledge. See if you can regularly go to the local recycling center and hand pick containers that would serve as holders for your tubing. After visiting the plastic recycling bins it is amazing what can be created for free to hold and display your tubing. I find that 2.5 gallon jugs laid on their side with one side cut open and with a thin layer of cement in the base will nicely hold tubing spider legs. Structure experts say that if one can keep the base about 4"-6" off the bottom where fish can get under the base this makes better habitat especially when building log cribs. Consider creating some structure using some plastic snow fence. I will see if I can find a link for an example.

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Thank you Bill!

I’ll keep working on adding structure. My other question is if this structure is suitable for perch to spawn? Or do I need to add more for that ?

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That structure will be excellent for perch to drape their eggs. To make more spawning even more successful you could collect egg ribbons from tree branches placed temporally along the shoreline, remove the egg ribbons and place them on pipe of your artificial weed bed.
I hope you have seen the structure thread in the Common Pond Q& A Archives?? . See this one that shows a snow fence crib made by Brettski and posted by ewest It is just one of many ideas of snow fence habitat.

https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92463#Post92463
page 1 29/07/07 1:23pm.

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To reduce the cost of buying buckets one can use a bucket or similar basin such as a plastic dish pan as a plastic mold and pour about 2"-3" of cement with your pipes sticking out or have trimmed 1/2" - 1" dia tree branches sticking out. 1/2" - 1" dia hardwood tree branches would not decompose until about 8-10 years later. In the meantime you could create or develop new forms of structure to replace the wooden branches that were free. Look through the Structure ideas in the link to Archives Structure for examples.
https://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92463#Post92463

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I went through what I have and I do have a plastic skid and some milk crates. I'm thinking I can make something similar to what shows up in the structure thread. I'm thinking that should make some excellent forage structure as fish of a certain size won't be able to get inside of it. I'm thinking I could place that near the rock ledge like suggested above. I also love the idea of some more rip rap. I just need to source the rock!

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Intermixed broken concrete from construction sites will work just as effectively as various sizes of natural rocks. Contact some local concrete contractors for sources of waste concrete materials. Some might deliver it for free rather than pay to dispose of it. Lengthy sections of concrete pieces lining shoreline provide excellent habitat for spawning and refuge areas of FHM.

Edited by Esshup:
If adding the broken concrete, try to get pieces without rebar or mesh in them, that metal sticking out of the concrete is a fish line catching monster, and if anyone were to fall on that it's much more dangerous than falling on plain broken concrete.

Be aware that in fertile nutrient rich ponds filamentous algae can at times swamp all types of underwater structure. The FA masses flourish and die back based on season, water temperatures, and nutrient fluctuations. FA in itself serves as structure / habitat and allows production of lots of natural tiny foods such as invertebrates utilized by small fish.

Last edited by esshup; 01/11/22 10:51 AM. Reason: added info

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Originally Posted by FishinRod
anthropic,

What is the depth of your forage/grow-out pond at full pool?

I can't recall, but is there a chance that a big rain event would overflow your grow-out pool and wash crappie into your main pond?

Forum question, how deep would a hypothetical crappie grow-out pond need to be? (Based on summer needs, feeding needs, and keeping some fish over at least one winter. Whichever is the most water-depth intensive requirement.)

Rod, my grow-out pond is roughly 1/8 acre, max depth 8 or 9 feet. Not ideal for netting out fish, but it does connect to my main BOW & I can simply open sluice gate & drain it to there. The unusual depth proved my salvation during the arctic blast last winter, as my CNBG survived. I'm sure that would not be the case with 3 foot depths!

The upside to draining is that it gets all the fish out, few if any left. Also very easy, and helps a bit when main pond is low. The downside is that it can take months & months to refill, as no natural stream runs into it & watershed is meagre.

One interesting point re water temp in cold of winter or heat of summer is that it is snugly ensconced in relatively deep dirt on all sides.

Last edited by anthropic; 01/09/22 10:00 PM.

7ac, 2015 CNBG, RES, FHM; 2016 TP, FLMB. 2017 NLMB & GSH,L. 2018 TP & 70 HSB, PK. 2019 TP, RBT,. 2020 TFS,TP, 25 HSB & 250 F1,L,RBT, -206. 2021 TFS,TP, GSH,L,-312




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Originally Posted by Bill Cody
anthropic - Actually this topic deserves its own thread. I think one could easily use a small FHM producer forage pond to grow out some HBCP to nice sizes either for restocking or table use harvesting. It would be a very good Pond Bosser fishery experiment. I think the pond would need to be drained and restocked every several years to eliminate any or all the F2 or F3 generation crappie and to see just how much hybrid crappie reproduction does occur. The details of this experiment would be very valuable and interesting information for the PB forum and for the story as publication in PBoss magazine. Before doing it I suggest that your talk to Bob Lusk because he might have suggestions to provide helpful hints for enhancing the project. IMO more documented, practical pond management science like this needs to be done by members of the forum. I hope you decide to "Get er Done"!

Interesting idea, Bill. I'll take a look at it! Not normally a big crappie fan -- prefer firm fleshed BG to be honest -- but they add some diversity & fun for kids. Hybrids that won't take over pond rekindle my interest.


7ac, 2015 CNBG, RES, FHM; 2016 TP, FLMB. 2017 NLMB & GSH,L. 2018 TP & 70 HSB, PK. 2019 TP, RBT,. 2020 TFS,TP, 25 HSB & 250 F1,L,RBT, -206. 2021 TFS,TP, GSH,L,-312




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Great addition to the structure.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Originally Posted by tylerd1994
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Tyler,

Your spider army is coming along very nicely!

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That spider army will eat every jig that tries to swim through it for the next 50 years.

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As goes the habitat, so goes what lives in it. The fishery will become a consequence of what I call "Happy Water" and the best habitat. Your mission is to create habitat for the different sizes of the different species of fish you plan to manage. If you know what each species of fish need at their different life stages, you can mimic as much as that as possible. That's what everyone's advice above is basically telling you.

Even better news about your pond? If you get a few years down the road and you don't like where it's going, you can make major changes to fix it in one day. That's one of my favorite things about small ponds.


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Bill:

Let me know what posts you want moved (You can use the post number in the upper right corner of the post) and I'll move them to their own thread.


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Augie says
Quote
That spider army will eat every jig that tries to swim through it for the next 50 years.
'
I have always said that for relatively small ponds a 'large spider army' or a big thick area of weeds in a pond that make it or the area unfishable becomes a very good refuge and respite relief for the fish from over zealous anglers who fish the pond way to frequently. Too much angling in ponds and small lakes creates hook smart fish and very often too much harvest in public waters sportsmen's clubs, etc. .


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So I did put in a call with Steve at Shelby Fish Farms and at Brehms for Perch...

Brehms won't have any perch for this spring... a small chance they'll have some 2-3" ers

Shelby Fish Farms isn't stocking until April so I'll likely miss a spawn chance for perch. Also Steve said he isn't sure what he will get in, so we will have to see when we get to April.


That being said, I may need to adjust my plan:


Does anyone have any experience with fish from Freshwater Farms in Urbana, OH? They have some cheaper prices on HSB, and I haven't called them on RES or YP availability yet.

See below adjusted plan.. yell at me if you think it is stupid to add hybrid crappie before the HSB in the fall. I was just thinking adding them before predators would allow them to get above eating size, then stocking good size HSB in the fall would allow them to knock out the spawned fish the following spring easily. Lastly does anyone have good suggestions on IDing RES so that no mutt sunfish make it in the pond if I do go smaller than 4-6" do to availabilty?

Late Spring of 2022

50 Redear 4-6" (if available may have to go smaller)
20 YP 8-10" (if available may have to go smaller)
20 YP 4-6" (if avaible may have to go smaller)
40 YP 3-4"
50 Hybrid BCP (if I can get them from Hoosier)
5# FHM

Fall 2022
12 HSB 10-12" bumping up size to account for hybrid crappie spawn in spring of 2023
5# FHM
5# GSH

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Double check with them to make sure that their current prices are for 2022...... I have not dealt with them.

I was at Steves on Monday evening delivering 30,000 LMB fingerlings.


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